Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #12

[otto]

Were I a lawyer, I would not pursue a deal without seeing the evidence first. According to the same upthread post, that hasn't happened yet. The quote says investigators have "gone to see DG"... so that can mean anything from he's cooperating with the investigation, to they're desperate to get something before disclosure, and he's saying nothing. I would think that if DG was responsible, any deals or progress would have produced bodies by now.

Here's an interesting article regarding questioning from a defence perspective:

http://www.cbc.ca/thenational/blog/2012/06/what-to-do-when-the-police-want-to-talk-to-you.html

There is evidence of murder. Calgary detectives are no fools. It took two weeks to close the case. The evidence paints a picture from the Liknes living room to the Airdrie acreage.

Police are not desperate, but if they are allowed to speak with the accused, they will be interested in what he has to say (or not say), and his behaviour. Does he still think that he is clever?

Douglas Garland seems to be familiar enough with the law to make ends meet in his favour. He is a potentially a mass murderer. Potentially, he will bargain a 25 year sentence for the mass murder with the possibility of parole after 25 years. Perhaps he can talk himself into a 25 year parole without revealing the location of the bodies ... piggybacking on the other mass murderer that should be given a chance given his youth.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

There is evidence of murder. Calgary detectives are no fools. It took two weeks to close the case. The evidence paints a picture from the Liknes living room to the Airdrie acreage.

Police are not desperate, but if they are allowed to speak with the accused, they will be interested in what he has to say (or not say), and his behaviour. Does he still think that he is clever?

Douglas Garland seems to be familiar enough with the law to make ends meet in his favour. He is a potentially a mass murderer. Potentially, he will bargain a 25 year sentence for the mass murder with the possibility of parole after 25 years. Perhaps he can talk himself into a 25 year parole without revealing the location of the bodies ... piggybacking on the other mass murderer that should be given a chance given his youth.

It would be foolhardy though, to deal before seeing what the actual evidence is. There may be a strong defence of "not criminally responsible" to consider, the evidence of death or 1st degree may be arguable and some may be inadmissible, and if there is nothing tying DG himself to any of it, then he may be innocent and can defend himself as such.

If I were a lawyer, and my client was trying to negotiate deals with detectives against my advice, I would probably no longer represent that client.

The fact LE feels the need to see him for anything says to me that the case isn't as open and shut as everyone thinks. If they were questioning him regarding all the financials and companies that have come to light, that would make sense too.

The 14th could be interesting, but if there has been no disclosure, I would expect another appearance date to be set.

It would be nice to see that interview though... I can't find a thing about it so far.

 

[Sillybilly]

On the subject of consecutive sentencing, on March 23 2011, the Protecting Canadians by Ending Multiple Murders Act came into effect.

from:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/annualstatutes/2011_5/page-1.html

4. The Act is amended by adding the following after section 745.2:

Marginal note: Recommendation by jury — multiple murders

745.21 (1) Where a jury finds an accused guilty of murder and that accused has previously been convicted of murder, the judge presiding at the trial shall, before discharging the jury, put to them the following question:

You have found the accused guilty of murder. The law requires that I now pronounce a sentence of imprisonment for life against the accused. Do you wish to make any recommendation with respect to the period without eligibility for parole to be served for this murder consecutively to the period without eligibility for parole imposed for the previous murder? You are not required to make any recommendation, but if you do, your recommendation will be considered by me when I make my determination.


Marginal note: Application

(2) Subsection (1) applies to an offender who is convicted of murders committed on a day after the day on which this section comes into force and for which the offender is sentenced under this Act, the National Defence Act or the Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes Act.


5. The Act is amended by adding the following after section 745.5:

Marginal note: Ineligibility for parole — multiple murders

745.51 (1) At the time of the sentencing under section 745 of an offender who is convicted of murder and who has already been convicted of one or more other murders, the judge who presided at the trial of the offender or, if that judge is unable to do so, any judge of the same court may, having regard to the character of the offender, the nature of the offence and the circumstances surrounding its commission, and the recommendation, if any, made pursuant to section 745.21, by order, decide that the periods without eligibility for parole for each murder conviction are to be served consecutively.

Marginal note: Reasons

(2) The judge shall give, either orally or in writing, reasons for the decision to make or not to make an order under subsection (1).


Marginal note: Application

(3) Subsections (1) and (2) apply to an offender who is convicted of murders committed on a day after the day on which this section comes into force and for which the offender is sentenced under this Act, the National Defence Act or the Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes Act.

Just last week, Justin Bourque pled guilty to 3 counts of 1st degree murder in the killing of the 3 RCMP offices in Moncton, NB:

from:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...to-targeting-police-officers/article19997717/

Justice David Smith told the court Friday that the Crown has given notice it will seek three consecutive life sentences on the first-degree murder charges, which means Mr. Bourque would not be eligible for parole for 75 years.

