Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #12

[CentralAlberta]

Good info YYC Lady. If LE have been to speak with accused several times could it be that DG simply does not speak? and LE keep trying to break the shell? IMO I just don't see DG talking or pleading guilt for a lessor sentence. He likely realizes he is in jail for life either way if found guilty. What could be the bargaining chip?

I think they are pressuring him to tell them where the bodies are. Maybe get one or both of the first degree charges reduced. IDK

 

[CentralAlberta]

Perhaps the accused wants to talk to police. Perhaps he's curious about the investigation. Maybe he thinks he's so clever that he can talk his way out of this.

The prosecutor has 30 days from the time of arrest to release discovery related to the arrest.

Ha that wouldn't surprise me one bit:scared:

 

[winnnancy]

LE has not said much about the parents of DG nor the other sister. I think PG was only mentioned as she is married to the son of one of the victims.

A local tale:
I attended a birthday party with my then 6 year old daughter.
As I sat poised at the bottom of a colourful wavy slide waiting for my child to descend so I can capture it on film, a young boy of 9 or 10 came down.
All I heard as I sat with my camera was " I can beat the sh$t out of you even if you are a grown up"
I looked around and realized, I was the only one there...
He was speaking to me!!!! And I addressed this with the mom.
Two years later, he has a male teaching assistant with him all the time because he punched the elementary school principal in the face. According to my daughter who is in his younger sisters class, he also stomped baby bunnies.
Parents are moving the younger child to the new school with him do he can transition easier.
I think family members and parents are very much a piece of the puzzle.

 

[otto]

I think they are pressuring him to tell them where the bodies are. Maybe get one or both of the first degree charges reduced. IDK

Maybe he wants money in exchange for body locations, like Clifford Robert Olsen in BC. Maybe the bodies are in such a condition that he is ashamed to reveal what he did.

 

[winnnancy]

Does it matter if he wet the bed? No, many kids do.
BUT if he's shown behaviors that have resulted in parents making compensatory measures.... Because of behaviors that are outside of the normal variants of children's behaviors.... Like moving to a different area, then there is an indication early on that something is not right. Family knows

 

[otto]

I think they are pressuring him to tell them where the bodies are. Maybe get one or both of the first degree charges reduced. IDK

I do not believe that the charges will be reduced from first degree to second degree. First degree for the two planned murders, second degree for Nathan, served concurrently means that he is eligible for parole in 25 years. 25 year and parole eligibility is standard for first degree murder convictions.

 

[otto]

A local tale:
I attended a birthday party with my then 6 year old daughter.
As I sat poised at the bottom of a colourful wavy slide waiting for my child to descend so I can capture it on film, a young boy of 9 or 10 came down.
All I heard as I sat with my camera was " I can beat the sh$t out of you even if you are a grown up"
I looked around and realized, I was the only one there...
He was speaking to me!!!! And I addressed this with the mom.
Two years later, he has a male teaching assistant with him all the time because he punched the elementary school principal in the face. According to my daughter who is in his younger sisters class, he also stomped baby bunnies.
Parents are moving the younger child to the new school with him do he can transition easier.
I think family members and parents are very much a piece of the puzzle.

I completely agree. My children have a fantastic sense of humour, are well adjusted, stable, and are pursuing lives that fulfill their dreams. Douglas Garland didn't seem to have dreams, or he didn't have normal dreams. From the age of at least 18 he was cheating, getting expelled, so on. Nothing he did was genuinely focused on a productive, healthy life. Instead, he was focused on using deception to get away with something, get rich, prove to himself that he is smarter than everyone else.

Perhaps, as a pre-schooler, he was neglected. Perhaps his life was too strict. Perhaps his parents had dreams for him, and his dreams were pushed to the background. Perhaps he was born with bad genetics.

 

[Krystine]

Good info YYC Lady. If LE have been to speak with accused several times could it be that DG simply does not speak? and LE keep trying to break the shell? IMO I just don't see DG talking or pleading guilt for a lessor sentence. He likely realizes he is in jail for life either way if found guilty. What could be the bargaining chip?

