Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #18

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I wonder if the first time DG was released (he wasn't yet charged for murder) if the truck was given back to him. Can his parents or someone else sign the truck out of an impound lot if he is unavailable? Maybe the vehicle listed one of his parents on the registration and insurance. The truck wouldn't even be worth recovering if it has been sitting in impound this long, it would be a substantial bill by now probably more than the truck is worth. JMO.

If he was a POI at first, was he apprehended and the ID was found on him? I wonder if he was pulled over or not at the acreage at the time he was found with the ID. If he was at the acreage the truck could have probably stayed at the property and included as part of the crime scene so he wouldn't have had access to it. If he was pulled over off the property he could have produced the ID, possibly arrested, and the truck impounded. When he was released he could have had opportunity to retrieve the vehicle unless the police had grounds to hold it. Were they actively searching the residence at this time?

So in the Times Colonist article it says the truck was taken in for testing...
He said several items have been seized from the property and sent to the crime lab for testing, along with a green pickup truck matching one seen on closed-circuit video in the Liknes's neighbourhood the night they disappeared.
http://www.timescolonist.com/police-have-other-leads-for-missing-calgary-boy-grandparents-1.1198087

I am curious how DG travelled from the police station, to the hotel, to the porch of his neighbours home. Did he take a taxi, walk, run, have a friend or family member drive him? I wonder if it was a taxi if the driver had a camera in the vehicle and if the driver went to other locations with DG prior to his final arrest on the acreage.

I am also curious if DG had a valid drivers license in his name. He could have been under suspension. IIRC he had a violation/fine/ticket for not yielding to a pedestrian. Maybe that is why he had the fake ID on him.

IIRC, the tip called in was that the truck was at the acreage, and DG was taken into custody there. He would have been searched before being taken anywhere, and the ID was probably found somewhere in that process or timeline. The ID was a bank card / credit card, so it's unlikely he would have presented it to identify himself.

If LE identified him as a family member, and owning a truck similar to the CCTV vehicle, they probably would have had a warrant to search the property and truck, or were in the process of obtaining one when DG was apprehended.

The truck was most likely taken to a facility for forensic testing.

 

[LoisLane]

Good question about the truck. When he was first arrested for the ID charges, I'm wondering if LE was allowed to 'hold' the truck for a search somehow legally somehow saying the truck was connected to the ID theft or something? Maybe they said something like 'we have to hold the vehicle to run a scan to make sure none of the parts are stolen', I have no idea if they would/could do it, but as long as it's legal, who knows.

I got the impression somehow he was on foot when leaving the hotel and found at the neighbors. I don't know why I thought that, maybe just the way I read it in MSM. But since the mention of taxis, that seems totally legit too.

About the driver's license I almost think he would have one, only because he lives with his folks. Would he be driving around illegally while living with them? Although, I've heard people on the farm a lot don't have licenses, I think the charges were so long ago he probably would've earned his license back since then and not currently have a suspension.

I wonder what the heck his neighbors think of him snooping around their porch? What do people have on their porch he would've wanted? Shovels, flashlights? I have no idea what rural folks put on their porches these days. Unless he was dodging LE and trying to hide there when he saw them following or coming.

It is an interesting hole in the timeline of DG. I assume he was being followed or tracked by LE and arrested at the moment there was a potential risk of civillian safety, i.e. being on the neighbors porch.
I am starting to think he took a cab or some other person drove him. He may have been dropped off close to the residence and was trying to take the back way in. He must have known he would be caught. Yet, he could have been so panicked and did not think it through. It is a sure good thing he was not shot at and killed.

He probably had his own DL. The truck was most likely seized. That seems like a long walk on foot. I am surprised he wasn't apprehended immediately after leaving the hotel.

 

[LoisLane]

IIRC, the tip called in was that the truck was at the acreage, and DG was taken into custody there. He would have been searched before being taken anywhere, and the ID was probably found somewhere in that process or timeline. The ID was a bank card / credit card, so it's unlikely he would have presented it to identify himself.

