Can child molesters be rehabilitated?????

[Indy Gal]

It sounds good on the surface, but I'm not so sure we would be able to learn anything we don't already know.

After John Wayne Gacy died, they removed his brain during autopsy so that they could study it. They were fully expecting to find some deformations, differences, anamolies, anything that would explain his behavior. They dissected his brain, and literally spent months examining it, hoping to find something. They found nothing. His brain was as normal as you could get. Nothing pathologically different about it, nothing physically different about it, nothing at all.

I think that some people are just evil, and that is something that we can't ever measure, define, or evaluate.

The only thing wrong with these people is the fact they like children. Nothing more....FRY THEM ALL

 

[Indy Gal]

The way the public feel regarding child sex offenders is rarely considered by judges when sentences are handed out. Laws need to be changed and the only way this happens is by public lobbying for change.As a 'society' we must not let sex with children become the norm. By maintaining the rage this is unlikely to 'ever' happen.
On saying this I think of Warren Jeffs and his polygamist buddies who marry young girls.These people are not adhering by the laws of the state and an example MUST be made.

I AGREE

 

[Indy Gal]

I agree we should study child sexual offenders. The first study I propose is intense pain tolerance, culminating in a study of whether or not they can breathe normally in a vat of acid. I think those studies would significantly improve my level of understanding. ;-)

Glitch have i ever told you that I love you:blowkiss:

 

[GlitchWizard]

It's nice to be loved. Thank you!

It infuriates me that we have it all backwards in this society. We have a perfectly good Death Row that could be made to work if we actually put the "worst of the worst" there. (I hate it the way it is!)

If you actually go into the cases that are on Death Row and talk to the people on there, you will find that SOME of them really are, but many aren't even close to dangerous people.

The fact that we can use the word PREDATOR and CHILD in the same sentence and still be talking about someone who is allowed to be out is just amazing to me. They lock up people who commit one crime, one accident, a one time mistake - but those who PREY on innocent children, repeatedly, aren't considered the worst of the worst... it boggles my mind!

 

[cappuccina]

....of course....

Just about every mainstream mental health study on this question has come to this same conclusion...

 

[Indy Gal]

It's nice to be loved. Thank you!

It infuriates me that we have it all backwards in this society. We have a perfectly good Death Row that could be made to work if we actually put the "worst of the worst" there. (I hate it the way it is!)

If you actually go into the cases that are on Death Row and talk to the people on there, you will find that SOME of them really are, but many aren't even close to dangerous people.

The fact that we can use the word PREDATOR and CHILD in the same sentence and still be talking about someone who is allowed to be out is just amazing to me. They lock up people who commit one crime, one accident, a one time mistake - but those who PREY on innocent children, repeatedly, aren't considered the worst of the worst... it boggles my mind!

Just wondering who the 2 are that said yes...Not fighting just looking for your side if you dont mind please explain your thoughts to us....hiya glitch have a great day and everyone working hard here...BAD NEWS i s#$k at researching, but am good at making phone calls and talking to people, maybe we should post our strenghs and weaknesses and figure out who does what then we could just use one for each state...any ideas....should we start another thread for our project... and I LOVE YOU ALL

 

[Jeana (DP)]

IndyGal, here's a start for your research:

Including child molestation as a capital crime:
By the late 1970s, three states -- Florida, Mississippi, and Tennessee -- had laws on the books permitting the death penalty for the crime of child rape. All three laws were later declared unconstitutional by their state courts.

A growing number of states have recently created laws allowing the execution of convicted child molesters. Louisiana was the first in 1995-JUN-17. 1 It allowed the death penalty for aggravated rape of a victim under the age of twelve years. This triggered debates in other state legislatures.

On 2006-JUN-08, Gov. Mark Sanford of South Carolina signed a bill to allow the death penalty for repeat sexual offenders who are convicted of raping children under the age of 11. The new law is named for 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford. During 2005, she was kidnapped, raped and suffocated by a registered sex offender. Sanford said:

"Jessie's Law is about sending a very clear message that there are some lines you do not cross, and that if those lines are crossed the penalties will be severe." 5

Jay Paul Gumm (D-Durant) wrote bill SB 1747 early in 2006 to stiffen penalties for repeat child molesters. He introduced it to the Oklahoma Senate. It passed without difficulty. But a House committee chairperson refused to hear the bill. It died in the House of Representatives. 3 Senator Jonathan Nichols (R-Norman) and Senator Gumm then introduced a different bill, SB 1800. It creates a state Child Abuse Response Team (CART). Additional text was appended to the original bill to stiffen penalties for perpetrators of child abuse. The Oklahoma Senate passed the bill by a vote of 40 to 7. The house passed it 88 to 8.

