Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #12

[otto]

After reading this and seeing that the land is 1.64ha what do you suppose the dollar figure would be? And do you know if the land belongs to AL or another family member? What would you suggest be the best option.. Lease, lump-sum, and based on market value of the land do you think its applicable or how could they determine the value against that when and if they did not forsee the intent from Trans Canada? It is obviously more valuable now then it was prior to TC's interest. Do I even make sense??

I missed how this land was connected to the murdered couple.

 

[stan laurel]

After reading this and seeing that the land is 1.64ha what do you suppose the dollar figure would be? And do you know if the land belongs to AL or another family member? What would you suggest be the best option.. Lease, lump-sum, and based on market value of the land do you think its applicable or how could they determine the value against that when and if they did not forsee the intent from Trans Canada? It is obviously more valuable now then it was prior to TC's interest. Do I even make sense??

Keystone is not an overnight thought, no pipeline is, people in the know talk, landmen make their rounds like rats in a cheese shop leaving just enough scent to make us wonder. Contracts vary in price,, though his kleinship ralph, stallmach and the red queen have made it possible for O&G companies to act like municipalities in the race to annex. Long to short, most people hold out and the pipeline wins by having to pay 60% of the first offer should a stalemate happen and go to an arbitrator. That's my nutshell on the subject.

On another note, the more I go a-lookin the more I discover that the L's here and some L's over there and another L over there are in business together.

 

[LoisLane]

Keystone is not an overnight thought, no pipeline is, people in the know talk, landmen make their rounds like rats in a cheese shop leaving just enough scent to make us wonder. Contracts vary in price,, though his kleinship ralph, stallmach and the red queen have made it possible for O&G companies to act like municipalities in the race to annex. Long to short, most people hold out and the pipeline wins by having to pay 60% of the first offer should a stalemate happen and go to an arbitrator. That's my nutshell on the subject.

On another note, the more I go a-lookin the more I discover that the L's here and some L's over there and another L over there are in business together.

Yes, I agree with what you are saying here. I know that some of these proposed pipeline projects have been proposed and planned for many years, some even before I was born. I guess it would depend on how long this piece of property has been in the family to verify that they bought it with the hope it will become property of TC.

 

[LoisLane]

I missed how this land was connected to the murdered couple.

I am not sure I can present that answer... That would be Stan Laurel.

 

[stan laurel]

I am not sure I can present that answer... That would be Stan Laurel.

Just another company in a long line of non-company companies that were being discussed yesterday,, in this case an auto sales company that's really just a field.

 

[LoriMcA]

With Keystone being mentioned....found an interesting article....I don't know if it's relevant to this at all ...land prices vary greatly all over Canada never mind the States....
I guess it's gone crazy in Nebraska with pricing & sign on bonuses....probably because they are being 'the last man standing' so to speak...

Interesting read nonetheless....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...s-700-spike-in-cash-offers-for-land-1.2511750

& just for good measure.... 1 hectare = 2.47105 acres so 1.64 hectares = 4.052528 acres

 

[Sillybilly]

How could a Real Estate agent fall into bankruptcy during a real estate boom - where the starting price of a house is $400,000? In terms of commission (7% on the first $100k, and 3.5% for the next $300k), selling one bottom of the market house would bring in $17,500 in commission. Selling three houses in a year would be about $50,000. After declaring bankruptcy, Kathryn Liknes no longer had a licence to practice real estate, yet she continued to solicit properties via online buy/sell websites. Perhaps she was undecided about her career at the age of 53, but there must be some story to go along with a realtor declaring bankruptcy under those conditions.

Your commission figure of $17,500 is assuming KL double-ended the deal (i.e. she was both the listing and selling agent with no broker involved). It doesn't take into consideration that she would be working for a r/e broker. I believe she would be on a split with her broker (i.e. 60/40 or 50/50 or ??). IF she double ended it, that $17,500 would be split between her and her broker (so $8750). IF she was only the listing or the selling agent, that total $17,500 commission would be split between the listing and selling brokers, so $8750 for each broker. Then, at a 50/50 split with her broker on the $8750, her commission would only be $4375.

 

[Sillybilly]

Just another company in a long line of non-company companies that were being discussed yesterday,, in this case an auto sales company that's really just a field.