If LE identified him as a family member, and owning a truck similar to the CCTV vehicle, they probably would have had a warrant to search the property and truck, or were in the process of obtaining one when DG was apprehended.

The truck was most likely taken to a facility for forensic testing.

I can't help but think that LE had more info regarding the ID and that it could have included more than just a bank/credit card but that would be too much information to release to the public. Also, depending on the type of purchase some businesses ask for photo ID when using a credit card, it isn't a popular policy but I have had to show my Photo ID even though I have a chip card and a pin.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

It is an interesting hole in the timeline of DG. I assume he was being followed or tracked by LE and arrested at the moment there was a potential risk of civillian safety, i.e. being on the neighbors porch.
I am starting to think he took a cab or some other person drove him. He may have been dropped off close to the residence and was trying to take the back way in. He must have known he would be caught. Yet, he could have been so panicked and did not think it through. It is a sure good thing he was not shot at and killed.

He probably had his own DL. The truck was most likely seized. That seems like a long walk on foot. I am surprised he wasn't apprehended immediately after leaving the hotel.

I'm not sure that it had anything to do with being a potential risk to civilian safety, but maybe....I was thinking they were just waiting for him to make a mistake. I think they had him under surveillance to see if he would lead them to the bodies. Once he broke his bail conditions, they had good cause to pick him up again. As someone had mentioned, LE probably had more on DG than they could release to the public so they just needed a reason.

He probably had gone a long stretch of time without sleeping or eating properly and was not thinking clearly....I wonder if he thought it was actually his house?

 

[news.talk]

I'm not sure that it had anything to do with being a potential risk to civilian safety, but maybe....I was thinking they were just waiting for him to make a mistake. I think they had him under surveillance to see if he would lead them to the bodies. Once he broke his bail conditions, they had good cause to pick him up again. As someone had mentioned, LE probably had more on DG than they could release to the public so they just needed a reason.

He probably had gone a long stretch of time without sleeping or eating properly and was not thinking clearly....I wonder if he thought it was actually his house?

Waaaaaay back, someone here pointed out through aerial mapping, that there was a high probability that the neighbour's porch, had a clear view of the Garland property. It is possible DG was trying to see if the coast was clear so to speak, to gain access to his property.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It is an interesting hole in the timeline of DG. I assume he was being followed or tracked by LE and arrested at the moment there was a potential risk of civillian safety, i.e. being on the neighbors porch.
I am starting to think he took a cab or some other person drove him. He may have been dropped off close to the residence and was trying to take the back way in. He must have known he would be caught. Yet, he could have been so panicked and did not think it through. It is a sure good thing he was not shot at and killed.

He probably had his own DL. The truck was most likely seized. That seems like a long walk on foot. I am surprised he wasn't apprehended immediately after leaving the hotel.

It is interesting, and IIRC didn't LE mention something about a covert operation of sorts? Maybe the taxi driver was undercover LE? Some of us assumed the hotel staff may have been undercover, but since this new taxi info, could've been that too.

So true, he is lucky he didn't get shot. I think there was still some hope to recover the victims alive, so shooting him would ruin any chance for him to tell LE where they were. Quite ballsy behavior, like you said knowing he'd *could* get caught, but probably thought he wouldn't.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Waaaaaay back, someone here pointed out through aerial mapping, that there was a high probability that the neighbour's porch, had a clear view of the Garland property. It is possible DG was trying to see if the coast was clear so to speak, to gain access to his property.

If that's the case and the victims weren't there, what in the world would he need to see or get so badly at the acreage to risk re-arrest I'm wondering?

I think some thoughts were fake ID to flee, maybe hide the weapon if it was at his home or maybe dispose of belongings from the victims he might've had, etc.

I think his parents were still absent from the acreage at this time is that right? Or were his parents still living there when he tried to get back?

 

[LoisLane]

If that's the case and the victims weren't there, what in the world would he need to see or get so badly at the acreage to risk re-arrest I'm wondering?

I think some thoughts were fake ID to flee, maybe hide the weapon if it was at his home or maybe dispose of belongings from the victims he might've had, etc.

I think his parents were still absent from the acreage at this time is that right? Or were his parents still living there when he tried to get back?