It was touched on when it was reported the accused went on suicide watch. A single, set in his ways loner who has had the luxury of privacy on the home farm, and the freedom to do as he pleases would find the confines and chaos of prison extremely uncomfortable. It would offend his delicate sensibilities to be incarcerated and thrown in with other rowdy, noisy, annoying types.
By now, he has already had a good taste of what the rest of his life might be like behind bars.
If he is now co-operating, it could have a lot to do with 'quality of life' issues.
JMO

 

[otto]

Does it matter if he wet the bed? No, many kids do.
BUT if he's shown behaviors that have resulted in parents making compensatory measures.... Because of behaviors that are outside of the normal variants of children's behaviors.... Like moving to a different area, then there is an indication early on that something is not right. Family knows

I don't think that bedwetting in early childhood is remarkable on its own. Bedwetting can be tied to migraine. That is, bed wetting on its own is meaningless. However, if it is well demonstrated that there was something seriously wrong with his discipline and early childhood, or if he started bedwetting at the age of 14 when they moved to the Airdrie acreage, then bed wetting would be relevant ... in my opinion.

 

[Krystine]

I completely agree. My children have a fantastic sense of humour, are well adjusted, stable, and are pursuing lives that fulfill their dreams. Douglas Garland didn't seem to have dreams, or he didn't have normal dreams. From the age of at least 18 he was cheating, getting expelled, so on. Nothing he did was genuinely focused on a productive, healthy life. Instead, he was focused on using deception to get away with something, get rich, prove to himself that he is smarter than everyone else.

Perhaps, as a pre-schooler, he was neglected. Perhaps his life was too strict. Perhaps his parents had dreams for him, and his dreams were pushed to the background. Perhaps he was born with bad genetics.

So true. We are all a product of 'nature and nurture'. What biological characteristics are present, and how we were brought up.
We are all pretty much our parents' science experiment.

 

[otto]

So true. We are all a product of 'nature and nurture'. What biological characteristics are present, and how we were brought up.
We are all pretty much our parents' science experiment.

There are all sorts of characteristics that can be associated with an abnormal personality. Obesity, even in a family member, might indicate repressed emotional issues. Bedwetting might be related to night trauma (bad dreams), sexual abuse, migraine, repressed emotions? ... there must be more.

 

[winnnancy]

I don't think that bedwetting in early childhood is remarkable on its own. Bedwetting can be tied to migraine. That is, bed wetting on its own is meaningless. However, if it is well demonstrated that there was something seriously wrong with his discipline and early childhood, or if he started bedwetting at the age of 14 when they moved to the Airdrie acreage, then bed wetting would be relevant ... in my opinion.

This is what I've stated. However, IF this is a psychiatric DSM issue, there LIKELY would have been signs in childhood and parents would know.

 

[sublimemumma]

Good info YYC Lady. If LE have been to speak with accused several times could it be that DG simply does not speak? and LE keep trying to break the shell? IMO I just don't see DG talking or pleading guilt for a lessor sentence. He likely realizes he is in jail for life either way if found guilty. What could be the bargaining chip?

I would assume they are trying to break him into telling them where the bodies are...

 

[Tinkerbel1]

The website business was advertised back when I started looking at the kijiji ads. Approx. A month ago I guess.
Interesting that some items have been removed but likely one of the kids helped post the items and the sale. As was said already. I help my parents list things all the time. However this does seem strange as KL owned a website company. You would think she wouldn't need help with kijiji.
IMO

IMO good housekeeping activities on Kijiji by any family member during this tragedy seems strange to me. I don't think I would be able to look at anything related to that weekend at all...would just let the ads run out. Aren't they only good for 30 days? They should be done by now. JMO but seems odd they'ld be still trying to sell stuff.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

This is what I've stated. However, IF this is a psychiatric DSM issue, there LIKELY would have been signs in childhood and parents would know.

