Cadaver Dogs, Search Dogs, K9 Units

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Theonly1 said:
Actually, I think Gerus was successful! How could he have found (within the limits of his leash) what was not there (i.e., Caylee's body)? He alerted to decomp in the trunk, where lab results later confirm there was evidence of decomp fluids. The dogs are not trained to pick up items but to "alert" which he did.

Could he have pulled wildly at his leash or, if off leash, took off running towards Suburban? I guess he could have but we have no evidence to know Gerus as an air scenting dog. I also assume Casey took Caylee to Surburban via her Sunfire (and not on foot) so what scent trail would there be to follow? I think Gerus was not an air scenting dog (but ground scenting) so he would not have been the type to take off down the street like a bloodhound.

Now, had they taken Gerus to Suburban and he failed to locate the remains then I would agree with you.
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Well, I'm not blaming the poor dog - perhaps they should have taken him down to Suburban!

But the "decomposition" in the trunk is just a smell and the evidence from the body farm may not be admitted. There is no blood or DNA in the trunk in the documents so far. I believe the police recognise the decomposition smell & the FBI said to George "We know what it smells like, we just want to know whether you do" and he agreed. But I don't think it is enough evidence to convict her for Murder 1.
 
Theonly1 said:
Actually, I think Gerus was successful! How could he have found (within the limits of his leash) what was not there (i.e., Caylee's body)? He alerted to decomp in the trunk, where lab results later confirm there was evidence of decomp fluids. The dogs are not trained to pick up items but to "alert" which he did.

Could he have pulled wildly at his leash or, if off leash, took off running towards Suburban? I guess he could have but we have no evidence to know Gerus as an air scenting dog. I also assume Casey took Caylee to Surburban via her Sunfire (and not on foot) so what scent trail would there be to follow? I think Gerus was not an air scenting dog (but ground scenting) so he would not have been the type to take off down the street like a bloodhound.

Now, had they taken Gerus to Suburban and he failed to locate the remains then I would agree with you.
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Gerus hit on the car when it was taken to the forensic garage. It is in the 400 pages doc dump that was released early on.
 
InspectorGadget said:
Well, I'm not blaming the poor dog - perhaps they should have taken him down to Suburban!

But the "decomposition" in the trunk is just a smell and the evidence from the body farm may not be admitted. There is no blood or DNA in the trunk in the documents so far. I believe the police recognise the decomposition smell & the FBI said to George "We know what it smells like, we just want to know whether you do" and he agreed. But I don't think it is enough evidence to convict her for Murder 1.
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No, that is not what happened. Search my posts and you'll find links to each and every one of George's statements regarding him smelling decomp in the car, exactly what he said, when he said it, to whom, and the context.

No need to guess at it.
 
Thanks BeanE

To quote what was said specifically that makes me believe that the police & FBI recognise the decomposition smell and that is what they believe is the smell in the car:

In the context of the smell in the trunk versus trash/pizza:

GA: Oh this was a totally different smell .. its a .. garbage and this other decomposition smells are totally different. I mean they're...that's very distinguishable.

SB: Right. I know. I just want to know if you know.

GA: Absolutely.

SB: OK

Page 7952.

Perhaps I should have said that it was my overall impression from the entire interview that the FBI recognise that the smell in the car was decomposition. It is my belief, my opinion only...
 
InspectorGadget said:
Thanks BeanE

To quote what was said specifically that makes me believe that the police & FBI recognise the decomposition smell and that is what they believe is the smell in the car:

In the context of the smell in the trunk versus trash/pizza:

GA: Oh this was a totally different smell .. its a .. garbage and this other decomposition smells are totally different. I mean they're...that's very distinguishable.

SB: Right. I know. I just want to know if you know.

GA: Absolutely.

SB: OK

Page 7952.

Perhaps I should have said that it was my overall impression from the entire interview that the FBI recognise that the smell in the car was decomposition. It is my belief, my opinion only...
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Not to get too far off topic but, GA and CA were the ones raising the red flag about the human decomp smell in the car from the very beginning. No one cared that the car smelled like decomp in the first 15 hours as much as GA and CA and both of them reported it as such.
 
InspectorGadget said:
Thanks BeanE

To quote what was said specifically that makes me believe that the police & FBI recognise the decomposition smell and that is what they believe is the smell in the car:

In the context of the smell in the trunk versus trash/pizza:

GA: Oh this was a totally different smell .. its a .. garbage and this other decomposition smells are totally different. I mean they're...that's very distinguishable.

SB: Right. I know. I just want to know if you know.

GA: Absolutely.

SB: OK

Page 7952.

