Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #12

[Tinkerbel1]

I'm wondering if anyone knows if there was a friendly relationship, or any relationship at all between KL/AL and DG's parents?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I had read somewhere (will look for info) that Alvin was a Petroleum Engineer...this is a 2 year program that is delivered at both NAIT and SAIT. He may not be an actual Engineer (as in P.Eng. with a University degree) although he may be presenting himself as one, but perhaps a Petroleum Engineering Technologist (P.E.T.). Whether or not he is registered with ASET or APEGGA would be interesting to find out.

http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/bl...-in-bid-to-find-him-his-wife-and-his-grandson

“He’s just a great guy to work with, whether things worked or didn’t work, he was giving his best efforts,”

That's all I can find regarding skills and knowledge...

 

[otto]

In response to the latter part of your quote Otto...I wonder if its a possibility that DG was perhaps used as a Consultant of sorts by AL in some of these businesses? AL and DG are loosely related, so lets just assume for the purpose of discussion that they are "family". From the comments that I've read made by some of the neighbors, it sounds like the Liknes' were a warm, kind-hearted, welcoming couple. JMO, but there could be the possibility that AL and DG view the patent dispute as 'water under the bridge' as it doesn't appear it went anywhere anyway, so I'm not sure how angry DG would remain over that. Perhaps, from time to time DG did some work for one of AL's companies and other things have happened between them besides that patent dispute? Maybe AL even retained DG as "compensation", to show goodwill towards him in regards to the patent issue? DG is the uncle of AL's other grandchildren from his son AL. It's difficult to imagine that it caused such a huge rift...there weren't any gains from the patent were there? I can see DG distrusting AL in that regard for future dealings, but to hold that kind of grudge? I don't know if it would be worth it, DG didn't really lose anything by it (ie., money). I find it difficult to believe they stopped dealing with each other in a business sense, as they both seem to like to make 'make easy money'.. The only information we have on them not interacting was the comment made by his son, AL. FWIW, I think that perhaps they could have had business dealings since then.

The accused is an uncle only to the children of his siblings.

According to Alvin's son Allen, the last dealings between Alvin and the accused were seven years ago. I don't see any reason to doubt that, and given the patent dispute, I see no reason for Alvin or the accused to do further business together. There doesn't appear to be any business dealings between the families until the purchase of the Mazatlan condo, and I doubt that the accused had the money to invest in the property.

 

[otto]

KL is roughly the same age group as I am. Generally women go through changes in themselves physically, emotionally and mentally in this age group. IMO, it wouldn't be unusual for her to make some changes in her career and attempt other things...maybe just for 'something different'. It sounds like she was a talented lady, that was socially connected and perhaps thought she might like to pursue other interests. Nowadays, a lot of people's ideal job is to work for themselves...she's watched her husband do it for years, maybe she thought she would start her own business...its possible that he suggested it...he certainly knows how to set one up! It's possible that she has tried a multitude of different business ventures thinking she may like them, started to set them up, found they didn't really take off, or they weren't what she thought they would be and abandoned them. I agree that her webpages aren't "professional" looking, etc. but that's not to say that she wasn't attempting to build a "solid" business. I don't necessarily think that her trail of businesses portray her as "illegit"...they could just show that she was either undecided about what she wanted to do, or wasn't very good at setting up her own business...maybe she wanted to do it but couldn't stick with it...so hard to say.

How could a Real Estate agent fall into bankruptcy during a real estate boom - where the starting price of a house is $400,000? In terms of commission (7% on the first $100k, and 3.5% for the next $300k), selling one bottom of the market house would bring in $17,500 in commission. Selling three houses in a year would be about $50,000. After declaring bankruptcy, Kathryn Liknes no longer had a licence to practice real estate, yet she continued to solicit properties via online buy/sell websites. Perhaps she was undecided about her career at the age of 53, but there must be some story to go along with a realtor declaring bankruptcy under those conditions.

 

[julydarling]

The accused is an uncle only to the children of his siblings.

According to Alvin's son Allen, the last dealings between Alvin and the accused were seven years ago. I don't see any reason to doubt that, and have the patent dispute, I see no reason for Alvin or the accused to do further business together. There doesn't appear to be any business dealings between the families until the purchase of the Mazatlan condo, and I doubt that the accused had the money to invest in the property.

As ive mentioned before though... I went through the filed patents and couldn't find anything that would fit the 7 year time line.

 

[julydarling]

How could a Real Estate agent fall into bankruptcy during a real estate boom - where the starting price of a house is $400,000? In terms of commission (7% on the first $100k, and 3.5% for the next $300k), selling one bottom of the market house would bring in $17,500 in commission. Selling three houses in a year would be about $50,000. After declaring bankruptcy, Kathryn Liknes no longer had a licence to practice real estate, yet she continued to solicit properties via online buy/sell websites. Perhaps she was undecided about her career at the age of 53, but there must be some story to go along with a realtor declaring bankruptcy under those conditions.