DG most likely would have caught up on the media coverage once he was released. I wonder if he went to confront the neighbor who said he was burning all night, etc.

The parents would not have been allowed on the property either and I am sure it would have been made clear to DG that know one is to enter the property.

If I was going to take off and not be found I would certainly not go back to a crime scene. He very well could have been sleep deprived as Tinkerbel pointed out and just not thinking clearly.

 

[news.talk]

DG most likely would have caught up on the media coverage once he was released. I wonder if he went to confront the neighbor who said he was burning all night, etc.

The parents would not have been allowed on the property either and I am sure it would have been made clear to DG that know one is to enter the property.

If I was going to take off and not be found I would certainly not go back to a crime scene. He very well could have been sleep deprived as Tinkerbel pointed out and just not thinking clearly.

We could also surmise, that there was *something* on his property he wanted to see if LE had discovered. It is equally possible that he was thinking about skipping town, and after checking if the coast was clear, he could sneak on to the property to get what he needed.

 

[LoisLane]

We could also surmise, that there was *something* on his property he wanted to see if LE had discovered. It is equally possible that he was thinking about skipping town, and after checking if the coast was clear, he could sneak on to the property to get what he needed.

Yes, of course that too. Such a huge risk but in the scheme of things he must not have given himself another option. I wonder how much security would have been around the property in the night time. Wouldn't LE have the area relatively contained with officers and cars? Maybe he got close and realized he would not get close enough without being spotted and in turn was busted on the neighboring property. I wonder if it was a huge take-down, chase, or quiet and straightforward.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes, of course that too. Such a huge risk but in the scheme of things he must not have given himself another option. I wonder how much security would have been around the property in the night time. Wouldn't LE have the area relatively contained with officers and cars? Maybe he got close and realized he would not get close enough without being spotted and in turn was busted on the neighboring property. I wonder if it was a huge take-down, chase, or quiet and straightforward.

I was curious about that too! If his take down was dramatic with lights and lots of LE or quiet, organized and on the down low.

Another reason I could think of for him risking going back to the acreage is that he was sitting in his hotel room going over everything that just happened - how he was just released on bail for ID theft and him thinking to himself how it was a close call, but that he got away with it (murder), he fooled LE, etc.

He might've thought he outsmarted LE and had nothing to worry about sneaking back. I sure wish I knew what he was going there to do, I wonder if LE know his plans and reasons for returning.

 

[LoriMcA]

Okay....made a little map....


Firstly, I've always wondered what he did at the motel to be asked to leave...
I read it that he was found on the deck/porch of his own house...from the article I'm posting below...the grammar is terrible...it could be read different ways....
I've also wondered ...if he got kicked out of the motel...middle of the night *midnight or so?* ...why he didn't call his lawyer...explain the situation and a 'what do I do now?' scenario...
He had to know if he left the motel he'd be re-arrested...OR...did he have an escape plan...After all...he got away with 'escape' in 1992...at least for a few years right?
Remember when he was getting his release...IIRC...he asked if he could stay at the acreage....as if he didn't know he could not....it was ...weird....
Lastly and giving DG the benefit of the doubt....a BIG benefit of the doubt....maybe he panicked when he was kicked out of the motel *for whatever reason*...and sought out the only refuge/safe haven *to him at least*...that he knew of......home.

BTW...he was travelling on foot...and he did go cross-country according to quite a few articles but this one in particular:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...le-with-grim-puzzle/article19682368/?page=all

"The quiet street was awash with flashing lights that night as neighbours said Mr. Garland crossed two open fields and was arrested on the porch of the home behind his family’s property."