Perhaps I should have said that it was my overall impression from the entire interview that the FBI recognise that the smell in the car was decomposition. It is my belief, my opinion only...
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I see. From your original post I responded to, I thought you had the impression that LE/FBI gave George the impression the smell was decomp, and that George simply agreed. So I was giving you a way to get the info on what happened earlier than the FBI interview, and earlier than the LE interviews.

What actually happened is that George told a number of people that he'd smelled decomp in the car, among them, LE, to whose attention he brought it. Not the other way around.

But since that's apparently not what you were saying... just ignore me :-)
 
BeanE said:
I see. From your original post I responded to, I thought you had the impression that LE/FBI gave George the impression the smell was decomp, and that George simply agreed. So I was giving you a way to get the info on what happened earlier than the FBI interview, and earlier than the LE interviews.

What actually happened is that George told a number of people that he'd smelled decomp in the car, among them, LE, to whose attention he brought it. Not the other way around.

But since that's apparently not what you were saying... just ignore me :-)
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My bad, I should not have put that in quotes without double checking, will be more careful in future!

I have no doubt the car smelt like decomposition on the night of 15th & 16th & that the dog alerted. This definitely gave the police a clue that there could have been a dead body in the trunk. But they did not find one. And they did not process the whole car.

Getting too far off topic here!
 
InspectorGadget said:
My bad, I should not have put that in quotes without double checking, will be more careful in future!

I have no doubt the car smelt like decomposition on the night of 15th & 16th & that the dog alerted. This definitely gave the police a clue that there could have been a dead body in the trunk. But they did not find one. And they did not process the whole car.

Getting too far off topic here!
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You might be interested in this thread:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92903"]Evidence for "Dead body in the Dam Car" - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
I just can't get over the fact that LE didn't use the cadaver dogs in the house. If they were to go back in at this point, would it be too late for the dogs to alert to evidence if it had been there? Do we know exactly what search methods LE used in the A home (specifically KC's bedroom) - luminol, etc.?

Can LE go back in at any point to do more tests on surfaces, carpet, etc? Or, do they have to have "probable cause" to do so? I realize that by this time, every inch of the house has been scoured clean.

Sorry for my ignorance, but I just can't shake the feeling that there had to be something missed in the house relating to Caylee's death. Or, perhaps it wasn't missed, but just hasn't been released?!?
 
Bump7-1.gif
 
JBean said:
Bump7-1.gif
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Thanks, JBean,
In another thread it has frequently been mentioned that CA refused to give TM / TES an item of Caylee's with her scent on it. From my limited experience with tracking dogs I have always wondered if this was just a rumor.
The organized TES searches were for a body and would use a cadaver dog.Caylee had been missing for quite some time. For most live tracks you need a place to start,usually the last place the person was seen,or known to have been. That's why I have asked if this particular piece of info about Cindy has been confirmed.Was she actually asked for something of Caylee's by TES,and refused to give it to them ?
 
thedeviledadvocate said:
Do you think the defense will reference this case if or when the subject of cadaver dogs comes up at trial?
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I watched a TV show about this case, and as I understand it, it wasn't the cadaver dogs that alerted falsely.... it was the handler who planted evidence.

Since it is pretty obvious no evidence was planted in the Anthony case, I don't see how the two are similar... and what good it would do the defense to use it in their defense.

It is a real shame Sandra Anderson did so much damage to so many cases.

JMO
 
I'm thinking it might be good to bump this thread as it appears the cadaver dog evidence may be coming into play sometime this week.

I know that HHJP does not want the jury to become "witnesses" by having them smell the "cans of death" the media has been playing up which contain the air from the trunk that was sealed and has been in the FBI lab. Although I was interested to see a can being unpacked the other day in court and was wondering just how it might come into play.

After thinking about it for a bit, I'm wondering if the prosecution can somehow sidestep the issue of having the jurors smell the can outright by having an actual cadaver dog enter the courtroom to see if the dog will alert on the can when it is opened. I would imagine that would be pretty dramatic - to see a trained cadaver dog immediately alert on a can of decomp air from the trunk of ICA's car that is three years old.

The state could make the point all over again about the accuracy of the dogs and the fact that, even after time, the air in that car still smells like a dead body.

It would also destroy JB's silly claim about not being able to have a dog on the stand as a witness.
 
Good idea beans---and after it is opened set it on the dt's table---right in front of ica.
 
MAMABEAR said:
Good idea beans---and after it is opened set it on the dt's table---right in front of ica.
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ITA, but don't think it would be in good faith...(putting it in front of ICA that is).

I think they might do a demonstration with the dogs however...that would be great.

ETA: WAIT, dogs can't testify!!!! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
 
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