Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #13

[LoisLane]

Not sure if this has been posted here before, it is an interview with Police Chief Rick Hanson the day after the murder charges. It was on Breakfast Television. One thing that still gives me hope (sorry, but I am still holding out) is his last sentence where he refers to the victims as missing people. Why, can't he say missing bodies or murder victims?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PnOox1wWbIU

 

[otto]

Not sure if this has been posted here before, it is an interview with Police Chief Rick Hanson the day after the murder charges. It was on Breakfast Television. One thing that still gives me hope (sorry, but I am still holding out) is his last sentence where he refers to the victims as missing people. Why, can't he say missing bodies or murder victims?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PnOox1wWbIU

Police can only present what they know to be true. On June 30, the victims were missing. They remained "missing" until there was proof that they were dead, which happened two weeks later. Without DNA analysis, they would probably still be "missing".

 

[otto]

I originally thought along the same lines, that LE knew exactly what they were viewing as being a homicide, but were ever hopeful NO or NO and KL or AL were possibly still alive. However, it keeps bringing me back to WHY the delay with the Amber Alert? If there was cut and dry evidence of foul play, with the possibility of NO being found alive, would they not have initiated the Amber Alert right away?

There must have been clear evidence that Kathryn did not leave the crime scene alive, because the Amber Alert said that although all three were missing, Nathan may be with his grandfather.

 

[news.talk]

There must have been clear evidence that Kathryn did not leave the crime scene alive, because the Amber Alert said that although all three were missing, Nathan may be with his grandfather.

I have mentioned this before but it is worth repeating -

It is a fairly quick test to determine whether an X chromosome is present in blood. They could certainly have determined the gender of at least one blood pool, and surmised that the volume of blood loss was incompatible with life.

 

[LoisLane]

Police can only present what they know to be true. On June 30, the victims were missing. They remained "missing" until there was proof that they were dead, which happened two weeks later. Without DNA analysis, they would probably still be "missing".

Yes, I understand that. But, this interview was held after they confirmed this to be a homicide. Am I right?

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Thanks Otto. I am always curious as to the how and why of AL's habitual bankruptcies, and then I was thinking,, how did AL and KL announce their estate sale? Kijiji is one avenue they took and the other was by handing out leaflets at a casino. Now, I'm not one to say that this isn't an avenue for advertising such things but who solicits gamblers as potential buyers of stuff? Facebook and kijiji should suffice for getting a crowd but?

I am going somewhere with this.

A close friend of the family commit suicide by torching herself in her house, leaving behind a husband and 5 children. She was addicted to VLT's. Another friend who was a trader at Merryl Lynch lost his family to divorce and ended up living at the mustard seed shelter because of his addiction to VLT's.

VLT's became a fixture on the Alberta landscape in 1992.

I wonder if AL became addicted to parlaying investments - of his venture's - into the slots.

Gambling plays on the same part of the brain as cocaine does, and, it also brings in those other drug traits to get the fix, i.e., compulsive lying, stealing.

Who advertises at casinos?

Hi Stan Laurel I also know of several people who have been adversely affected by gambling. Financial loss is definitely a common denominator. As with most addiction, gambling does incite behaviours that may be morally and/or legally wrong. It also definitely seems to affect a person's integrity as they do take on behaviour that they normally may not have had. At first with minor things...lying about whereabouts, where money went and then perhaps escalating into bigger things such as bigger lies, misrepresenting of situations in order to solicit money from friends and family, pawning jewellery (wedding rings, etc) and after further time, still bigger activities to support their habits, which could extend into criminal activities. Overall contributing to the decline of relationships, standards of living, credit ratings as well as morals, values and personal integrity. Gambling has become quite a problem in Alberta, its easily accessible and generally a socially accepted recreational activity, so an easy habit to fall into. It is an addiction, with few positive outcomes. IMO It doesn't necessarily mean though that people who are addicted to gambling do move forward into criminal activity to support that habit.

Who advertises at casinos? Good question...it is an odd place to advertise.

 

[news.talk]

Yes, I understand that. But, this interview was held after they confirmed this to be a homicide. Am I right?

I think this is merely semantics... It sounds more compassionate to say "missing people" than "missing bodies" or "homicide victims." Even though they are dead, they are still 'people' and they are in fact, still missing.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Is there a job description difference between a white forensic suit and a blue forensic suit?
View attachment 57252
View attachment 57253
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2014/07/20140711-191135.html

I wonder if blue is police walking through the scene (and suit not to contaminate/cross contaminate as someone mentioned in the thread) and the white is the actual lab/science investigators for ME(?)

 

[otto]

I have mentioned this before but it is worth repeating -

It is a fairly quick test to determine whether an X chromosome is present in blood. They could certainly have determined the gender of at least one blood pool, and surmised that the volume of blood loss was incompatible with life.