Putting 51.8816363 -110.5957064 into Google Earth brings up the push pin at the extreme southeast corner of that quadrant. The legal description involved is the NE of that quadrant, and there are buildings in that NE corner. Can't zero in well enough to see what they are. It's about 10km south of the centre of Monitor.

 

[deugirtni]

There are many reasons for personal bankruptcy. Self employed people (which a realtor is) have to be responsible for submitting their own income taxes to Revenue Canada, unlike employees who have it deducted on their behalves from their employers.

Depending on the net income earned, if a self employed neglected to file for a few years, that could REALLY add up, and also would have some ugly penalties and interest attached. Tax debt owed to Revenue Canada is dischargable in a bankruptcy.

There is also the 5% GST added to real estate commissions, which the realtor is also responsible for remitting to the government, and if that isn't being set aside and filed and remitted as due, that can be another cash register that keeps adding up and up.

Some or many self employeds have trouble saving/separating/remitting on both of these taxes, and don't set these monies aside, and end up using it on something else, and then find themselves owing more and more until it is seen as overwhelming to catch up.

If KL had cosigned on a business loan of some kind and the business failed, and the creditor came knocking at KL's door to pay up what was owed, that could certainly spin someone into the need to file for bankruptcy.

If KL had started some kind of business which required purchasing or leasing something.. which lost value as soon as it was purchased (similar to how a car loses value as soon as it's driven off the lot), and the business failed, or for some reason the creditor called in the loan/lease.. there could be a pile of money owing to account for the difference between the deemed value of the asset and what still remains owing, even if the creditor took back the asset.

Being successful as a realtor isn't as easy as it may appear to be. IMHO, one has to get out there and consistently work very hard in order to get clients and business and repeat customers, and at all hours of the day and at a moment's notice, and of course, we do not have a clue about any particular realtor's work habits. There is a LOT of competition and one has to sell themselves in order to be chosen by any given client, not to mention that it seems like everyone knows at least one realtor to begin with. And like others have indicated, the commissions are split between both the realtor's broker, and the other half of the transaction, that realtor and his broker, in any given sale. And the commissions that are 'standard', are not standard any more, there are always savvy purchasers and sellers who want to negotiate a better deal than the standard, and it is mostly within the realtor's hands on what rate she is willing to work for, and there may not be much choice but to reduce fees if one wants to get the sale, since there are always other realtors who will do it for less.

And then there are the expenses, as also mentioned. It takes quite a bit in order to even break even over the course of a year.

And yes, it is entirely possible to file for personal bankruptcy when married to a spouse who is not going to file for bankruptcy. Each person is a separate individual even when married... that said however, if there happen to be joint debts and assets, it can get sticky... such as jointly owning a home. If KL's name wasn't on title of the family home, the home wouldn't be affected and the owner could continue to own it. Or if there was not enough equity in the family home, it wouldn't have an impact, since there would be not enough money available there with which to repay other creditors. This link states which items are exempted from bankruptcy in Alberta:
http://www.bdodebthelp.ca/EN/bankruptcy/bankruptcy-assets/Pages/Alberta-bankruptcy-exemptions.aspx

Bankruptcy records are public, and can be searched (for a fee (minimal) of course).

The Bankruptcy and Insolvency Records Search database contains:

• basic debtor information of all bankruptcies and proposals registered in Canada since 1978
• all receiverships registered with our office since January 1993
• all petitions recorded at our office; and
• all companies that have been granted protection under the Companies´ Creditors Arrangement Act (CCAA) since September 18, 2009.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/bsf-osb/ins/login.html?lang=eng

Clearly I'm only familiar with the huge commission from the seller's perspective ... what the realtors do between themselves ... don't know anything about it. Any thoughts on how a realtor could go bankrupt in a market like that ... where the cheapest houses cost $400k?

 

[bakerlady]

I'm having trouble understanding how DG would benefit from using a dead person's identity to obtain a bank account. We keep getting the notion that he was some unemployed recluse, but if that was all there was to the story then he would not need to do the identity theft. It made sense earlier when he was on the run and hiding, but why now?

IMO it would be beneficial to someone who wants to launder money and not pay taxes or tip off the govt.

So if he was still living the life of crime and laundering money, we would have to assume he obtained this money illegally. The possibilities are endless and I think secret business dealings with the Liknes clan is not too far out there in the realm of possibilities. We are only finding evidence that is published online but IMO that is only the 'tip of the iceberg' and the real truth is at the bottom of the iceberg, covered and hidden and voluminous and mighty.

