Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #13

[news.talk]

Aaah! Found it. View attachment 57273

That could be indicative of almost any type of 'banging' into something - could just as likely been from outside the crime as it could from the commission of said crime.

 

[otto]

Not sure if this helps ... will have another look at it tomorrow.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...ng-missing-boy-grandparents-article-1.1869061

 

[Cherchri]

In all the photos I have seen of the suspect, I carefully looked for those types of injuries. I also saw some of the perp-walk photos from raw footage. I could not find any injuries consistent with a knife attack or any that suggested a struggle. I could only deduce from the lack of injuries that the attacks must have been swift blows (bludgening). It would also explain much of the other information we know.

Likewise. When I originally posted the picture highlighting his elbow, I believe I said it looked a bit gnarly. I suspect the bluish tinge is a shadow rather than a bruise or an injury. I did see his palms in one or two shots and no signs of injury. I speculated (reluctantly) that the victims were bludgeoned with something like a tyre iron whilst sleeping. I feel sick writing this but that is the scenario that plays out in my mind. I still feel they were transported to the acreage, doused in lye and then incinerated. There is much information online affirming that this is a very effective means of disposing of a human body. He would then likely have removed the ashes and scattered them elsewhere. I have a sense that he would go to Drumheller. The company that he modified the patented device for shows an address in Drumheller. Drumheller being a giant graveyard to begin with and the business he was so aggrieved over would be the ultimate irony. Speculation if course - but that is how this all plays out for me.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Clearly, there is no evidence that anything was done to the victims on the Airdrie property. If lye, acid, or other chemicals were used to destroy the bodies, there would have been evidence on the property ... that is, it's not possible to use chemicals and not leave residue. It's impossible that anything was put down the drain as it would have destroyed the septic tank. Police are still looking for the victims, and it must be an impossible task given the area that has to be searched.

August 20, 2014 3:59 pm
"Police have been searching for the bodies of Alvin and Kathryn Liknes and Nathan O’Brien since they disappeared at the end of June. ... “The investigators continue to work diligently and long hours, until such time we’re able to provide answers to the family.”

http://globalnews.ca/news/1518228/high-profile-murder-cases-taking-toll-on-calgary-police-officers/

Thanks otto, I read that very moving article also. Have to give LE kudos for such hard work, I hope it's all worth it and they can bring them home. Strangely I feel that if DG had any feeling whatsoever or an ounce of remorse for what he had done to little NO, I could see him putting him somewhere separate and more 'respectful' so to speak from where the other two might be. But if he has no remorse period and is a psychopath they'll be found together IMO.

 

[Cherchri]

Clearly, there is no evidence that anything was done to the victims on the Airdrie property. If lye, acid, or other chemicals were used to destroy the bodies, there would have been evidence on the property ... that is, it's not possible to use chemicals and not leave residue. It's impossible that anything was put down the drain as it would have destroyed the septic tank. Police are still looking for the victims, and it must be an impossible task given the area that has to be searched.

August 20, 2014 3:59 pm
"Police have been searching for the bodies of Alvin and Kathryn Liknes and Nathan O’Brien since they disappeared at the end of June. ... “The investigators continue to work diligently and long hours, until such time we’re able to provide answers to the family.”

http://globalnews.ca/news/1518228/high-profile-murder-cases-taking-toll-on-calgary-police-officers/

I think you will find this repulsive but interesting http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2009/12/soluble_dilemma.html

 

[Lalalacasbah]

This could be a huge coincidence, but went back and did another BC Courts search online (https://eservice.ag.gov.bc.ca/cso/criminal/file/documents.do?fileID=1712552.0007) and searched under MH again, but did full last name and only first name initial (before I did full first and full last name).

Anyways, don't think I caught this one last time - there's a charge for a MRH (instead of MKH), I want to assume the R could stand for Robert (or not, doesn't actually say) but the birth year is 1966….another coincidence, what are the odds? The violation however, is a traffic one (MVA - 146(3) Speeding contrary to highway sign) from Aug. 20th, 2005 (DG presumably back living in Alberta, but maybe was in BC for something?)

If DG was on probation and living in Alberta but made a trip to BC, caused a MVA of course he wouldn't use his real name if on probation. Maybe he had an extra alias under MRH as well as MKH. Also I googled, MRH for BC and not a lot of people of info comes up like it would for an 'actual' person, so maybe this is another alias…JMO

 

[LoriMcA]

Likewise. When I originally posted the picture highlighting his elbow, I believe I said it looked a bit gnarly. I suspect the bluish tinge is a shadow rather than a bruise or an injury. I did see his palms in one or two shots and no signs of injury. I speculated (reluctantly) that the victims were bludgeoned with something like a tyre iron whilst sleeping. I feel sick writing this but that is the scenario that plays out in my mind. I still feel they were transported to the acreage, doused in lye and then incinerated. There is much information online affirming that this is a very effective means of disposing of a human body. He would then likely have removed the ashes and scattered them elsewhere. I have a sense that he would go to Drumheller. The company that he modified the patented device for shows an address in Drumheller. Drumheller being a giant graveyard to begin with and the business he was so aggrieved over would be the ultimate irony. Speculation if course - but that is how this all plays out for me.

