Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #7 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

[Plumeria5]

Also the bus driver coming to look for her shows it was probably unusual for her not to be there, so she probably did not take rides to school on any kind of a regular basis.

It also shows that the bus driver really cared about the students. I know it would be hard to do this but if there was a way for bus drivers to immediately report a child's failure to board the bus (and there have been many children abducted either before or just after leaving school bus stops) then parents could be alerted and could immediately report this to police.

 

[BeeBeeOh]

It also shows that the bus driver really cared about the students. I know it would be hard to do this but if there was a way for bus drivers to immediately report a child's failure to board the bus (and there have been many children abducted either before or just after leaving school bus stops) then parents could be alerted and could immediately report this to police.

Going against the grain here--- Its not the bus drivers job- a parent or adult that the family trusts should be putting their child on the bus... JMOO

 

[cluciano63]

Sierra was the only child who used this stop, wasn't she? So it would be easy for the driver to notice her not being there, obviously, and probably she thought she would meet up with her down the street...it certainly does seem as though someone was waiting for her in a car...only no way to know if it was someone she recognized and quickly agreed to accompany, or something else...

 

[Plumeria5]

Going against the grain here--- Its not the bus drivers job- a parent or adult that the family trusts should be putting their child on the bus... JMOO

I don't think it is about whose job it is...it is about the safety of children. School district employees work with parents to insure a child's well-being. Those that really care will go far beyond the call of duty. I have been an educator since 1976.

 

[BeeBeeOh]

I appreciate your opinion as an educator, and I know I go against most of my peers when I say things like that. The discussion is a valid one but won't help this case. I should have not offered up that opinion as a response and I am apologizing for that, here.

I do agree that if she was the only one on that stop, she is hard to miss, especially if she was a regular rider. Any chance the bus driver was late and that neighbor that the dogs were interested in offered to drop her off????? he could time his exit with hers perfectly----

 

[Plumeria5]

I appreciate your opinion as an educator, and I know I go against most of my peers when I say things like that. The discussion is a valid one but won't help this case. I should have not offered up that opinion as a response and I am apologizing for that, here.

I do agree that if she was the only one on that stop, she is hard to miss, especially if she was a regular rider. Any chance the bus driver was late and that neighbor that the dogs were interested in offered to drop her off????? he could time his exit with hers perfectly----

I understand your point. In a perfect world every child would be accompanied to and from school or the bus stop.

This is O/T but seems relevant at the moment. I was at a department store on Saturday. It was packed. An adorable little girl in a little white dress, I'm guessing around 3 years old, was sweeping the aisle. I watched her for a few minutes and saw no adult with her. I was not going to leave her alone. Images of Adam Walsh came to mind. I asked where her mommy was and she shrugged her shoulders. She had stacked all of the brooms across the shelves so that they completely blocked the aisle. That had to have taken her some time. I found an employee and she did an all call. It took Grandma a good 5 minutes to claim her granddaughter. This sweet little girl could have been snatched up in a second and taken out that door.

 

[krkrjx]

I wonder how many cars go in and out of that area between 7:15 and 7:25 each morning. I believe Marlene stated the bus usually arrived at the stop at 7:25. If the driver drove toward Sierra's house, she could have seen vehicles coming toward her on their way out. One might have been the vehicle Sierra was in...or the bus driver could have missed a vehicle Sierra was in by a minute, or even less.

If there was only one or two cars, the bus driver might have noticed them. If there was a lot of traffic she would likely not single any one vehicle out. OTOH, if there was a lot of traffic, it seems as though someone would have seen something--such as Sierra walking or getting into a car...

Makes me wonder if the bus driver may have given the "white car" description to LE.

 

[shana]

I may have posted this way upthread...

If you listen to a recent WS radio show, you will hear that even Marc Klaas used the past tense when describing Sierra, then caught himself and apologized.

It happens. It does not necessarily mean anything at all.

~fwiw/jmo~

 

[Plumeria5]

This was my first time seeing this so hopefully not all have you have read this yet.

http://theklaasact.blogspot.com/2012/04/sierra-lamar-anatomy-of-search.html

The 2nd kidnapping/rape, albeit 1999, was just 13 miles from Morgan Hill in Gilroy.

 

[Thirteen]

As for the sheriff's comments on Nancy Grace, my personal opinion is that the sheriff was being cagey with NG. No matter what someone's opinion of NG as a person, I think everyone can agree that she is highly tenacious and will jump on a tiny detail repeatedly to try to get more information.

I think that sheriff was more forthcoming and less on guard in the earlier press conferences.

I think it all comes down to misinformation or reporters like NG jumping on any little detail like you say. I researched back in the reporting of this case and the first mention of the scent going cold at the end of the driveway was by a reporter and not LE.