 

[Krystine]

How could a Real Estate agent fall into bankruptcy during a real estate boom - where the starting price of a house is $400,000? In terms of commission (7% on the first $100k, and 3.5% for the next $300k), selling one bottom of the market house would bring in $17,500 in commission. Selling three houses in a year would be about $50,000. After declaring bankruptcy, Kathryn Liknes no longer had a licence to practice real estate, yet she continued to solicit properties via online buy/sell websites. Perhaps she was undecided about her career at the age of 53, but there must be some story to go along with a realtor declaring bankruptcy under those conditions.

In most cases, unless an agent were to both list AND sell a property, (rarely, it is discouraged) there are two agents involved.
So the commission split is 7/3-50%. Still a nice paycheck.

 

[Krystine]

Ok, here we go

So back in 2006-2007 which I believe is the time frame KL was a realtor the cheapest houses were not $400K. I would say $300K.
So, lets assume that KL listed and sold a house for $325K and got full commissions for the selling portion (3.5/1.5). That would be $6875.


We are also going to assume that the house was sold in a month.
KL has to pay the following (and a rough estimate)
MLS listing - $75
Sign up/down - $150
Broker (desk) fees for a month - depends on the company she was with, but usually in the neighbourhood of $250-$500
Advertising costs - $500 - $1000 (this is really easy to rack up, especially depending on the method... at that time a half page ad in the Calgary Sun was about $2,000)
Conveyancing fees - $300ish
Taxes also have to be paid on top of that = 30% taxes - $2062
Gas, maintenance on her car, any minor costs associated with an open house - $200

That would leave our hypothetical KL with $2938. Which isn't bad if you manage to sell that one house every single month.
Reality is, unless a realtor has been around a long time or has an established client base, they dont sell a house every month.
So now that $2900 has to last her.. well, who knows how long.

Its just a rough estimate, but you can see how costs add up

Don't forget, the expenses are all tax deductions. Real Estate is a lucrative line of work, if you can stir up enough business. That is the real challenge, a lot of agents can't.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

The accused is an uncle only to the children of his siblings.

According to Alvin's son Allen, the last dealings between Alvin and the accused were seven years ago. I don't see any reason to doubt that, and given the patent dispute, I see no reason for Alvin or the accused to do further business together. There doesn't appear to be any business dealings between the families until the purchase of the Mazatlan condo, and I doubt that the accused had the money to invest in the property.

I'm not entirely sure but I believe that DG's sister is the mother to AL's (son) children, which would make DG their uncle.

I'm aware of many people who run in the same business circles that have had legal issues, conflict, falling's out and they seem to come full circle and hook-up again. Given that Airdrie and surrounding area (excluding Calgary) is a relatively small town atmosphere, I don't think it would be such a strange thing that they do business together again. I'm not sure how you have determined that there's "no reason" for "AL and DG to do business together...DG has worked as an employee in one of DG's businesses in the past (I will have to try and find the article I had read that in). The patent dispute may not be as big a problem as we have been thinking it is. IMO, I think there's a good chance that they have crossed business paths again, it would be difficult for them not to. What I have seen in both the construction business and the oil & gas industry (from working in them) is that, business is business and everyone is out to make a buck...JMO, when it comes to money, and if one can be of use to the other, there could very well be a smoothing-over of differences. There is no evidence that anyone has mentation that AL and DG definitely did not have contact for the last 7 years. IMO, I like to keep an open mind in order to rake through all possible scenarios here. . I will try and find supporting evidence that AL's(son) children are with PG.

 

[Krystine]

Clearly I'm only familiar with the huge commission from the seller's perspective ... what the realtors do between themselves ... don't know anything about it. Any thoughts on how a realtor could go bankrupt in a market like that ... where the cheapest houses cost $400k?

A boom like that can be very difficult to make a living in. If you are writing an offer on a property, there are likely 3-8 other people putting offers in at the same time. An owner will have the luxury of multiple offers, with some buyers bidding far over the list price of the home.
It was a highly competitive time, ...it was crazy-making. You had willing buyers, but often could not get them into a house.
I liked the 80's a lot better, when interest rates were 19% and we all had 50 listings.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

How could a Real Estate agent fall into bankruptcy during a real estate boom - where the starting price of a house is $400,000? In terms of commission (7% on the first $100k, and 3.5% for the next $300k), selling one bottom of the market house would bring in $17,500 in commission. Selling three houses in a year would be about $50,000. After declaring bankruptcy, Kathryn Liknes no longer had a licence to practice real estate, yet she continued to solicit properties via online buy/sell websites. Perhaps she was undecided about her career at the age of 53, but there must be some story to go along with a realtor declaring bankruptcy under those conditions.

