Can a Toddler shed any light?

[WhyaDuck?]

While girls, on average, tend to be more vocal sooner than boys (in my experience, within this culture, etc), I still think it would be unreasonable for baby K to contribute to this case, especially if a professional hasn't spoken to her yet. Her mommy would be the most likely person to get anything out of her, and that isn't terrifically useful/likely in this case. I can't imagine anything could be used in court, in any case, but I also have trouble believing her recollections would be of use to LE in the short term, either.

However, I think the greatest factor in my opinion is that, if TH did do something to Kyron that day, I am thinking she would not have been if she had reason to believe her daughter would be able to tell on her - and she would know better than anyone, as every child develops at a unique rate, to some extent.

MOO.

ETA: My son is just under 2.5yo, and I wouldn't expect him to be able to give an account of something that happened a day before, let alone a month before. Plus, his views/memory/etc are incredibly subjective.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm a social worker currently working in the field of child abuse and neglect, specifically at an agency that does forensic interviewing of children when there is an allegation of abuse/neglect, namely sexual abuse but also physical abuse and children who have witnessed violence. Childrens' advocacy centers (accredited through the National Children's Alliance) are common and I'm wondering whether the investigators in this case might have utilized their services in questioning classmates or other children believed to have pertinent information in this case if there is one in the area.

Our agency's policy is that we will attempt to interview a child beginning around the age of two. However, these interviews are often not very successful, children at this age may have knowledge but like other posters have said, they simply don't have the verbal ability to get it out. In terms of the way in which a child is questioned, this is HUGELY important...questions have to be non-leading, non-suggestive or the interview simply will not hold up in court. This is "best practice" nationwide and if it is not used cases are not likely to hold up in court. Issues of suggestibility and poor questioning were partially responsible for many of the "witch hunts" and false accusations that perpetuated the daycare sexual abuse cases and other hysteria in the 1980s. In terms of what constitutes leading or suggesting...we cannot even mention a name unless the child brings it up first regardless of what evidence/allegations we have.


Further, all children who are interviewed need to meet the criteria of "legal competence" if it is ever a possibility that they will have to testify or that their information will be used in court. This means that they need to demonstrate that they know the difference between the truth and a lie (typically tested through a simple question such as "If someone said this blue crayon was yellow would that be the truth or would that be a lie?"), agree to tell the truth, they need to demonstrate an ability to NOT guess at questions to which they don't know the answer (generally the interviewer explains that it is ok to say 'I don't know' and that we don't want the child to guess, and then tests this by asking "What's my dog's name?") and lastly, they need to be able to agree to correct the interviewer if she says something wrong (this is tested by the interviewer calling the child the wrong name or wrong age).

So, this is an awful lot for a child Baby K's age to have to do if LE is hopeful to get an legally useable and credible information about anything knowledge she may have.

That's a heck of a first post!

Welcome!

 

[SusieMom]

My daughter is 2 yrs old... she can talk in paragraphs! But she also will tell you her name is Cinderella and that she lives in a castle with butterflies and monkeys. If you asked her who came to dinner last night she's just as likely to say Grandpa as she is to swear that it was Abby Cadabby and that we all ate cotton candy and goldfish.


At baby K's age she could probably have said a few phrases but other than questions about people (who sits in that blue chair... who likes to play soccer?) ... she wouldn't have likely gotten the facts straight. Certainly not about events... I mean maybe if they said "Where's Kyron?" she might say something that could be helpful if she had seen something but probably she's been asking that question and her father has come up with some kind of answer that she'd be repeating.

 

[daisy7]

My daughter is 2 yrs old... she can talk in paragraphs! But she also will tell you her name is Cinderella and that she lives in a castle with butterflies and monkeys. If you asked her who came to dinner last night she's just as likely to say Grandpa as she is to swear that it was Abby Cadabby and that we all ate cotton candy and goldfish.


At baby K's age she could probably have said a few phrases but other than questions about people (who sits in that blue chair... who likes to play soccer?) ... she wouldn't have likely gotten the facts straight. Certainly not about events... I mean maybe if they said "Where's Kyron?" she might say something that could be helpful if she had seen something but probably she's been asking that question and her father has come up with some kind of answer that she'd be repeating.

My youngest DS was extremely vocal beginning at 15 months and he still is to this day. Maybe cuz he has 3 older brothers he has to compete with to get his voice heard?

He's now 4 and does still get facts confused. But, he's always right on when ratting on his brothers!!

 

[winterrose]

I don't know that the baby could shed any light on the disappearance,but circumstances with the baby could very well tell a scenario.There is a classroom photo online of the baby's first birthday,with Kyron's classmates.Under the photo is the caption stating "Where is Kyron you might ask?Yeah,he went to the bathroom without telling anyone." I believe that there was alot of little details leading up to a scenario of Kyron's disappearance.It's Kyron's classmates,his class,his friends,why not wait till he's back in the classroom?

Second of all,he's a child that is afraid to be out of the sight of his home at Desiree's,Carol's and Kaine's and won't get out of bed till someone gets him.I find it hard to believe he'd walk out of the class without telling anyone. And it was taken in November when the landscaper was being talked to by her.I'm wondering how much was preplanned in that even the first thing Desiree said to Terri was,"You better not have done anything to my son."I think there's a whole lot we're not hearing.

 

[mrsjonnob]

Some toddlers are more verbal than others, but their recollection and understanding of events wouldn't be reliable.