Link

The article they do the next day is also full of misinformation. Sierras mother has also pointed this out while on the NG show etc... For instance Sierra didn't leave for school at 6am. I would want a LE official or an FBI official to state they believe the scent went cold at the end of the driveway before I would believe it (not due to weather conditions). I think the Sheriff said all that could be said, we got a scent walking out of the home and then nothing.

This is my last thought on the case and thats my last take on it. It is very apparent to me that incorrect information was reported from day one and now people are taking it as fact. Anyhow I appreciate your time and expertise. I am hoping my theory is wrong and she is a runaway and comes home soon.

 

[nao]

When i was 17 i went for an unwanted ride. It was about 7pm, downtown, lots of traffic, light pedestrian traffic,street lights. It was someone i new and was wary of, so i would'nt go up to the car window, so he opened the passenger door a bit and i was standing at the edge of that but my head and body bent forward so i could converse. I figure i was a safe distance, my long hair was my downfall, he grabbed that and stuck a gun up my nose, i became very obediant, next minute we're driving away.

It took seconds for the situation to turn bad and us to be mobile. Nobody noticed it was that quick. I would of jumped back if he'd grabbed clothing but the long hair, i could'nt get loose. I notice from Plumaria5 post #109 link all the girls have long hair. Someone could just stop and ask for directions and things can go bad in just a moment.

If you notice when you see store holdups on cctv's most people when they see a gun most people freeze up and become obediant. Thats what i remember thinking, oooh gun. Its like be hypnotized, a gun is a very powerfull weapon even mentally.

Someone could just stop and ask for directions, sometimes theres no time to think or react. Not saying i think thats what happened, but i do know it only takes seconds.
Somebody must of noticed when we went down a deadend road into some vacant lots because the police showed up, lucky me, very lucky.

 

[GrainneDhu]

When i was 17 i went for an unwanted ride. It was about 7pm, downtown, lots of traffic, light pedestrian traffic,street lights. It was someone i new and was wary of, so i would'nt go up to the car window, so he opened the passenger door a bit and i was standing at the edge of that but my head and body bent forward so i could converse. I figure i was a safe distance, my long hair was my downfall, he grabbed that and stuck a gun up my nose, i became very obediant, next minute we're driving away.

It took seconds for the situation to turn bad and us to be mobile. Nobody noticed it was that quick. I would of jumped back if he'd grabbed clothing but the long hair, i could'nt get loose. I notice from Plumaria5 post #109 link all the girls have long hair. Someone could just stop and ask for directions and things can go bad in just a moment.

If you notice when you see store holdups on cctv's most people when they see a gun most people freeze up and become obediant. Thats what i remember thinking, oooh gun. Its like be hypnotized, a gun is a very powerfull weapon even mentally.

Someone could just stop and ask for directions, sometimes theres no time to think or react. Not saying i think thats what happened, but i do know it only takes seconds.
Somebody must of noticed when we went down a deadend road into some vacant lots because the police showed up, lucky me, very lucky.

O.M.G.

I am so sorry you went through that and so glad that it ended where it did.

I went to a police demo years ago where they demonstrated how fast a person could disappear into a car. The volunteer was wearing a windbreaker, the "bad guy" (actually a police officer) pulled up next to her, told her he was looking for an address, could she help? After trying to give him verbal directions, he pulled out a map (this was before GPS!) and said "here, can you show me on the map?"

Even though the volunteer knew right from the start that he was going to try to grab her and that her job was to act naturally (ie, not run off screaming as soon as he slowed down) but to keep from being taken, she was *still* fooled. She said afterwards that she got so caught up in giving him directions, etc, that she just forgot for a second that he was actually trying to lure her closer.

I was watching and honestly didn't see much of what happened. It just took a flash and she was gone!

The "bad guy" explained afterwards that he grabbed the volunteer by the neck of her windbreaker and just pulled her in, kind of threw her onto the passenger seat and showed her his gun.

It was just an ordinary four door car and the driver's side window wasn't that large. Before that demo, I would have thought that an average adult could probably fit through the window with a lot of wiggling and effort but the demo showed that it really didn't take more than a second. It was almost like she'd been sucked into a giant vacuum cleaner.

I think many people over-estimate the difficulty of forcing someone into a vehicle. It really can happen in just a second or two.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

Morning everyone!
I've been following, but am not sure if this was brought up.
For those that followed the Caylee Anthony case, a pair of scientists were brought in who work on "touch DNA" and were the ones who said that in the JonBenet Ramsay case that someone elses DNA was found on her clothes using this process.
IMO, whether we believe their findings or not, this would be a perfect case to use it on.
The purse and clothes were found relatively quickly....the clothes being INSIDE the purse and most likely NOT exposed to the elements.
Again, IMO, IF the perp folded and put the clothes in the purse, and IF they were using some sort of gloves to hide their finger prints during the actual abduction, chances are, again, IMO, they could have taken the gloves off to fold the clothes and place them in the bag because they were difficult to handle with the gloves on, and didn't think their FINGER PRINTS would be found, BUT didn't even THINK about their DNA.

