Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #12

[ABro]

What is so appalling? It is a mother with a child that has severe emotional, behavioural and mental disorders, trying to shed some light on the struggles parents of these children face. So many people are quick to impose "poor parenting" as the cause without understanding the illness.

Personality, I found her story brave.

She had no right to discuss the child's mental health issues in public making him clearly identifiable by name and in photos.

The mother herself, as she later admitted, suffers from mental health issues.

At the request of family members the story was later pulled from some outlets.

I will agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Cherchri]

She had no right to discuss the child's mental health issues in public making him clearly identifiable by name and in photos.

The mother herself, as she later admitted, suffers from mental health issues.

At the request of family members the story was later pulled from some outlets.

I will agree to disagree on this one.

Actually Liza is an author and quickly states "Michael (name changed)" .... I have no doubt the child not only has a different first name but likely his father's surname - thus not easily identified. As his mother, she has every right to share these insights IMO.

 

[news.talk]

Actually Liza is an author and quickly states "Michael (name changed)..... I have no doubt the child not only has a different first name but likely his father's surname - thus not easily identified. As his mother, she has every right to share this insights IMO.

I agree and if I may add, by sharing these VERY hard truths about not only her child but herself, it may help other parents recognise and seek help for themselves or children with similar traits.

 

[news.talk]

She had no right to discuss the child's mental health issues in public making him clearly identifiable by name and in photos.

The mother herself, as she later admitted, suffers from mental health issues.

At the request of family members the story was later pulled from some outlets.

I will agree to disagree on this one.

What on earth does the mother's mental health issues have to do with her right to share her story? Did those issues cause her child's?

Maybe, this is exactly the point - Mental health issues have such negative and ill-informed judgements perpetuated, that people suffering from them are afraid to speak out. Maybe, just maybe, if they are more inclined to speak help and others become more educated on these issues, these horrific tragedies would be less likely to happen.

 

[Cherchri]

She had no right to discuss the child's mental health issues in public making him clearly identifiable by name and in photos.

The mother herself, as she later admitted, suffers from mental health issues.

At the request of family members the story was later pulled from some outlets.

I will agree to disagree on this one.

Do you per chance have a link pertaining to her admission vis-a-vis- her own mental problems? I have searched and been unable to find anything. TIA

 

[kaley]

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2186826

Just found this article. It's from last October. Not exactly related but interesting none the less. Perhaps AL and KL attended this talk.

 

[ABro]

Do you per chance have a link pertaining to her admission visa-vis- her own mental problems? I have searched and been unable to find anything. TIA

She discusses it in this doc:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/science-jan-june13-lizalong_02-20/

I generally agree with this article critiquing her actions:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto..._s_mother_liza_lang_essay_libels_her_son.html

 

[studyer]

What on earth does the mother's mental health issues have to do with her right to share her story? Did those issues cause her child's?

Maybe, this is exactly the point - Mental health issues have such negative and ill-informed judgements perpetuated, that people suffering from them are afraid to speak out. Maybe, just maybe, if they are more inclined to speak help and others become more educated on these issues, these horrific tragedies would be less likely to happen.

I agree with this. I know we are off-topic now, but this is a situation that cuts across geography, social class, economic class, everything. The inability for parents to get help and access to care for children with mental health issues is a heartbreaking, yet 'hidden', side of our (slipping, imo) social safety net, whatever that term means anymore.

This needs to become un-hidden. I don't see very much difference between the article we are debating here, and this account of an Ottawa family in similarly dire circumstances. My heart goes out to them and all parents in this situation. A friend of mine works in this field, and one of the problems is simply finding where such children can be for the day: schools, hospitals or home, yet how much support is provided for parents at home? etc. I could go on, but won't.

http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/mother-of-...ger-leaves-son-at-government-office-1.1260890

 

[otto]

There have been several links posted with regards to it being AG's email, you'll likely have to go back and look.

That's assuming that a man in his 80s is using email. It's also possible that Douglas Garland set up the account using his father's name, but that his father never uses the account.