My son is 18 months old and answers an enthusiastic "YES!!!!!" to everything. My teenagers thinks it's great because they ask him "Jonah, do you like to eat cat poo?" and he says "YES!!!!!!" I guess it beats him saying "No" to everything.

 

[kiminnm]

ok this maybe a stupid question. where was the baby k the morning of disapearance? Was she with DH?? I am confused..I don't remember anyone saying that Baby K was in the school with them. Baby sitter?? Till what time? thanks if anyone can answer..you guys are awesome her on websleuths..i finally joined in...I just have too many questions on this one!!

 

[TopTop]

ok this maybe a stupid question. where was the baby k the morning of disapearance? Was she with DH?? I am confused..I don't remember anyone saying that Baby K was in the school with them. Baby sitter?? Till what time? thanks if anyone can answer..you guys are awesome her on websleuths..i finally joined in...I just have too many questions on this one!!

From what we know she was with Terri at the school

 

[eyes4crime]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm a social worker currently working in the field of child abuse and neglect, specifically at an agency that does forensic interviewing of children when there is an allegation of abuse/neglect, namely sexual abuse but also physical abuse and children who have witnessed violence. Childrens' advocacy centers (accredited through the National Children's Alliance) are common and I'm wondering whether the investigators in this case might have utilized their services in questioning classmates or other children believed to have pertinent information in this case if there is one in the area.

Our agency's policy is that we will attempt to interview a child beginning around the age of two. However, these interviews are often not very successful, children at this age may have knowledge but like other posters have said, they simply don't have the verbal ability to get it out. In terms of the way in which a child is questioned, this is HUGELY important...questions have to be non-leading, non-suggestive or the interview simply will not hold up in court. This is "best practice" nationwide and if it is not used cases are not likely to hold up in court. Issues of suggestibility and poor questioning were partially responsible for many of the "witch hunts" and false accusations that perpetuated the daycare sexual abuse cases and other hysteria in the 1980s. In terms of what constitutes leading or suggesting...we cannot even mention a name unless the child brings it up first regardless of what evidence/allegations we have.


Further, all children who are interviewed need to meet the criteria of "legal competence" if it is ever a possibility that they will have to testify or that their information will be used in court. This means that they need to demonstrate that they know the difference between the truth and a lie (typically tested through a simple question such as "If someone said this blue crayon was yellow would that be the truth or would that be a lie?"), agree to tell the truth, they need to demonstrate an ability to NOT guess at questions to which they don't know the answer (generally the interviewer explains that it is ok to say 'I don't know' and that we don't want the child to guess, and then tests this by asking "What's my dog's name?") and lastly, they need to be able to agree to correct the interviewer if she says something wrong (this is tested by the interviewer calling the child the wrong name or wrong age).

So, this is an awful lot for a child Baby K's age to have to do if LE is hopeful to get an legally useable and credible information about anything knowledge she may have.

Great 1st post. Welcome to WS and thank you for sharing your professional experience. If you are so inclined, you might want to contact the owner of WS 'Tricia' through her e-mail and become certified as a professional poster. Your knowledge and skills in the forensic interview of children is beyond valuable and would be much appreciated by us here at WS. She needs your license information and a few words as to why you would like to be professional contributor. It would be great to have you as a resource. And if you chose not to, I completely understand. Thanks again for all the information. :blowkiss:

 

[TxLady2]

I can't recall how old "JR" was in the Haleigh Cummings case when Haleigh disappeared? His mom said he saw a man in black that night. In Haleigh's forum, it has been discussed for over a year now and nothing much has come of it.

I have to wonder if maybe baby K came up with a blurb like that in this case that might help a wee bit?

IIRC, Jr. was a week or so shy of 3 years old at that time.

All of my boys talked very early, but my oldest talked in paragraphs at 18 months. I had one niece that did the same, and she spoke 2 or 3 word sentences as early as 15 months.

I doubt that baby K would be much help, and I think if she was very verbal, Kaine might have tried to jar her memory a little by now. I just don't think she saw anything happen to Kyron, or she would be showing some signs of emotional trauma by now. That would scare a small child pretty bad.

 

[Annie]

Little baby K has been through so much trauma. She has lost her mom and her brother and is living in a different house. I can't imagine what that baby must be thinking now. This could even delay her verbalization. I wouldn't let anyone question an 18 month old who has gone through that much under any circumstances. Kyron's friends might be a better source, but I think extreme care needs to be taken with Baby K.

 

[jessunlil]

SBM

Some toddlers are more verbal than others, but their recollection and understanding of events wouldn't be reliable.

You're absolutely right!
My daughter started speaking in complete sentences at around 1 (and she hasn't stopped since!) but she definitely wasn't a reliable "witness" at that age.
One day when she was about 2, my husband asked her what I'd done all day while he was at work - he was just making conversation with her - and she told him I drank beer all day.
He laughed because he knows I hate beer and I had been drinking ROOT beer that day.
She kinda sorta got it right but if she'd said that to someone outside of the house they'd have gotten the completely wrong impression.

 

[newone]

ok this maybe a stupid question. where was the baby k the morning of disapearance? Was she with DH?? I am confused..I don't remember anyone saying that Baby K was in the school with them. Baby sitter?? Till what time? thanks if anyone can answer..you guys are awesome her on websleuths..i finally joined in...I just have too many questions on this one!!

I don't know the answer to that one either and I thought it odd that she wouldn't take the toddler with her to the school