So there are over 5000 realtors in calgary. Many many of them started cutting comissions to get clients. With the onset of companies like welist.com and such, relators' pockets took a fair hit.
It was not uncommon for realtors to be doing listings for a quarter of what they did previously. Despite this fact, realtors still have to pay broker fees to their office, membership dues to CREB, AREA not to mention the daily costs of doing business. Everything costs. Putting up a sign? Thats $150 not including the costs of the sign itself. Listing a house on mls costs about $75. It goes on and on.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

So there are over 5000 realtors in calgary. Many many of them started cutting comissions to get clients. With the onset of companies like welist.com and such, relators' pockets took a fair hit.
It was not uncommon for realtors to be doing listings for a quarter of what they did previously. Despite this fact, realtors still have to pay broker fees to their office, membership dues to CREB, AREA not to mention the daily costs of doing business. Everything costs. Putting up a sign? Thats $150 not including the costs of the sign itself. Listing a house on mls costs about $75. It goes on and on.

Plus they have to share the commission with the buyer's realtor.

 

[julydarling]

Plus they have to share the commission with the buyer's realtor.

Kind of.
Typically a seller is charged 7% on the 1st 100,000 and 3% on the balance.
The buyers agent gets 3.5/1.5 but its the sellibg agents perogative as to whst they charge for their services.

 

[otto]

As ive mentioned before though... I went through the filed patents and couldn't find anything that would fit the 7 year time line.

A patent was issued in 2006, 8 years ago, and another one was requested in 2008, 6 years ago. One, or the other, must relate to the last time that the two had business dealings in relation to the patent (where the accused "altered" or modified the concept and did not receive credit).

http://patents.justia.com/inventor/alvin-liknes

 

[otto]

Kind of.
Typically a seller is charged 7% on the 1st 100,000 and 3% on the balance.
The buyers agent gets 3.5/1.5 but its the sellibg agents perogative as to whst they charge for their services.

Clearly I'm only familiar with the huge commission from the seller's perspective ... what the realtors do between themselves ... don't know anything about it. Any thoughts on how a realtor could go bankrupt in a market like that ... where the cheapest houses cost $400k?

 

[julydarling]

A patent was issued in 2006, 8 years ago, and another one was requested in 2008, 6 years ago. One, or the other, must relate to the last time that the two had business dealings in relation to the patent (where the accused "altered" or modified the concept and did not receive credit).

http://patents.justia.com/inventor/alvin-liknes

Thats what I was trying to figure out... I think it may be a case of the son speaking in a broad sense, but I would think given the circumstances he would know precisely how long it was since they had contact.

 

[julydarling]

Clearly I'm only familiar with the huge commission from the seller's perspective ... what the realtors do between themselves ... don't know anything about it. Any thoughts one how a realtor could go bankrupt in a market like that ... where the cheapest houses cost $400k?

Oh yes. I saw and have seen it several times.
this is going to be a long one so im going to go find my laptop charger amd spare you copious amounts of typos from my phone

 

[otto]

Thats what I was trying to figure out... I think it may be a case of the son speaking in a broad sense, but I would think given the circumstances he would know precisely how long it was since they had contact.

I agree. I think what Allen meant to say is that the last contact that he's aware of between the accused, and one of the victims, was in relation to the patent ... and as far as he remembers, it was about seven years ago.

 

[otto]

Oh yes. I saw and have seen it several times.
this is going to be a long one so im going to go find my laptop charger amd spare you copious amounts of typos from my phone

Is there an automatic suspension of licence upon declaring bankruptcy? Given that her name was not on the house title when it was sold on Dec 5, 2013, is it likely that it was personal bankruptcy? Does anyone know how it works if one spouse declares personal bankruptcy and not the other ... is that possible?

 

[julydarling]

Clearly I'm only familiar with the huge commission from the seller's perspective ... what the realtors do between themselves ... don't know anything about it. Any thoughts on how a realtor could go bankrupt in a market like that ... where the cheapest houses cost $400k?

