Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #7 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

[liltexans]

Danielle LaMar, a senior at Sacramento State, has been driving home to Morgan Hill every weekend since her sister's disappearance. She said she was grateful for the distraction offered by class work, a sentiment echoed by her father, who returned to work last week.
Asked what she might say to Sierra or anyone who might be holding her against her will, Danielle Lamar said:
"If somebody has her I'd just say, 'Find it in your heart to let her come home. So many people love her; she's so young and has so much to do with her life.' "
And to Sierra, she would add: "Stay strong. And when you do come home, nobody's going to be mad. Nothing else matters."

http://www.mercurynews.com/fremont/ci_20347755/family-sierra-lamar-announces-10-000-reward-49ers

 

[LisaB]

Interesting (though somewhat OT) article...

"There is no clear profile of a rapist, (Dr. Koss) says; no class, cultural, or racial identity that might warn a woman away from a man. “Despite stereotypes about rape being mostly a lower-class phenomenon,” she says, “rape is not a ‘not-us’ problem.”

Although there are no definitive predictors, Dr. Koss says, there are indicators. “The most dangerous men are the most traditional ones, with the most rigid gender role beliefs,” she says. “They don’t acknowledge characteristics in themselves that are considered feminine, like compassion and empathy. That removes barriers to committing sexual assault. And the only way to identify these guys is to talk—and especially, to listen—to them.”

The most significant contributing factor of all, Dr. Koss and most experts agree, is an abusive family background. “Although there are more men who grow up in violent homes and don’t become abusers than men who do, we know that exposure to violence and abuse in the home is a major predictor of every form of violence, including sexual assault.”

http://www.more.com/news/womens-issues/what-makes-rapist

 

[liz b.]

The bus drivers in that school district have the addresses of the kids ? Have a friend who drives a school bus here in Seattle. She does not have any addresses, and can actually get put on suspension if she deliberately goes off route.... MOO

 

[LisaB]

In thread #6,

Dee226 said
The (car) photo was tweeted from Sierra's friend to their other friends after she met with a private investigator. I don't know what photo is being circulated now but i saw the photo the friend tweeted. Another one was asking friends about it then she quickly deleted it.

MOO: The car is being investigated in relation to the comments Sierra had made about someone in a car harassing/annoying her, and may or may not be related to the disappearance. I think this is a good lead to follow up on, even if only for purposes of elimination.

nutkin said:
Teens are very easy to fool. In fact, most adults are as well. The internet is a place where anyone can be anybody they want to be and there are very few ways to easily find out the truth. Most teenagers are too eager to allow people they think they know into their lives. All they have to do is post a picture with a sports uniform or mention the school they go to and anyone can easily find them.

MOO: When my checkbook was stolen, I went to the stores where the thieves used them to view video footage. I eventually tracked them down, but the main clues I had to go on were the varsity jackets the two males were wearing in the store, a good shot of the vehicle in the parking lot in which the suspects left, and after enhancement, the license plate number as it drove away. Since I could not run the plates, I used the unique characteristics of the car (unusual trim, but obviously not custom) to ID the make, model, and year. In the end, I found the perps, and provided the police with their home addresses and one of their names and work phone numbers.

cluciano63 said:
I can't figure this out at all...why not put it in the trunk, if the driver was worried about a possible roadblock...I mean if he had Sierra hidden, why not hide her things as well?

MOO: Suppose she DID struggle as she was placed in the trunk. I am assuming her phone was tossed out pretty quickly and she began to struggle. Confining her to the trunk would seem a good way to conceal her from passersby, show her who was "in control" and to keep her from grabbing the wheel, scratching, or kicking him. After the ordeal of getting her into the trunk is over, he finds that the purse is either near the car where she dropped it while fighting being confined in the trunk, or in the car. He knows that if he opens the trunk again, she will continue to fight and try to get away, so putting the purse in there with her at this point is not something he wants to do.

imkeylime said:
I feel that tests to prove whether the clothes had been worn or not shouldn't take this long to complete.