ITA with this scenario ...but...JMO...I think whatever remains were left after lye &/or incineration...I think...liquid or ashes or both...were disposed of closer to home...

Somewhere so vast the remains could literally 'disappear' forever....*if there were bone fragments left over.... they would have had to have been pulverized and then more chemical or burning done* ...

To me that would be just around the corner *literally*....the slough....I know personally *being stuck in one* the composition of a vast slough....standing water...beneath that growing and also rotting vegetation....and the bottom is pure muck....sometimes more than a foot of it....even with inches of the muck....it's a cesspool of...filth and decay....

MOO...It would be easily accessible...very quickly to 'get rid of'...evidence...

With the report of the greenhouse lights being on in the middle of the night and the neighbour finding that unusual...then him burning the next day...all day....very unusual for 'just household trash' to be burning 'all day'...When we used our burning barrel it was an hour tops for a weeks garbage....
JMOO...I think the slough....*I tried to think if I were wanting to just get rid of something quickly and close enough not to have to venture too far*

 

[Cherchri]

I don't remember reading this before! This puts a very different spin on his earlier crimes. We have seen many articles referring to DG as a meth cook and trafficker. It seems, if this article is accurate, he had no finished product..."This weekend’s search is not the first time authorities have descended on the Garlands farm, nor is it the first time Douglas Garland has been caught using the ID of Matthew Kemper Hartley, who died in a car crash in 1980 at age 14.

In October 1992, investigators uncovered a drug lab hidden inside a shed on the property.

Although police found no finished product, the lab contained a large quantity of chemicals used to make illegal synthetic drugs like methamphetamine.

Police charged Douglas Garland, but he disappeared soon after and evaded authorities for seven years."
http://cached.newslookup.com/cached.php? ref_id=124&siteid=2116&id=7002931&t=1404788246&__federated=1

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I'm with ya LoisLane, I'll have the tiniest, tiniest speck of hope (against all logic) until they find the bodies or remains LE is frantically looking for. Frantically is probably the wrong word, but if LE is still actively looking them then I'll hold that hope until the trio are found and brought home for a proper burial.

Me too!!

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Clearly, there is no evidence that anything was done to the victims on the Airdrie property. If lye, acid, or other chemicals were used to destroy the bodies, there would have been evidence on the property ... that is, it's not possible to use chemicals and not leave residue. It's impossible that anything was put down the drain as it would have destroyed the septic tank. Police are still looking for the victims, and it must be an impossible task given the area that has to be searched.

August 20, 2014 3:59 pm
"Police have been searching for the bodies of Alvin and Kathryn Liknes and Nathan O’Brien since they disappeared at the end of June. ... “The investigators continue to work diligently and long hours, until such time we’re able to provide answers to the family.”

http://globalnews.ca/news/1518228/high-profile-murder-cases-taking-toll-on-calgary-police-officers/

No, not clearly. Do you want to go over this again?

 

[winnnancy]

Not sure if this helps ... will have another look at it tomorrow.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...ng-missing-boy-grandparents-article-1.1869061

It's difficult to tell if his elbow is scarred along with a parallel thinner scar or if it's a reflection.
If it's scar it looks like something that might come from holding yourself up against a structure, by grasping the inner surface. The inside of a windowsill for example. Just a guess but the angle would be right

 

[news.talk]

ITA with this scenario ...but...JMO...I think whatever remains were left after lye &/or incineration...I think...liquid or ashes or both...were disposed of closer to home...

Somewhere so vast the remains could literally 'disappear' forever....*if there were bone fragments left over.... they would have had to have been pulverized and then more chemical or burning done* ...

To me that would be just around the corner *literally*....the slough....I know personally *being stuck in one* the composition of a vast slough....standing water...beneath that growing and also rotting vegetation....and the bottom is pure muck....sometimes more than a foot of it....even with inches of the muck....it's a cesspool of...filth and decay....

MOO...It would be easily accessible...very quickly to 'get rid of'...evidence...