 

[bullish]

I am not blaming the victims or putting down the CPS in any way with this post. I just am sharing some, imo, interesting reads regarding the other avenue being explored here of the victims being alive. (even if these reads do not pertain to this case, they are interesting). I also put a blurb regarding disposal of bodies. Wonder if DG has pigs?

*Over the years murder victims have been disposed of by secret burial, burning or acid. Water is a favorite dumping spot, especially shark filled waters. Once in a Connecticut case a wood chipper was used, in 1998 in Florida it was alligators. Two brothers in Michigan boasted of cutting up victims (yes, plural) and feeding them to their pigs. Cannibal Jeffery Dahmer got rid of some evidence by eating it. Too often, as in the sensational New Mexico murder trial of Girlie Chew Hossencofft in 2002, no body is ever located.


http://cubiclebreak.com/how-to-disappear-faking-your-own-death/

(Look at 2.3 - Faked Murder on the site above)



http://everything2.com/title/How+to+fake+your+own+death

Er, did you actually read those pages?

From the first link:
[h=2]Summary
[/h] Let’s face it, you will most likely not be succeed at faking your own death. You will probably just reinforce the authorities belief that you have unlawfully fled prosecution for your crimes. Despite my meticulous planning and perfect execution, I was disappointed to find that I was not declared dead over 1 year later. No sir, my case was left opened and I was still a fugitive at large.

And from the second link:

Suicide and Murder are the two easiest to fake, unless you live in a town with an excellent police department, or have a suspicious parent/guardian/spouse who loves/hates you a whole lot and has lots of money to spend.

So, likely won't be successful, and murder is not easy to fake in a town with an excellent police department, which I suggest that CPS is.

As for faking physical forensic evidence - from the first link:
Smears of blood, teeth and body parts such as fingers are often sufficient identifiers, but use your imagination.
And from the second link:
Create a murder scene. Envision an enemy in your head and how they would most likely kill you. Answer these questions…. How did they get inside your house? What type of weapon was used? Was there a struggle? Always use gloves when handling anything that is being staged as the murderer’s work.

Spill Blood. You only get one chance at this, so be careful! You will need to inflict a wound upon yourself that creates enough blood show evidence of an attack.
Create Spatter. Blood spatter is used extensively to analyze crime scenes. If you can create blood spatter that correlates with your attack, you will have made a huge stride towards convincing crime scene investigators. On the other hand, if your blood spatter looks staged, it won’t take long for them to figure out that you staged this murder scene.

I think that "reading" physical forensic evidence is a little more complicated than what is suggested above and faked scenarios would likely raise questions in the minds of experienced investigators. While we don't know the extent of the physical forensic evidence found at the house, it must have been of sufficient type and quantity to conclude that the three were killed, so more than a few "smears" and a couple of "spills".

 

[Krystine]

There is evidence of murder. Calgary detectives are no fools. It took two weeks to close the case. The evidence paints a picture from the Liknes living room to the Airdrie acreage.

Police are not desperate, but if they are allowed to speak with the accused, they will be interested in what he has to say (or not say), and his behaviour. Does he still think that he is clever?

Douglas Garland seems to be familiar enough with the law to make ends meet in his favour. He is a potentially a mass murderer. Potentially, he will bargain a 25 year sentence for the mass murder with the possibility of parole after 25 years. Perhaps he can talk himself into a 25 year parole without revealing the location of the bodies ... piggybacking on the other mass murderer that should be given a chance given his youth.

Life as DG knows it is over, no matter how you cut the cards. He will be close to 80 in 25 years.

I don't know the specifics of what can be bargained, but it seems to me the only issues he might be concerned with are for his own comfort and safety while in prison.

 

[bullish]

Also here is a recent news story of Canadians fleeing Canada to Panama... Obviously this gained International attention.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/27/arthur-porter-arrested-in-panama/

OT - oh, good choice there, Harper. smh

A hospital administrator to oversee a spy agency?? Sheesh.

 

[bullish]

(snip) Probably, but a child in medical school suggests that all is well. (snip)

I wonder if he had really been accepted.

Granted, requirements might have changed since then but this is what the U of A wants from med applicants.
(1) Academic requirements:

• All applicants to the MD program must be registered in or have completed a degree program.
• The minimum requirement for admission to our program is the successful completion of at least two (2) full years of transferable post-secondary work (60 units of course weight - 10 full-course equivalents). Of this, 30 units of course weight - five full-course equivalents - must be taken during one academic year. An academic year is September 1 to April 30 inclusive. A full academic year consists of at least 18 units of course weight completed per academic year.

(2) Non-Academic Requirements:
Applicants must provide at least one entry and can provide a maximum of four entries for each type of personal activity. When applicants are filling out this section they should be selective and concise in their responses, and should provide sufficient information including time commitment of an activity for an evaluator. Each activity will require a contact who can verify the information.