The real estate industry is definitely a feast or famine industry. It's possible that KL wasn't a top-selling agent. There are also high costs associated with being a real estate agent that lowers their commissions...not all agents double-end a deal, I hear that's a bonus...typically the list or sell and sometimes both, in which case, many will give a bit of a reduced commission. Or, if a seller lists a house with a realtor, and buys another house through the same realtor, the realtor may give them a reduced commission as a 'thank you' for providing them with 2 transactions.

KL could have been an outstanding agent; the taxes may have been outstanding as well. Even though there are business deductions that would have affected her net income, taxes are still a reality. It is possible that she was behind on her taxes...if she made large amounts of money in real estate, she would owe large amounts to the government. People have declared bankruptcy just for taxes alone. People also seek protection from bankruptcy or consumer proposals to protect themselves against pending lawsuits on a variety of things that may or may not be business related.

There are also many people that make big money and are in debt up to their ears for various reasons. Could be a shopping habit, could be gambling, could be that a person is overly generous and buys many gifts for friends, clients, etc. IMO, it would not be hard for a real estate agent or anyone for that matter to declare bankruptcy. Information that I was given by a Trustee in the 80's was that it was quite common for high-earning professionals to buy expensive items...artwork, jewellery, etc. and put them in their spouse's names. They would declare bankruptcy and these items couldn't be recovered as part of the bankruptcy because they were given as gifts. That may have changed now, I'm not sure.

Really, a person doesn't really even need a good reason to claim bankruptcy, it could be just not to have to pay their debts. The reason they provide to the Trustee is typically not questioned. Not everyone makes sound financial decisions. A lot of people don't know how to handle money either. It could be that if AL's businesses were suffering, KL could've been paying all their living expenses. There's lots of reasons how a real estate agent in a booming economy could claim bankruptcy.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Thats what I was trying to figure out... I think it may be a case of the son speaking in a broad sense, but I would think given the circumstances he would know precisely how long it was since they had contact.

Hi julydarling I'm just curious as to why you think the son would know precisely how long it was since they had contact?

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Is there an automatic suspension of licence upon declaring bankruptcy? Given that her name was not on the house title when it was sold on Dec 5, 2013, is it likely that it was personal bankruptcy? Does anyone know how it works if one spouse declares personal bankruptcy and not the other ... is that possible?

Hi Otto, yes, that's entirely possible. If one filed bankruptcy, they are allowed to keep their home up to a certain amount of equity (I think its about 40,000 in Alberta). If the equity is larger than that, then half of the excess equity would have to be paid into the bankruptcy. There may have been another reason (maybe legal lawsuit) that a bankruptcy would protect, or they had more than the maximum allowable equity for KL to file bankruptcy with, which absolutely would affect the cost of the bankruptcy. It doesn't mean that they necessarily would have lost the house, but if there was lets say 300,000 equity in it, and for the sake of discussion, KL was allowed to have 40,000 equity, half of the remaining 260,000 would have to go into the bankruptcy which means her monthly payments would be huge...so, best case scenario is to take her name off the house and not list it as an asset in the bankruptcy.

 

[Krystine]

After reading this and seeing that the land is 1.64ha what do you suppose the dollar figure would be? And do you know if the land belongs to AL or another family member? What would you suggest be the best option.. Lease, lump-sum, and based on market value of the land do you think its applicable or how could they determine the value against that when and if they did not forsee the intent from Trans Canada? It is obviously more valuable now then it was prior to TC's interest. Do I even make sense??

This...is a great new line of thought. Like it a lot.

 

[Krystine]

Every year an agent must renew their license, and one of the questions on that application asks whether you have declared a bankruptcy. It does not disqualify an agent from renewing, but does provide RECA and the CREB with new information re: the status of the individual's personal finances. They can still be bonded to handle trust monies and carry on with their practice.

 

[Krystine]

http://askross.ca/2013/04/can-realtor-keep-license-if-they-declare-bankruptcy/