With the report of the greenhouse lights being on in the middle of the night and the neighbour finding that unusual...then him burning the next day...all day....very unusual for 'just household trash' to be burning 'all day'...When we used our burning barrel it was an hour tops for a weeks garbage....
JMOO...I think the slough....*I tried to think if I were wanting to just get rid of something quickly and close enough not to have to venture too far*

I tend to agree that there MUST be some reason that LE became so fixated on the acreage. They must have some type of evidence that caused them to focus on that area and the surrounding possibilities. Could be something they found on his computer, truck or even at the acreage itself. They broadened their scope to include the landfills but that is standard protocol. Something has them convinced that the remains are close by because they never really focused that amount of effort elsewhere.

 

[Cherchri]

ITA with this scenario ...but...JMO...I think whatever remains were left after lye &/or incineration...I think...liquid or ashes or both...were disposed of closer to home...

Somewhere so vast the remains could literally 'disappear' forever....*if there were bone fragments left over.... they would have had to have been pulverized and then more chemical or burning done* ...

To me that would be just around the corner *literally*....the slough....I know personally *being stuck in one* the composition of a vast slough....standing water...beneath that growing and also rotting vegetation....and the bottom is pure muck....sometimes more than a foot of it....even with inches of the muck....it's a cesspool of...filth and decay....

MOO...It would be easily accessible...very quickly to 'get rid of'...evidence...

With the report of the greenhouse lights being on in the middle of the night and the neighbour finding that unusual...then him burning the next day...all day....very unusual for 'just household trash' to be burning 'all day'...When we used our burning barrel it was an hour tops for a weeks garbage....
JMOO...I think the slough....*I tried to think if I were wanting to just get rid of something quickly and close enough not to have to venture too far*

Your theory would be so much more practical and I just don't know why I am stuck on Drumheller. Foolish of me. I suppose it's because I see the ultimate, twisted irony. Seen too many weird movies

 

[news.talk]

No, not clearly. Do you want to go over this again?

Can we PLEASE!? LOL.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

It's difficult to tell if his elbow is scarred along with a parallel thinner scar or if it's a reflection.
If it's scar it looks like something that might come from holding yourself up against a structure, by grasping the inner surface. The inside of a windowsill for example. Just a guess but the angle would be right

When dragging something heavy and long, one tends to do it walking backwards so you can lean back and use your body weight, along with muscle strength. This tends to expose your elbows to whatever objects you pass by, be it a piece of house jutting out, door frames, and truck tailgates, lights, and cargo bed structure.

A cut would be a good reason to hose a sidewalk down.

Any injuries, if any, could also be completely unrelated.

 

[stan laurel]

With the report of the greenhouse lights being on in the middle of the night and the neighbour finding that unusual...then him burning the next day...all day....very unusual for 'just household trash' to be burning 'all day'

Ever try to line up which house would have seen the greenhouse lights on? the house just southeast but it's an extreme angle. Anyhoo, it appears the new google map shows the truck in the driveway, never noticed it before. can we find out what time pics were taken by google maps. it says 2014 in the screenshot but that could be copyright.

 

[LoriMcA]

Your theory would be so much more practical and I just don't know why I am stuck on Drumheller. Foolish of me. I suppose it's because I see the ultimate, twisted irony. Seen too many weird movies

Never foolish Cherchri! Every 'perhaps' and 'suppose' and input we all have...is to try & possibly HELP...I think that is why we are all here!

I've mulled over a few scenarios myself...in comparison, yours of Drumheller is much more sensible than some of mine....my mind can wander to places it should not....

I'm of the opinion...JMO...until there is something concrete ...I so want to believe they are out there and coming home.....that is my emotional side....my practical side ...well it tends to 'get right down to it'...which can be rather gruesome....sadly.

ETA: Ohhh don't get me started about weird movies...people would really get talking then *I just watched a movie called American Mary last night...oh boy...won't be again!*

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Your theory would be so much more practical and I just don't know why I am stuck on Drumheller. Foolish of me. I suppose it's because I see the ultimate, twisted irony. Seen too many weird movies

I love Drumheller (biased, I grew up there lol)! Do you think he'd do the drive with any evidence with him? I agree with the twisted irony part, I wonder where his chosen spot is...

 

[news.talk]

Your theory would be so much more practical and I just don't know why I am stuck on Drumheller. Foolish of me. I suppose it's because I see the ultimate, twisted irony. Seen too many weird movies

Occam's razor - The hypothesis with the fewest assumptions is more probable.

 

[LoriMcA]

Ever try to line up which house would have seen the greenhouse lights on? the house just southeast but it's an extreme angle. Anyhoo, it appears the new google map shows the truck in the driveway, never noticed it before. can we find out what time pics were taken by google maps. it says 2014 in the screenshot but that could be copyright.

I thought the house to the SE too...but I just looked again and possibly the house south off Rd 274 about 1/2 way west on the section...if they looked straight SE they MAY have seen the lights...IMO