Ok, here we go

So back in 2006-2007 which I believe is the time frame KL was a realtor the cheapest houses were not $400K. I would say $300K.
So, lets assume that KL listed and sold a house for $325K and got full commissions for the selling portion (3.5/1.5). That would be $6875.
We are also going to assume that the house was sold in a month.
KL has to pay the following (and a rough estimate)
MLS listing - $75
Sign up/down - $150
Broker (desk) fees for a month - depends on the company she was with, but usually in the neighbourhood of $250-$500
Advertising costs - $500 - $1000 (this is really easy to rack up, especially depending on the method... at that time a half page ad in the Calgary Sun was about $2,000)
Conveyancing fees - $300ish
Taxes also have to be paid on top of that = 30% taxes - $2062
Gas, maintenance on her car, any minor costs associated with an open house - $200

That would leave our hypothetical KL with $2938. Which isn't bad if you manage to sell that one house every single month.
Reality is, unless a realtor has been around a long time or has an established client base, they dont sell a house every month.
So now that $2900 has to last her.. well, who knows how long.

Its just a rough estimate, but you can see how costs add up

 

[julydarling]

Is there an automatic suspension of licence upon declaring bankruptcy? Given that her name was not on the house title when it was sold on Dec 5, 2013, is it likely that it was personal bankruptcy? Does anyone know how it works if one spouse declares personal bankruptcy and not the other ... is that possible?

CREB will suspend your license if you don't pay your dues, or incur fines. They will also suspend licenses due to infractions.... hmmm... hang on. I'm going to go do some digging!

 

[otto]

Ok, here we go

So back in 2006-2007 which I believe is the time frame KL was a realtor the cheapest houses were not $400K. I would say $300K.
So, lets assume that KL listed and sold a house for $325K and got full commissions for the selling portion (3.5/1.5). That would be $6875.
We are also going to assume that the house was sold in a month.
KL has to pay the following (and a rough estimate)
MLS listing - $75
Sign up/down - $150
Broker (desk) fees for a month - depends on the company she was with, but usually in the neighbourhood of $250-$500
Advertising costs - $500 - $1000 (this is really easy to rack up, especially depending on the method... at that time a half page ad in the Calgary Sun was about $2,000)
Conveyancing fees - $300ish
Taxes also have to be paid on top of that = 30% taxes - $2062
Gas, maintenance on her car, any minor costs associated with an open house - $200

That would leave our hypothetical KL with $2938. Which isn't bad if you manage to sell that one house every single month.
Reality is, unless a realtor has been around a long time or has an established client base, they dont sell a house every month.
So now that $2900 has to last her.. well, who knows how long.

Its just a rough estimate, but you can see how costs add up

Kathryn Liknes declared bankruptcy in 2012 when the average price of a house was $428k for 32,000 listings (link). Hopefully her experience helped in brokering a good deal in Mazatlan.

 

[julydarling]

Kathryn Liknes declared bankruptcy in 2012 when the average price of a house was $428k for 32,000 listings (link). Hopefully her experience helped in brokering a good deal in Mazatlan.

Was she still a licensed realtor in 2012?
I'm just doing some digging to find out why her license was suspended or if it was just not renewed

 

[stan laurel]

How does the auto sales company factor into this case? Is there some connection to either KL or AL, or ??

When members started posting again on AKF and Panama stuff, I decided to Google other jurisdiction for those entities and after a long sluff of sleuthing I weedled down to yet another company. And once again a company that goes no where with any info whatsoever. One would think after 15 or so companies, the odds that one might have either a website or a semblance of something looking like a company, but it's never the case.

I also wonder how much money was shuffled from one party to the next and how big that sum is in Panama or The Caymans and if one of the partner's in the shuffle was looking to get out of the partnership.

I'm still of the accomplice side of the fence, or at least of the side of the fence where the motivator was much more than a patent disptue,, maybe the patent was a way to get someone motivated towards another goal altogether.

Normally I don't speculate on such matters and I watch the news and let the law do their thing without much question, and - like other new members - this is the first go at sleuthing for me. This time round the news didn't seem right or something just didn't sit right with me in this case, and now all the sleuthing has actually reinforced that inkling that prompted me to go a-looking in the first place, if this makes sense.

 

[LoisLane]

Ok so this is an odd one,, it's for an L auto sales company registered in Alberta with an address of > NE 2 - 34 - 5 - W4 < however the only link to those coordinates is this webpage https://docs.neb-one.gc.ca/ll-eng/l..._(Tab_10)_A0X2H3_.pdf?nodeid=444730&vernum=-2

I tried other coordinate styles offered and keep coming back to this webpage above. can anyone else pinpoint this location for Alberta? At no point does anything remotely associated with auto sales come up.

If this is a lease deal, it's a huge deal, not small potatoes pipeline stuff.

After reading this and seeing that the land is 1.64ha what do you suppose the dollar figure would be? And do you know if the land belongs to AL or another family member? What would you suggest be the best option.. Lease, lump-sum, and based on market value of the land do you think its applicable or how could they determine the value against that when and if they did not forsee the intent from Trans Canada? It is obviously more valuable now then it was prior to TC's interest. Do I even make sense??