MOO: My daughter would try on several items before deciding what to wear. Sometimes she'd wear stuff out of the laundry hamper if she wanted a particular item and it "seemed clean enough". Some girls wear a bra more than one time between washings (though likely not panties). So it might be risky for LE to say she had worn the clothes, if they can not be sure WHEN she wore the clothes. If it was the "second day" on the bra and jeans, and she'd tried on the shirt (as the photo she posted suggests) she might have gotten deodorant in the armpits or cologne or hairspray on it. The possibility that they were worn, but NOT on March 16th, is a consideration.

cluciano63 said:
I can't see a female perp or accomplice hiding the bag for later-why hide it at all? Just stick it under the seat of the car or in the trunk, if you want to keep it-no one was "after them".

MOO: If the male/s (or other female/s) involved told her just to get rid of it, she may have decided she wanted it and planned to go back to get it later on. If he objected to her keeeping it, and she had any fear for her own safety, she might not have argued about it, just stashed it for later.

 

[cluciano63]

I am wondering about Sierra's purse vs. Holly's lunch bag...were they left behind to detract from where each girl could actually be found? Or for some other reason? Will we ever know?

 

[LisaB]

IF she was going to "blow the joint" wouldn't she take more that a Juicy bag and school books? IF no one knew where they were driving to, then I'd take more than that. I've heard nothing of mucho items taken from Sierra's room. JMO. I just don't see this as a possibility, but that's JMO.

Honestly, if my daughter "ran away", she could stuff a hockey bag with clothes and I'd never notice anything missing. She could have taken half of her makeup and would still have so much in the bathroom that I'd assume she had not. She has dozens of pair of shoes, and one or two pair would never be missed. I can't say FOR SURE that Sierra did NOT have a second bag, but it is unlikely that she did, or that she planned to run off.

In the last thread I asked about the shoes. NAMUS shows she left in grey shoes, but lists NONE of the other things she had on. Since we were initially led to believe she was in her red Converse sneakers, I assume they were located at home. But how was it determined that the grey ones were actually on her feet when she walked out the door?

 

[LisaB]

Actually LE said it had been searched twice prior. Then Klaas I believe said it had been searched 5 times prior so I don't know. I think Ill go with LE on that one. Finding a handcuff box next to a possible abduction location though? I would have been all over it like white on rice. That would have went straight to the FBI lab and Id be asking anyone around that immediate area if they had seen any cars on that road lurking. Also remember searching might mean "we drove through looking for a body". What kind of search was it? IMO you don't search an area 5 times. You might search it twice. The MSM reports just aren't adding up on it.

IIRC, Marc Klaas indicated these items were found by a lone searcher. It was not clear if this was one person on their own private mission, or someone from the organized search who wandered away from their search party. But I believe he stated that there was no witness to the searcher finding the items, and they appeared unweathered and in a previously searched area, so I sensed some skepticism in his part as far as connecting them to Sierra's abduction.

 

[LisaB]

OT (and out of the area)

This morning on my way to work I passed an area where there is a junkyard and some warehouses and really ugly commercial buildings. Inside a (chain link) fenced area, I noticed smoke so I looked closer. There were at least half a dozen large dumpsters and some smaller barrels. The smoke was coming from one of the barrels and appeared to be isolated to that area, so I did not immediately call 911.

As I passed, I looked over and saw a man standing by the barrel. He was holding a red, 3 gallon gas can. Nearby was a brand new looking bright blue and white sport bike (maybe a Buell?). The man did not appear to be dressed in anything other than street clothes. He may have had the helmet on, as I can not describe HIM at all beyond the physique being that of a man. But I made a "mental note" of what I COULD remember in case it turns out to be significant to something I hear about later on.

Maybe I should have called someone right away. It was before 8am, so the local businesses were closed, and a motorcycle might have been able to get into the area through a space a car would not fit. This person could have been burning "evidence" of something, since I don't know many bikers who carry a gas can (although I am sure some do). All in all, his behavior was unusual.

 

[JTribley]

OT (and out of the area)

This morning on my way to work I passed an area where there is a junkyard and some warehouses and really ugly commercial buildings. Inside a (chain link) fenced area, I noticed smoke so I looked closer. There were at least half a dozen large dumpsters and some smaller barrels. The smoke was coming from one of the barrels and appeared to be isolated to that area, so I did not immediately call 911.