 

[news.talk]

I agree with this. I know we are off-topic now, but this is a situation that cuts across geography, social class, economic class, everything. The inability for parents to get help and access to care for children with mental health issues is a heartbreaking, yet 'hidden', side of our (slipping, imo) social safety net, whatever that term means anymore.

This needs to become un-hidden. I don't see very much difference between the article we are debating here, and this account of an Ottawa family in similarly dire circumstances. My heart goes out to them and all parents in this situation. A friend of mine works in this field, and one of the problems is simply finding where such children can be for the day: schools, hospitals or home, yet how much support is provided for parents at home? etc. I could go on, but won't.

http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/mother-of-...ger-leaves-son-at-government-office-1.1260890

Thank you. Well said.

It relates to the topic of the culpability of DG's parents. No charges have been filed on them and there has been NO claims by people that know them, that state they are in any way responsible for their son's actions - alleged and proven. In fact, all accounts from those that knew the parents point to them being well respected, law abiding members of the community.

I guess I take issue with the "blame the parents" angle. If anything, it is possible, that they are victims too.

 

[Cherchri]

That's assuming that a man in his 80s is using email. It's also possible that Douglas Garland set up the account using his father's name, but that his father never uses the account.

Precisely. I believe I suggested that a while ago. Another impersonation.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Precisely. I believe I suggested that a while ago. Another impersonation.

I'm thinking that likely the internet/cable account is in dad's name and the email address was the one that "came with the account."

I do know a few older people who communicate regularly via email though.

 

[Cherchri]

I'm thinking that likely the internet/cable account is in dad's name and the email address was the one that "came with the account."

I do know a few older people who communicate regularly via email though.

Me too. My late uncle taught himself to use the internet and email in his 90's! In this case I imagine DG would want to safeguard his communications so not likely to share an email address with pops. I have been known to be wrong but only on one occasion. Ever. Kidding - of course I could well be wrong just my instincts at work here. I have no doubt all accounts are in father's name and paid for by father.

 

[Cherchri]

She discusses it in this doc:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/science-jan-june13-lizalong_02-20/

I generally agree with this article critiquing her actions:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto..._s_mother_liza_lang_essay_libels_her_son.html

Many thanks for the links. I don't find anything about her mental health....? I had read Hanna Rosin's article before and found her views very narrow and exclusive. Anyone who has experienced the agonies of learning disabilities, depression, mental health problems in a loved one - especially one's own child - would embrace shared information and insights IMO. This lad has now been properly diagnosed and is on appropriate meds and enjoying a stable healthy life. I have no doubt his mom played a very active role in getting him the help he so badly needed.

 

[wendiesan]

Transcript of CTV news report regarding the Calgary Police Service sending investigators to Mexico.
This is not an official draft, and is not connected to any of the participants.
This is a rough draft, and all errors are my own.

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-p...-case-of-missing-trio-1.1946871#ixzz39ZqzxVmH

Calgary police take trip to Mexico in case of missing trio.
August 5, 2014

New Anchor: Tara Nelson = TN
Reporter: Camilla Di Giuseppe = CG

TN: Hello, and thank you for joining us.

There are developments on two fronts tonight in the disappearance of a Calgary boy and his grandparents. Camilla Di Giuseppe joins us now, and Cammie the investigation into the murders of Nathan O'Brien and Alvin and Kathryn Liknes has moved outside Canada.

CG: That's right, Tara.

The murder case of five year old Nathan O'Brien, as you mentioned, and his grandparents has extended across the border and into Mexico. That's where Calgary detectives are right now, working with local police there.

Alvin and Kathy Liknes were planning to relocate to Mexico before they vanished in June from their Parkhill home along with their grandson. Police say they've been murdered, even though no bodies have been found. Douglas Garland has been charged with two counts of first degree murder, and one count of second degree murder. Detectives are not disclosing where the investigation has taken them into Mexico but the family had said previously that the Likneses were moving to Mazatlan.

TN: Camilla, some of the earlier charges laid against Douglas Garland have now been stayed.

CG: That's right. We spoke with Crown Prosecutor, Shane Parker, today who tells us that he requested that the charges of impersonation and a fraudulent credit card be stayed, and rather use that as evidence in the murder investigation.