1. Employment Record: Include a brief description of the nature of the work, your responsibilities, and the total number of hours worked in each position.
2. Awards: List and describe any awards you have received recognizing your achievements in academic and non-academic domains. Please list the monetary value of the award if applicable.
3. Leadership Roles: List and briefly describe areas where you have provided a major leadership role. This applies to scholastic, sports, volunteerism, arts and community activities. Include in your description the time commitment of each activity.
4. Volunteer Work: Include total number of hours worked in each activity and a brief description of your responsibilities.
5. Diversity of Experience: Diversity of experience encompasses many domains including, but not limited to, achievements and experiences in: arts and music, sports and athletics, science and research, languages and communication, cultural and ethnic experiences, and travel. Include in your description the significance and time commitment of each activity.
6. Is there anything else relevant to your application that you feel the committee should take into consideration? This question is not scored; however, additional information will be taken into consideration with your application.

Acceptance to med schools has always been very competitive and having known a few people who already had their B.Sc. be declined, I wonder if DG would even have been accepted with only 2 years completed (assuming it's true that he was expelled in his 3rd year).

But even apart from the academic requirements, cast your eyes over the non-academic requirements. Do you see DG fitting any one of those and being able to provide someone to verify each of them?


http://www.med.ualberta.ca/admissions/md/applying
http://www.med.ualberta.ca/admissions/md/applying/requirements
http://www.med.ualberta.ca/admissions/md/applying/nonacademic-criteria

 

[Cherchri]

It would be foolhardy though, to deal before seeing what the actual evidence is. There may be a strong defence of "not criminally responsible" to consider, the evidence of death or 1st degree may be arguable and some may be inadmissible, and if there is nothing tying DG himself to any of it, then he may be innocent and can defend himself as such.

If I were a lawyer, and my client was trying to negotiate deals with detectives against my advice, I would probably no longer represent that client.

The fact LE feels the need to see him for anything says to me that the case isn't as open and shut as everyone thinks. If they were questioning him regarding all the financials and companies that have come to light, that would make sense too.

The 14th could be interesting, but if there has been no disclosure, I would expect another appearance date to be set.

It would be nice to see that interview though... I can't find a thing about it so far.

Aaah but they have seen the evidence ...........Douglas Garland makes first court appearance in triple murder ...BBM
globalnews.ca/.../douglas-garland-to-make-court-appearance-in-missing-cal...
by Melissa Ramsay - Jul 16, 2014 - WATCH: Douglas Garland appeared in Calgary court by ... was put over till Aug 14th, to allow time for evidence to be disclosed to the defence.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Aaah but they have seen the evidence ...........Douglas Garland makes first court appearance in triple murder ...BBM
globalnews.ca/.../douglas-garland-to-make-court-appearance-in-missing-cal...
by Melissa Ramsay - Jul 16, 2014 - WATCH: Douglas Garland appeared in Calgary court by ... was put over till Aug 14th, to allow time for evidence to be disclosed to the defence.

Please read post #1039 above.

 

[goodasgold]

Er, did you actually read those pages?

From the first link:
[h=2]Summary
[/h] Let’s face it, you will most likely not be succeed at faking your own death. You will probably just reinforce the authorities belief that you have unlawfully fled prosecution for your crimes. Despite my meticulous planning and perfect execution, I was disappointed to find that I was not declared dead over 1 year later. No sir, my case was left opened and I was still a fugitive at large.

And from the second link:

Suicide and Murder are the two easiest to fake, unless you live in a town with an excellent police department, or have a suspicious parent/guardian/spouse who loves/hates you a whole lot and has lots of money to spend.

So, likely won't be successful, and murder is not easy to fake in a town with an excellent police department, which I suggest that CPS is.

As for faking physical forensic evidence - from the first link:
Smears of blood, teeth and body parts such as fingers are often sufficient identifiers, but use your imagination.
And from the second link:
Create a murder scene. Envision an enemy in your head and how they would most likely kill you. Answer these questions…. How did they get inside your house? What type of weapon was used? Was there a struggle? Always use gloves when handling anything that is being staged as the murderer’s work.

Spill Blood. You only get one chance at this, so be careful! You will need to inflict a wound upon yourself that creates enough blood show evidence of an attack.
Create Spatter. Blood spatter is used extensively to analyze crime scenes. If you can create blood spatter that correlates with your attack, you will have made a huge stride towards convincing crime scene investigators. On the other hand, if your blood spatter looks staged, it won’t take long for them to figure out that you staged this murder scene.

I think that "reading" physical forensic evidence is a little more complicated than what is suggested above and faked scenarios would likely raise questions in the minds of experienced investigators. While we don't know the extent of the physical forensic evidence found at the house, it must have been of sufficient type and quantity to conclude that the three were killed, so more than a few "smears" and a couple of "spills".

I was more interested in the fact that there are sites telling people ways to fake their own deaths. I wonder how many people would actually attempt this. Bizarre.

 

[Coldpizza]

New thread, this one will close in 5 minutes.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...an-O-Brien-5-Calgary-30-June-2014-*ARREST*-13