As I passed, I looked over and saw a man standing by the barrel. He was holding a red, 3 gallon gas can. Nearby was a brand new looking bright blue and white sport bike (maybe a Buell?). The man did not appear to be dressed in anything other than street clothes. He may have had the helmet on, as I can not describe HIM at all beyond the physique being that of a man. But I made a "mental note" of what I COULD remember in case it turns out to be significant to something I hear about later on.

Maybe I should have called someone right away. It was before 8am, so the local businesses were closed, and a motorcycle might have been able to get into the area through a space a car would not fit. This person could have been burning "evidence" of something, since I don't know many bikers who carry a gas can (although I am sure some do). All in all, his behavior was unusual.

LisaB, please report this! It's very unusual and suspicious...you just never know.

 

[LisaB]

Yes, I see her being abducted walking but I am putting trust into some of the experts in the forums, especially the dog handlers on this one. From what I have seen so far they all seem to be pretty confident that the dogs didn't error. I mentioned this earlier and wonder if she would have cut through the back to get to her bus stop but I'm sure if she made a habit of that someone would have known or there would be a foot path that LE would have seen.

I have absolute faith in the dogs. HOWEVER, we were originally led to believe that her trail stopped at the STREET end of the driveway, while the statements on NG seemed to suggest that it was at the "house end" of the driveway that her trail went cold. So the DOGS may have it right, but the PEOPLE aren't reporting it accurately.

If the trail stopped at the OTHER end of the drive, that is to say, nearer the house, would that change the scenario significantly?

IMO, YES!

 

[nursebeeme]

I have absolute faith in the dogs. HOWEVER, we were originally led to believe that her trail stopped at the STREET end of the driveway, while the statements on NG seemed to suggest that it was at the "house end" of the driveway that her trail went cold. So the DOGS may have it right, but the PEOPLE aren't reporting it accurately.

If the trail stopped at the OTHER end of the drive, that is to say, nearer the house, would that change the scenario significantly?

IMO, YES!

bbm: that (the people aren't reporting things accurately or completely):moo:

 

[LisaB]

That is EXACTLY what happened!! Someone didn't know the meaning of the word "secrete" used in the context of the purse being not openly lying in the road, etc. For whatever reason, the rumor took off like wildfire!! URINE on the clothes!!! I was useless to try and correct the misinformation. :banghead:

I get what everyone is saying here, but if I was the "dummy" who did not understand that "secreted" had nothing to do with bodily secretions, I would have been more likely to ask about semen or vaginal secretions than urine. I don't really categorize urine or feces as "secretions" and considering the presumption that this was a sexually motivated crime, "sexual" secretions would seem more likely to be found unless the person asking was basing the question on the statements by Jaycee Dugard that she urinated when the Garrido's used the stun gun on her.

 

[liltexans]

I get what everyone is saying here, but if I was the "dummy" who did not understand that "secreted" had nothing to do with bodily secretions, I would have been more likely to ask about semen or vaginbal secretions than urine. I don't really categorize urine or feces as "secretions" and considering the presumption that this was a sexually motivated crime, "sexual" secretions would seem more likely to be found unless the person asking was basing the question on the statements by Jaycee Dugard that she urinated when the Garrido's used the stun gun on her.

I agree, I would never associate the word "secrete" with "urinate", but I thought maybe it was just me. I think the reporter (or whoever it was) who asked the question about urine had heard something from some other source and was trying to confirm the information with LE.

 

[OldSteve]

It's interesting how each case has something that distinguishes it - Holly Bobo's has the cameo man, cellphone, and lunch box.... Lauren Spierer has more POI's then you can shake a stick at and of her walking without shoes...
Sierra's case is unique in that I've never heard of a case in which a perp tosses or leaves a large purse that has the victim's underwear in it. It's strange... I can understand quickly getting rid of the bag for fear it might have something inside it like another cellphone, but it appears the perp either had no interest in looking inside it for trophies, or the perp did look and didn't care, or did look and purposely left it as some sort of bizarre message.

 

[JDB]

Thank you for the welcome!

I just wanted to comment on a couple things. When I was at the search for Sierra, I heard that Sierra never folds or packs her clothes neatly. I know that the NG show caused some confusion with the transcript being different from what Marlene actually said. I also heard that the bus driver waited at the bus stop for Sierra and when she didn't show up, the driver went by her house to see if she was just late coming out.