On 2006-JUN-09, one day after the South Carolina bill became law, Governor Brad Henry of Oklahoma signed SB 1800. 8 It permits a sentence of life in prison without the opportunity of parole or the death penalty for a repeat child molester convicted of harming a child under the age of 14: 4,5 The text reads:

"Section 7115 I: Notwithstanding any other provision of law, any parent or other person convicted of forcible anal or oral sodomy, rape, rape by instrumentation, or lewd molestation of a child under fourteen (14) years of age subsequent to a previous conviction for any offense of forcible anal or oral sodomy, rape, rape by instrumentation, or lewd molestation of a child under fourteen (14) years of age shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for life without parole." 9

http://www.religioustolerance.org/executk.htm

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Also, here's the link to the Lunsford website. Mr. Lunsford got the ball rolling:

http://www.jmlfoundation.com/faq/faq_qanda.php?id=5

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Indy, these should help you too:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=102


I can't wait to see what you come up with!!!

 

[Indy Gal]

This is why i voted for you!!!:clap: Thank you so much for your help. What do you think about doing one type of thing for all of our states and all helping? Also should we start a new thread for that? Thanks again, you are the best.:blowkiss:

 

[believe09]

I don't know how to vote. This is an interesting topic.

I don't think a person can be "cured" from their sexual orientation and I think pedophelia is a sexual orientation.

Certainly everything I know and read about molesters tells me that they do it over and over again, leaving a path of pain in their wake.

Still, I am a big believer in hope, change and redemption, so it's difficult for me to dismiss the possibility for some people.

So barring being cured from a sexual orientation, can they be guaranteed to control an inappropriate impulse? Doubtful-it is how this person is wired. So, it is not acceptable because of the imbalance in power and the lack of informed consent on the part of the child AND it is likely these folks are hardwired this way so the answer is??

 

[southcitymom]

So barring being cured from a sexual orientation, can they be guaranteed to control an inappropriate impulse? Doubtful-it is how this person is wired. So, it is not acceptable because of the imbalance in power and the lack of informed consent on the part of the child AND it is likely these folks are hardwired this way so the answer is??

I do not believe pedophelia can be cured, but I am not convinced that every pedophile acts on his/her impulses (and by this I mean outside the realm of fantasy without physical *advertiser censored*). ie - all pedophiles may want to molest children but all pedophiles do not molest children.

I believe certain situational child sexual molesters have the biggest chance of change. An example might be an addict who molests his step daughter while high and then gets clean and actually enters recovery and faces the harms he has caused and makes amends to the best of his ability - (a big part of which is not doing that behavior again) and is able to actually change into a productive member of society. I'm not saying such a person can ever unring the bell, but I do believe such a person can change enough that he's unlikely to ring the bell again.

So, I always have to believe in exceptions because I see them around me every day. However, I believe that for the most part and with rare exception, child molesters cannot be rehabilitated to a point where we would feel safe with them roaming through society.

Of course, the same thing can be said of addicts and alcoholics (ie - that we are incapable of being rehabilitated) - most of us don't get clean and sober and stay that way and the damage we do to society is enormous.

 

[Indy Gal]

Oh SCM, again another great post from you. I learn so much from you I hope you know that!!

 

[southcitymom]

Oh SCM, again another great post from you. I learn so much from you I hope you know that!!

You are so sweet!

I think perhaps my compassion for humans who act out in horrifying ways that are extremely harmful to themselves, their families and society at large comes from my experiences in recovery.

Not too long ago, addicts and alcoholics were considered the scourge of society (to many they still are considered this) and "earth" people counted us as hopeless of reform. There were a number of years in my life when I felt the same way - I knew I was a drug addict, I felt like there was no possible way for me to live without drugs and I just tried to manage (however unsuccessfully) my addiction.

But in 12-step recovery you get to watch people change their lives in unbelievable ways day by day. It's the most powerful thing I have ever experienced and it was by watching and participating in it, that I began to have hope that I could do it to.

I suspect that the most successful molestation rehabilitation groups are 12-step in nature - places where people can go and be honest about the terrible things they've done, the overwhleming cravings they have, etc...etc... with people who truly understand because they are (or once were) just like them.

I understand why people hate or are disgusted by child molesters, but still this attitude only serves to shame people who are already wallowing in an unbelievable amount of shame, darkness and despair (just like drug adicts) and it is the type of attitude that makes people hide their secrets.

I would rather see a world similar to the world I find in recovery - where people accept me without cringing at my horrible actions and then teach me how to do things differently. Hope is vital to anyone wishing to change. Because of the way I try to live my life, I hold out hope for the lost every minute of the day.

All of this is not to say I think society needs to give addicts and molesters who harm people a free pass. I am all for molesters and addicts who break the law paying the penalty. Still, I would like to see more efforts made towards rehabilitation.

 

[Indy Gal]

I would like to see more go into it as well!

 

[Bobbisangel]

I would like to see anyone that damages a child locked up for the rest of their lives. I don't believe they can be cured...if that were at all possible I think they would be getting that treatment that cures them. Instead they just reoffend over and over. They are given more chances then they deserve.
I wouldn't want my grandchildren around a molester even if the legal system said that he had the cure...no way. I can't think of any thing else that does so much damage to children.