Again, all just IMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree Oceanblueeyes, but WHY dump the clothing there at all? Why dump the bag/purse??? If I was a predator who had just kidnapped a local teenager, I would NOT dump her purse with CLOTHING anywhere NEAR to where I took her! I would burn it in my oven, or cut it into pieces and put it in the toilet.... etc. etc.... If I were a YOUNG, person who was fixated on SL, and I finally acted on the emotions/passions that had been building for a while, I might try to "hide" the evidence close to where the act occurred. I guess I am just feeling someone YOUNG and inexperienced. I don't think this was totally random, but I don't believe it was anyone that Sierra herself would have seen as capable of this act.

I hope those who are planning on committing murders dont read here because they may get some great ideas how to cover up evidence. LOL! Just kidding. We all like to think the perp is crafty and smart and wouldnt do this or that but thank goodness for reasons known only to them...they can and do make mistakes and that is why most of them get caught.

Wasnt the purse found about 2 miles away from where she disappeared? Maybe to the perp that is a long way away from the abduction scene. And you are certainly right this could be a rather young inexperience abductor. For some reason I dont think they are in their teens but not old...maybe in their 20s or early 30s. Just guessing. Even though Clint Van Zant seems to think this person has done this before it could be his first violent crime...we just dont know.

I do agree that Sierra could have been randomly chosen and they do not have to know Sierra but just saw an opportunity to seize a pretty young girl who was alone when no one else was around to see or hear a thing. One thing that does bother me though is that particular day the farm workers werent working the fields close to Sierra. That makes me wonder if that day was chosen as the day to abduct her.

I feel it is someone that lives or works in Morgan Hill area and is familiar with all the back roads around the area.

IMO

 

[ozazure]

If the perp does not have privacy or time to destroy evidence, and is confident s/he has nothing to worry about on the bag, it matters little where they leave it except to not have a witness. If they are not from the area it makes more sense to keep all known spots close by, to not betray a direction they took Sierra or headed home. I believe if deceased, Sierra will be somewhere her bag couldn't be kept with her - like water.

 

[TxLady2]

I understand about furbabies. I have lots/had lots, but I do have children.

Let me tell you about what a missing family told me when I was boots on the ground looking for their child. They used "past tense" when referring to their little man. They told me ... they cannot hear him making a racket, they cannot smell him any longer, they cannot touch him anymore, they cannot see him anymore ... he was just GONE and they spoke of him in the past because their memory of him was in the past tense. All their "memories" were from the past, because in the PRESENT ... he just disappeared and left them with what was and what could have been. I guess I've never been a fan of this past tense B.S. from my own personal experience with a little guy that has never been found.

Bed now. Take care.

Great post! I feel the same way, I don't put much stock into what tense a parent speaks about their child in when said child goes missing. When one is very distraught, they are not thinking about things like that. I've also heard people speak of a dead person in the present tense as well, so being grammatically correct is the least of her worries at this point. I know a lot of these so-called analysts use this as their basis for thinking someone is lying, but it's total B.S., in my opinion.

 

[MonkeyMae]

This is the first I read about dogs possibly hitting on her scent at a neighbors. Without accusing and knowing no facts..would this neighbors house be in a position where he could have gone to her door and met her and somehow get SL into his home without drawing too much attention? Had other neighbors already left for work or still been sleeping? A neighbor would be someone who would def. see the comings and goings and would also know the field workers were in another field. It would also be quite unlikely for a neighbor to retain any of her belongings and may find dumping them more appealing than burning them in the backyard. Of course the cellphone wouldn't fit into this scenerio..idk just thinking out loud.

 

[TxLady2]

I also wish we knew more about Marlene before this happened.

For instance, is she a nervous smiler or nervous laugher?

We do know she's an occupational therapist. Having had a lot of occupational therapy after I became disabled, I know all of my OTs were very cheerful, very upbeat. It's part of their job, really, because they're encouraging people to do stuff that is suddenly difficult and even scary. An OT who is a Debbie Downer would not get results, strictly in my humble opinion.

So is Marlene relying on a professional skill to keep her from just falling apart in public?

So many questions and so little data.