One would think so...JMO, but so many mental illness cases go undiagnosed or people just fall through the cracks. Its a big problem in Alberta. Mental illness still has a lot of stigma attached to it...IMO, in DG's parents' generation...one doesn't discuss such things...maybe one doesn't acknowledge them period. Its a very difficult thing to accept that perhaps your child "isn't right". Not every parent or person for that matter, is compassionate or supportive in the case of mental health issues. It's hard for people to understand because the affected ones look normal on the outside.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

There are all sorts of characteristics that can be associated with an abnormal personality. Obesity, even in a family member, might indicate repressed emotional issues. Bedwetting might be related to night trauma (bad dreams), sexual abuse, migraine, repressed emotions? ... there must be more.

Just for interest's sake...The Head of Psychiatry at the Royal Alex Hospital gave a talk on mental illnesses and disorders...he said that sometimes people just come that way...it's hardwired into them and there isn't necessarily an underlying psychological cause...it could be some structural abnormality or mis-firing of neurons in the brain itself. And, there are illnesses that there are no treatments for...what does a parent do with that? What does a person do with that? It's very sad IMO.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I do not believe that the charges will be reduced from first degree to second degree. First degree for the two planned murders, second degree for Nathan, served concurrently means that he is eligible for parole in 25 years. 25 year and parole eligibility is standard for first degree murder convictions.

IMO...that whole "served concurrently" thing is all wrong. If a person is guilty of 3 deaths, then they should serve for each one separately...how does doing time for all of them at once make sense? Our justice system sure has some lenient ways about it. I don't believe in Capital Punishment, but geez...at least you should have to pay for each life you take....a 3-for-1 deal just isn't right. JMO.

 

[otto]

This is what I've stated. However, IF this is a psychiatric DSM issue, there LIKELY would have been signs in childhood and parents would know.

I'm pretty sure that the parents have known that there were problems with their son since at least the time that the accused was 20 years old (1980) where he was expelled from the University of Alberta undergraduate Medical School BSc program. Did they know that there were problems before that expulsion? Probably, but a child in medical school suggests that all is well. Were they proud of the fact that he was going to be a doctor? Probably. They were pillars of their community, stepping up when a race track was going to be built too close to the Airdrie city centre (and their property). Maybe they had concerns, but they were most likely put to rest when he was accepted to the BSc medical school. After their son turned 20 and was expelled, their biggest fears probably came forward.

Did they know that their son was hiding in Vancouver under the assumed name of a deceased teenager from Alberta? Did they communicate with him at that time? Perhaps not. What did they think happened to him?

 

[Wondergirl]

On global news just a few minutes ago, they had a brief interview with the accused's lawyer. He has not received any disclosure materials and confirmed that homicide detectives have been to see DG in prison several times over past few weeks. (Reporter in VoiceOver says that such visits are not typical). Also went on to say that police continue to search surrounding areas for evidence and bodies.

So...given the multitude of visits to the accused, I wonder if there's any chance he may plead guilty? (Maybe in exchange for a reduced sentence, he tells them where to find bodies/remains?)

Thanks.

I'm not so sure about the "not so typical" comment about LE visiting inmates.

Send in Det.Sgt Jim Smyth.

JMO

 

[winnnancy]

I'm pretty sure that the parents have known that there were problems with their son since at least the time that the accused was 20 years old (1980) where he was expelled from the University of Alberta undergraduate Medical School BSc program. Did they know that there were problems before that expulsion? Probably, but a child in medical school suggests that all is well. Were they proud of the fact that he was going to be a doctor? Probably. They were pillars of their community, stepping up when a race track was going to be built too close to the Airdrie city centre (and their property). Maybe they had concerns, but they were most likely put to rest when he was accepted to the BSc medical school. After their son turned 20 and was expelled, their biggest fears probably came forward.

Did they know that their son was hiding in Vancouver under the assumed name of a deceased teenager from Alberta? Did they communicate with him at that time? Perhaps not. What did they think happened to him?

Wonder if he might not be schizophrenic ?