Initially, remember those charges were called "unrelated" to the case. And now, we do know that the prosecutor said that he has not seen a need for different proceedings regarding those charges. Again, 54 year old Douglas Garland is the only suspect in this case. And, Tara, he will be back in court on August 14th.

TN: OK. Thank you, Camilla.

 

[ABro]

Many thanks for the links. I don't find anything about her mental health....? I had read Hanna Rosin's article before and found her views very narrow and exclusive. d.

You need to watch the actual documentary.

 

[news.talk]

Transcript of CTV news report regarding the Calgary Police Service sending investigators to Mexico.
This is not an official draft, and is not connected to any of the participants.
This is a rough draft, and all errors are my own.

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-p...-case-of-missing-trio-1.1946871#ixzz39ZqzxVmH

Calgary police take trip to Mexico in case of missing trio.
August 5, 2014

New Anchor: Tara Nelson = TN
Reporter: Camilla Di Giuseppe = CG

TN: Hello, and thank you for joining us.

There are developments on two fronts tonight in the disappearance of a Calgary boy and his grandparents. Camilla Di Giuseppe joins us now, and Cammie the investigation into the murders of Nathan O'Brien and Alvin and Kathryn Liknes has moved outside Canada.

CG: That's right, Tara.

The murder case of five year old Nathan O'Brien, as you mentioned, and his grandparents has extended across the border and into Mexico. That's where Calgary detectives are right now, working with local police there.

Alvin and Kathy Liknes were planning to relocate to Mexico before they vanished in June from their Parkhill home along with their grandson. Police say they've been murdered, even though no bodies have been found. Douglas Garland has been charged with two counts of first degree murder, and one count of second degree murder. Detectives are not disclosing where the investigation has taken them into Mexico but the family had said previously that the Likneses were moving to Mazatlan.

TN: Camilla, some of the earlier charges laid against Douglas Garland have now been stayed.

CG: That's right. We spoke with Crown Prosecutor, Shane Parker, today who tells us that he requested that the charges of impersonation and a fraudulent credit card be stayed, and rather use that as evidence in the murder investigation.

Initially, remember those charges were called "unrelated" to the case. And now, we do know that the prosecutor said that he has not seen a need for different proceedings regarding those charges. Again, 54 year old Douglas Garland is the only suspect in this case. And, Tara, he will be back in court on August 14th.

TN: OK. Thank you, Camilla.

Thanks for transcribing that!

AGAIN, the reporter is incorrectly quoting a charge.


The charges are IDENTITY THEFT and POSSESSION OF A BANK CARD OBTAINED BY CRIME.

This reporter says the later charge is "A fraudulent credit card".

Argh!!![emoji35]

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I'm curious about the joint ownership of the property in Mexico by Garland and Liknes. At a press conference, one of the Liknes children mentioned that it was a joint family purchase, but I had assumed that it was Liknes children and parents. If it was a Garland/Liknes purchase, that may factor into motive. My first question would be: were both names on title? My next question would be whether the Garland in question is the sister of Douglas, or whether the money came from the owners of the Airdrie acreage. If the money came from the owners of the acreage, I could see that as being a problem for Douglas.

Where is the Garland/Liknes purchase coming from? I thought they said at the presser it was the Liknes brothers that owned it. I'll have to watch it again.

 

[goodasgold]

Does anyone know if whether or not the Liknes' that reside in Airdrie are related to this family?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Possession of their card(s) alone, would not be irrefutable evidence of murder but regardless, it was used to detain him longer. In conjunction with the truck being caught on camera and any other evidence in the form of DNA (his and theirs) in the Parkhill residence plus evidence gathered on the Airdrie acreage would go beyond circumstantial. Yes nuts. The whole matter is nuts and it's driving me nuts.

The card though would tie him directly to the disappearance, and I would think they would charge him with something in order to keep him in jail. Person of Interest, would have become suspect #1. Could you imagine if they released someone, sitting on that type of evidence, and that suspect goes on a murderous rampage? It's one thing to say they had nothing on him and had no choice, but a credit card of the victims is much more than that, and at the very least they would've asked for a higher bail I would think... And hope...