Good points.
I know from experience with very stressful situations that you cannot possibly maintain a solemn or sad demeanor for hours or days, your emotions run wild, and your reaction to comments or behavior of other people can be unusual. You can become angry at little things that normally you would pay no attention to. You can also smile and even laugh at things that seem very strange to other people. It is very, very difficult to look and act normal when you are so distraught, or scared or in dread of what you're going to have to face. With that said, a big smile is not an indication of guilt, or knowing someone you love is guilty and not ready to accept it. It's just that... a smile.
I know there are some that think they would never smile again if this was their child, but they would be wrong. Your mind is a very complicated thing and sometimes you just have no control over it.

 

[TxLady2]

When i was 17 i went for an unwanted ride. It was about 7pm, downtown, lots of traffic, light pedestrian traffic,street lights. It was someone i new and was wary of, so i would'nt go up to the car window, so he opened the passenger door a bit and i was standing at the edge of that but my head and body bent forward so i could converse. I figure i was a safe distance, my long hair was my downfall, he grabbed that and stuck a gun up my nose, i became very obediant, next minute we're driving away.

It took seconds for the situation to turn bad and us to be mobile. Nobody noticed it was that quick. I would of jumped back if he'd grabbed clothing but the long hair, i could'nt get loose. I notice from Plumaria5 post #109 link all the girls have long hair. Someone could just stop and ask for directions and things can go bad in just a moment.

If you notice when you see store holdups on cctv's most people when they see a gun most people freeze up and become obediant. Thats what i remember thinking, oooh gun. Its like be hypnotized, a gun is a very powerfull weapon even mentally.

Someone could just stop and ask for directions, sometimes theres no time to think or react. Not saying i think thats what happened, but i do know it only takes seconds.
Somebody must of noticed when we went down a deadend road into some vacant lots because the police showed up, lucky me, very lucky.

Thanks for sharing, it must have been very frightening for you. I'm glad that it turned out well, and someone was paying attention.

Most people don't think about how quickly this can happen, it only takes seconds. Teenagers think they are invincible and they don't have enough fear of strangers. A predator can think up hundreds of ways to approach kids, young women, and even young men, and if one method doesn't work, they'll think of something else.

Again, I am so glad this experience had a good ending for you.

 

[Lovebug]

Wow, thanks Elphie for that piece of info on the driver actually going to check on Sierra. That definitely, in my mind anyways, rules out a few possibilities. If the driver was that concerned, obviously Sierra was very consistent with taking the bus AND being on time. I know Marlene said Sierra rushed a lot in the morning but based on the drivers actions it seems that Sierra was there on time every morning. To me, that rules out an acquaintance giving her a ride to school in the past few weeks.

This case just really confuses me. I still think that the clothes were packed by Sierra. I said it many many posts ago and I read someone else suggest it... I think it could have been because it was that time of the month. I think it is entirely possible that Sierra could have folded the clothes neatly so that her extra pair of underwear was not directly visible if she needed to get into her bag at school. I've done this several times. I'd fold the the underwear either inside the jeans or underneath them so that they weren't visible. Sometimes my friends (both boys and girls) would take my bag and look inside as a joke... kind of like "What do you have in here?" type thing and I didn't want them to see the underwear that I packed. Also explains why her shoes were not present with the clothing and the bag. I doubt that the perp took Sierra, stripped off her clothing, and kept the shoes while he/they left everything else of Sierra's (bag, clothing, books) at one location.

The info of the bag being wedged between a building and a cactus seems pretty deliberate to me. That perp has got some lucky aim if not. I think the phone was thrown right after the abduction. No question about that in my opinion. It is well known that LE can use cell phones to track activity and for obvious reasons they did not want Sierra anywhere near a device that could supply her with rescue. The bag is somewhat puzzling. In my gut I just feel that everything was ditched as the perp left the area. I don't know HOW with Sierra being in the vehicle but I've seen many cases though where victims just freeze, are paralyzed with fear. He could have told Sierra to stay in the car and not move... obviously she knew that he knew where she lived. The Elizabeth Smart cases rings a bell when it comes to this... she was in a room FULL of people and did not speak up or say anything. She was in the midst of rescue and yet she remained silent. I don't think Sierra made it to the bus stop. I think the dogs were accurate. I think the abduction took place right by the home. Perps are risk takers... the desire they have outweighs rational thinking.

Also random thought... Sierra is a chameleon. Every time I see a new picture of her she looks different. She truly is one of the most beautiful girls I've ever seen and it breaks my heart to see her missing. I pray and pray that she is found alive and well. I think that Sierra gave off an image and that deep down she was just a 15 year-old girl with a soul that was searching for something more meaningful. I think that this case, hopefully if/when it is solved, will be a case that is quite simple. I see the explanations for the bag and the phone being very straight forward. He abducted her, threw phone, threatened Sierra with harm to her and her family, ditched her bag, left the area. Unfortunately, perps are lucky and in this case the perp was lucky. We will find him/them though. I have faith that we will.