I spoke to Marlene and she did use the past tense when speaking of Sierra, but she would also talk about when Sierra comes home. It seemed to me that she didn't even realize she was using the past tense. I feel bad for Marlene. I can't even image not knowing what has happened to her daughter or where she is for over three weeks. I am amazed she is able to cope at all.

You know on Saturday I heard a lot of things said. But until I hear them out of either the LE or someone close to the case I am considering what I heard as just rumorsI have not seen anything saying that the bus driver went to the house checking on Sierra not saying the did not. But we have to be careful people have a way of takig a simple thing and next thing we have is a game of telephone if you all know what I mean.:fence:

 

[LisaB]

...snip... most people just aren't that observant. ...snip... I think the truth is that most people are so busy thinking about what they're doing or what they're supposed to do next, etc, that although they may see something they don't really process it with the thinking part of their brain.

I believe that predators see this normal level of distraction, understand it and use it in ways that most normal people simply do not.

My pastor went to a week-long conference in Hawaii with his wife. Her bags arrived, his were said to be "on the way". For six days he wore the same khakis and polo shirt to every seminar, to every meal, to every activity. The last day, his bag arrived. He went to the last event and had occasion to speak. He thanked everyone for not having made any comments about the clothing he wore all week, explaining that his bag had been lost, and that he had been quite self-conscious about his attire, and WAITING for someone to criticize or at least ask him about it but nobody did. He felt they were all being very "Christian" toward him, but later was approached by several participants who had seen him every day of the week who stated they just had not noticed he was in the same clothing every day or they would have offered to loan him other items.

People are ususally so worried about how THEY look that they do not notice what someone else is wearing unless it is really odd. I have a coworker who occasionally discontinues a medication prescribed to him. We all know when he does so, because he appears at work in yellow and orange rumpled attire at these times. Otherwise (say, if he wore the same shirt, tie and suit all week) nobody would blink.

 

[liz b.]

It's interesting how each case has something that distinguishes it - Holly Bobo's has the cameo man, cellphone, and lunch box.... Lauren Spierer has more POI's then you can shake a stick at and of her walking without shoes...
Sierra's case is unique in that I've never heard of a case in which a perp tosses or leaves a large purse that has the victim's underwear in it. It's strange... I can understand quickly getting rid of the bag for fear it might have something inside it like another cellphone, but it appears the perp either had no interest in looking inside it for trophies, or the perp did look and didn't care, or did look and purposely left it as some sort of bizarre message.

Purposely left it as a message...MOO

 

[LisaB]

BBM

Elphie, welcome to WS!

The part I bolded says to me that Sierra must have been a *very* regular bus rider or the driver would not have bothered swinging by her house. If Sierra was skipping the bus frequently, the bus driver would have just shrugged and driven on.

I do not know how many kids rode her bus, or how well the driver knew them, but if she was aware that Sierra's "parents" both worked an hour away and she was the child's ONLY way to get to school, she might have done this out of the goodness of her heart, especially if she was running a little ahead of schedule.

 

[Eileen730]

The bus drivers in that school district have the addresses of the kids ? Have a friend who drives a school bus here in Seattle. She does not have any addresses, and can actually get put on suspension if she deliberately goes off route.... MOO

I dont believe they are allowed address of the students!
And they can wait at the bus stop or maybe another street but they cant go off their routes.

They wont even stop a block closer than the designated stop! lol

 

[concentric]

Re: the purse

Well, here's an outlandish theory:

After the perp(s) have her in the vehicle (the phone has already been wrested from her) and she is secured and at gunpoint, or knifepoint, so quiet, on the floorboard? but still being able to hear. The perp(s) toss the phone out of the window, not only to get rid of evidence, but to show her that they are in control. Next, the perp(s) reach for the couture bag, and say that it too will be disposed of in short order, unless...she cooperates. So the perp(s) use the bag as a bargaining chip to get her to be compliant. They may have even had her peek up through the window to see where the bag is placed and say: See, we know where it is. If you want that back, you do what we tell you. (Only using the plural "they" for expediency in posting, and not that I believe it was more than one perp.)