 

[believe09]

I think molestation is similar to alcohol and drug addiction as well, and it all makes sense that it would be in terms of brain chemistry. Unlike chemical addictions where there is simply collateral damage to society in general, a molester situational or otherwise takes with them a victim when they act on an impulse. So let's talk about the guy who was recently discovered having viewed child *advertiser censored* for the last 20 years and was given 3.5 years in a special rehab facility. Let's say that he has told the truth and has not molested a live child-he has contributed to the molestation of thousands by purchasing the images. He doesn't see it that way. Perhaps he has a bad impulse day and for the very first time molests a child, but swears he will never do it again. Seems like a good bet, just get him back on the wagon? He has changed the life of that child forever...barring a car accident or some other kind of disaster that befalls a drug/alcohol abuser the damage is not equivelent.

So knowing that this is the case, in a civilized society, what do we do with the folks that are wired this way and could be ticking time bombs? Because they are taking a little innocent soul with them when they lose control...as a group we do not consider a person who molests one child more outstanding than one who molests many. In the end, there is a child who has to overcome it.

just my thoughts...

 

[southcitymom]

I think molestation is similar to alcohol and drug addiction as well, and it all makes sense that it would be in terms of brain chemistry. Unlike chemical addictions where there is simply collateral damage to society in general, a molester situational or otherwise takes with them a victim when they act on an impulse. So let's talk about the guy who was recently discovered having viewed child *advertiser censored* for the last 20 years and was given 3.5 years in a special rehab facility. Let's say that he has told the truth and has not molested a live child-he has contributed to the molestation of thousands by purchasing the images. He doesn't see it that way. Perhaps he has a bad impulse day and for the very first time molests a child, but swears he will never do it again. Seems like a good bet, just get him back on the wagon? He has changed the life of that child forever...barring a car accident or some other kind of disaster that befalls a drug/alcohol abuser the damage is not equivelent.

So knowing that this is the case, in a civilized society, what do we do with the folks that are wired this way and could be ticking time bombs? Because they are taking a little innocent soul with them when they lose control...as a group we do not consider a person who molests one child more outstanding than one who molests many. In the end, there is a child who has to overcome it.

just my thoughts...

You make some great points - some, I agree with and others, my perspective is a little different.

IMHO, alcohol and drug addiction absolutely damage children on the same level as sexual molestation. Of course, it depends on the situation, but any child who was raised in an addicted home (I was) will tell you that the damage caused is severe.

With very few exceptions, if you were raised in the home of an active addict, you endured at least one of the following and probably more than one: verbal abuse, physicial abuse and neglect, emotional abuse and neglect, spiritual abuse and neglect and sexual abuse to name just a few.

Chemical abuse does cause a great deal of "collateral" damage to the society in the form of automobile accidents, divorce, robbery, murder, suicide, etc... but it also causes very specific damage to the very specific individuals it touches. Just like child molestation.

You are correct that the probable pedophile who says he never touched a child did indeed harm children just by looking at their images. You are correct that if we let him out and he touches a child, he will change that child's life forever. But if I relapse and drive with my children in my car and get in a wreck because I am nodding out at the wheel, I could change their lives forever. My giving in to my worst desires can cause as much harm as him giving in to his worst desires.

So why do I want to say - "Sure, lock him up, but let me go about my business - I'll be good, I'll behave - I promise!" I want to say that because I am selfish and want my freedom and I believe I can continue to recover. But I know that I am a loaded gun just like he is.

Please do not think I am a fan of going easy on child molesters. One of the ironies of my life is that most of the people closest to me (my husband, a sister, numerous girlfriends) were molested as children. So I know the type of damage that does to a person.

But I would be exceedingly dishonest not to recognize and consider the many similarities between me and a child molester.

 

[txsvicki]

I will never believe that child molestation/rape is a sexual orientation or an addiction. Those people are sexual deviants, psychopaths, and are predators preying on the weakest and most vulnerable, because they choose to. Some breed their own victims or stay in the family, some abduct and murder their victims, some manipulate and con their way into certain jobs, probably all use the internet now, and the wealthy fly to other countries to do this. They are all the same to me and I believe that the way they go about it depends on their level of intelligence, verbal abilities, ability to plan, finances, level of violence, and any inherited mental illnesses that affect them. Some act on impulse and some plan out their whole lives. None of them will change, but who knows, they may could have been helped as kids when it started for them. I also do not believe that all were abused or harmed as children themselves.

 

[Filly]

What's to say of the addicts and alcoholics who were sexually abused as children? If not for some depraved louse hurting a child would Sue still have picked up that pipe? Would John have become a heroin addict? I understand with addiction placing blame on a particular incident or a horrific past won't get ya clean, but there's no denying that a very large number of addicts were sexually abused as kids. Just a thought, but I am with Texas Vickie here. I'd like to ask the guy with the monitor bracelet on who went and took a child right out of her own school how it all works.