That would be difficult to determine from blood alone with three victims, wouldn't it? How would they know if all the blood came from one victim, or three victims? There must have been something in addition to the blood where they could say that the female victim was deceased because of blood and something else, perhaps something that was connected with the blood.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

One thing that i have always been curious about is if LE knew from the very beginning it was a possible murder and there was blood in the house (which they must have known to have ME there the first day) why they would just say they are looking for the green truck driver because he may have information. Usually they would say he may be dangerous do not approach or use caution if around him, etc. Not just that this person may have information. They arrived to a murder scene where three people could have died. JMO

Maybe LE was hopeful NO was spared and in the company of the suspect and didn't want to 'scare' the suspect into thinking they were after him for murder and make the suspect panic and do something rash. I think it was strategic to 'relax' the suspect and let him think LE didn't have a clue so he wouldn't feel he had to harm anyone in his company. Just a guess though, as I have no idea really.

 

[otto]

Yes, I understand that. But, this interview was held after they confirmed this to be a homicide. Am I right?

I see what you're saying ... sorry, I missed the distinction. I suppose that the police chief is being polite when he says that they are working hard to find the missing people. It does seem more sensitive than to say the murder victims, bodies, or remains, as it humanizes the victims. I didn't listen to the entire 5 minute interview again. If he specified earlier in the interview that the missing people are deceased, then perhaps he's using consistent terminology, and perhaps he's being polite.

 

[news.talk]

That would be difficult to determine from blood alone with three victims, wouldn't it? How would they know if all the blood came from one victim, or three victims? There must have been something in addition to the blood where they could say that the female victim was deceased because of blood and something else, perhaps something that was connected with the blood.

I have long surmised that there was other human matter present. I would also think that the blood pools weren't all joined together but rather in separate spots.

 

[otto]

I have long surmised that there was other human matter present. I would also think that the blood pools weren't all joined together but rather in separate spots.

I think so too. I can't help but think that this was an extremely violent crime scene, where dismemberment is a possibility.

Does anyone have the photo of the elbow of the accused that was posted around the time that he was arrested? I keep thinking back to that injury, trying to figure out how it happened. If anyone has it handy, please post again.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Not sure if this has been posted here before, it is an interview with Police Chief Rick Hanson the day after the murder charges. It was on Breakfast Television. One thing that still gives me hope (sorry, but I am still holding out) is his last sentence where he refers to the victims as missing people. Why, can't he say missing bodies or murder victims?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PnOox1wWbIU

I'm with ya LoisLane, I'll have the tiniest, tiniest speck of hope (against all logic) until they find the bodies or remains LE is frantically looking for. Frantically is probably the wrong word, but if LE is still actively looking them then I'll hold that hope until the trio are found and brought home for a proper burial.

 

[Cherchri]

I think so too. I can't help but think that this was an extremely violent crime scene, where dismemberment is a possibility.

Does anyone have the photo of the elbow of the accused that was posted around the time that he was arrested? I keep thinking back to that injury, trying to figure out how it happened. If anyone has it handy, please post again.

It was me who posted that pic but sadly I no longer have it nor can I seem to find it online. It was probably two threads back. Apologies.

 

[otto]

I'm with ya LoisLane, I'll have the tiniest, tiniest speck of hope (against all logic) until they find the bodies or remains LE is frantically looking for. Frantically is probably the wrong word, but if LE is still actively looking them then I'll hold that hope until the trio are found and brought home for a proper burial.

Clearly, there is no evidence that anything was done to the victims on the Airdrie property. If lye, acid, or other chemicals were used to destroy the bodies, there would have been evidence on the property ... that is, it's not possible to use chemicals and not leave residue. It's impossible that anything was put down the drain as it would have destroyed the septic tank. Police are still looking for the victims, and it must be an impossible task given the area that has to be searched.

August 20, 2014 3:59 pm
"Police have been searching for the bodies of Alvin and Kathryn Liknes and Nathan O’Brien since they disappeared at the end of June. ... “The investigators continue to work diligently and long hours, until such time we’re able to provide answers to the family.”

http://globalnews.ca/news/1518228/high-profile-murder-cases-taking-toll-on-calgary-police-officers/

 

[otto]

It was me who posted that pic but sadly I no longer have it nor can I seem to find it online. It was probably two threads back. Apologies.

I was thinking that people that use weapons (not a gun) often injure themselves in the process. Having another look at that injury might give us a clue about the weapon that was used. For example, people that use a knife often accidentally slide their hands down the knife as it gets wet with blood, leaving them with cuts on the palms of their hands, or the insides of their fingers.

 

[Cherchri]

I think so too. I can't help but think that this was an extremely violent crime scene, where dismemberment is a possibility.

Does anyone have the photo of the elbow of the accused that was posted around the time that he was arrested? I keep thinking back to that injury, trying to figure out how it happened. If anyone has it handy, please post again.

Aaah! Found it.

 

[news.talk]

I was thinking that people that use weapons (not a gun) often injure themselves in the process. Having another look at that injury might give us a clue about the weapon that was used. For example, people that use a knife often accidentally slide their hands down the knife as it gets wet with blood, leaving them with cuts on the palms of their hands, or the insides of their fingers.

In all the photos I have seen of the suspect, I carefully looked for those types of injuries. I also saw some of the perp-walk photos from raw footage. I could not find any injuries consistent with a knife attack or any that suggested a struggle. I could only deduce from the lack of injuries that the attacks must have been swift blows (bludgening). It would also explain much of the other information we know.

 

[winnnancy]

Aaah! Found it. View attachment 57273

Can anyone zoom in and enlarge?