If you look at the above map...or even the online Google maps....there isn't a home 'behind' their property.
JMOO

 

[LoisLane]

Okay....made a little map....
View attachment 61832

Firstly, I've always wondered what he did at the motel to be asked to leave...
I read it that he was found on the deck/porch of his own house...from the article I'm posting below...the grammar is terrible...it could be read different ways....
I've also wondered ...if he got kicked out of the motel...middle of the night *midnight or so?* ...why he didn't call his lawyer...explain the situation and a 'what do I do now?' scenario...
He had to know if he left the motel he'd be re-arrested...OR...did he have an escape plan...After all...he got away with 'escape' in 1992...at least for a few years right?
Remember when he was getting his release...IIRC...he asked if he could stay at the acreage....as if he didn't know he could not....it was ...weird....
Lastly and giving DG the benefit of the doubt....a BIG benefit of the doubt....maybe he panicked when he was kicked out of the motel *for whatever reason*...and sought out the only refuge/safe haven *to him at least*...that he knew of......home.

BTW...he was travelling on foot...and he did go cross-country according to quite a few articles but this one in particular:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...le-with-grim-puzzle/article19682368/?page=all

"The quiet street was awash with flashing lights that night as neighbours said Mr. Garland crossed two open fields and was arrested on the porch of the home behind his family’s property."

If you look at the above map...or even the online Google maps....there isn't a home 'behind' their property.
JMOO

Thanks Lori! The map is very helpful. When I have time today I will read the article.

It is possible DG was staging a situation at the hotel thinking he would have a valid excuse with LE for being kicked out. I think that would have been such a dangerous situation for a hotel staffer to kick out a paying guest. Why wouldn't they call police to keep it a peaceful manner?

 

[Cherchri]

Okay....made a little map....
View attachment 61832

Firstly, I've always wondered what he did at the motel to be asked to leave...
I read it that he was found on the deck/porch of his own house...from the article I'm posting below...the grammar is terrible...it could be read different ways....
I've also wondered ...if he got kicked out of the motel...middle of the night *midnight or so?* ...why he didn't call his lawyer...explain the situation and a 'what do I do now?' scenario...
He had to know if he left the motel he'd be re-arrested...OR...did he have an escape plan...After all...he got away with 'escape' in 1992...at least for a few years right?
Remember when he was getting his release...IIRC...he asked if he could stay at the acreage....as if he didn't know he could not....it was ...weird....
Lastly and giving DG the benefit of the doubt....a BIG benefit of the doubt....maybe he panicked when he was kicked out of the motel *for whatever reason*...and sought out the only refuge/safe haven *to him at least*...that he knew of......home.

BTW...he was travelling on foot...and he did go cross-country according to quite a few articles but this one in particular:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...le-with-grim-puzzle/article19682368/?page=all

"The quiet street was awash with flashing lights that night as neighbours said Mr. Garland crossed two open fields and was arrested on the porch of the home behind his family’s property."

If you look at the above map...or even the online Google maps....there isn't a home 'behind' their property.
JMOO

IMO LE were at/near the motel and knew exactly where he would go. It is even possible this situation was orchestrated. DG was desperate to get back to the acreage. The WHY is the question begging. Was he simply sitting on the porch or had he done what he so badly wanted to do and was he observed and only arrested thereafter? Those are lingering questions for me. Awesome map - thank you!

MSM certainly gave very different accounts of where he was re-arrested:
Garland was re-arrested very early Monday in a field not far from the Airdrie property owned by his parents where police spent days searching for clues about the missing family. He had been staying at a local hotel as part of his bail conditions stemming from the unrelated charge, but had been asked to leave.


Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/dougla...issing-calgary-family-1.1914262#ixzz3GnBXL3f0

 

[Lalalacasbah]

IMO LE were at/near the motel and knew exactly where he would go. It is even possible this situation was orchestrated. DG was desperate to get back to the acreage. The WHY is the question begging. Was he simply sitting on the porch or had he done what he so badly wanted to do and was he observed and only arrested thereafter? Those are lingering questions for me. Awesome map - thank you!

MSM certainly gave very different accounts of where he was re-arrested:
Garland was re-arrested very early Monday in a field not far from the Airdrie property owned by his parents where police spent days searching for clues about the missing family. He had been staying at a local hotel as part of his bail conditions stemming from the unrelated charge, but had been asked to leave.


Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/dougla...issing-calgary-family-1.1914262#ixzz3GnBXL3f0

Yes, why is an intriguing question for sure. I wonder if DG was 'playing dumb' in regards to pretending to not understanding his bail conditions? Kind of like his 'I can't see without my glasses' charade in court. Sorry to sound jaded, but I found his comment about glasses in court a bit of a disrespectful comment towards events happening, almost like he thought it amusing. Most people in that circumstance wouldn't be worried about their glasses! Oops, OT....

A covert orchestration of events could have happened too at the motel. Very likely. I have to say, it takes a lot to get kicked out of a hotel room, what did he do?

I remember in my youth, we would rent hotel rooms for drinking parties with the bands or after someone's wedding and got loud/obnoxious, and STILL not kicked out. Strange, that a quiet guy like DG would be asked to leave....

I wonder if there was a physical altercation of sort that was diffused, so not enough for any charges to anyone? Maybe someone snickered a snide remark to him, and he uttered a threat or something happened along those lines....

 

[Cherchri]

Yes, why is an intriguing question for sure. I wonder if DG was 'playing dumb' in regards to pretending to not understanding his bail conditions? Kind of like his 'I can't see without my glasses' charade in court. Sorry to sound jaded, but I found his comment about glasses in court a bit of a disrespectful comment towards events happening, almost like he thought it amusing. Most people in that circumstance wouldn't be worried about their glasses! Oops, OT....

A covert orchestration of events could have happened too at the motel. Very likely. I have to say, it takes a lot to get kicked out of a hotel room, what did he do?

I remember in my youth, we would rent hotel rooms for drinking parties with the bands or after someone's wedding and got loud/obnoxious, and STILL not kicked out. Strange, that a quiet guy like DG would be asked to leave....

I wonder if there was a physical altercation of sort that was diffused, so not enough for any charges to anyone? Maybe someone snickered a snide remark to him, and he uttered a threat or something happened along those lines....

I remembered this quote and have spent a couple of hours finding the link. I have used up my 10 free reads so can't open and read the entire article but it's the "covert assets" I wanted to share......

news.nationalpost.com/.../douglas-garland-silent-to-questions-on-where-bo...
Jul 15, 2014 - Douglas Garland is escorted into a Calgary police processing unit, Monday, July 14, ... Officers arrested Garland again near his parents' Airdrie property at ... referred to “covert assets” that assisted in the police investigation. Lala if you are able to read the article, please share that paragraph.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I remembered this quote and have spent a couple of hours finding the link. I have used up my 10 free reads so can't open and read the entire article but it's the "covert assets" I wanted to share......

news.nationalpost.com/.../douglas-garland-silent-to-questions-on-where-bo...
Jul 15, 2014 - Douglas Garland is escorted into a Calgary police processing unit, Monday, July 14, ... Officers arrested Garland again near his parents' Airdrie property at ... referred to “covert assets” that assisted in the police investigation. Lala if you are able to read the article, please share that paragraph.

ITA - the covert assets makes one wonder - hotel staff, taxi cab driver, hotel 'guests', etc.

Here is the paragraph Cherchri wanted shared in regards to the 'covert assets' quote:

"While Hanson wouldn’t go into the circumstances of Garland’s arrest, Garland was bound by a court-ordered curfew and likely under police surveillance at the time. During the chief’s statement to the media, Hanson referred to “covert assets” that assisted in the police investigation. (BBM)

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...arged-with-murders-of-missing-calgary-family/

 

[LoisLane]

ITA - the covert assets makes one wonder - hotel staff, taxi cab driver, hotel 'guests', etc.

Here is the paragraph Cherchri wanted shared in regards to the 'covert assets' quote:

"While Hanson wouldn’t go into the circumstances of Garland’s arrest, Garland was bound by a court-ordered curfew and likely under police surveillance at the time. During the chief’s statement to the media, Hanson referred to “covert assets” that assisted in the police investigation. (BBM)

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...arged-with-murders-of-missing-calgary-family/

This is copied from the transcript that Wendiesan provided (post #52). I believe this is the statement that the article is referencing:

"RH: There is no single piece of evidence that will be what people would like to think is a smoking gun. Investigations of this magnitude are literally dozens and dozens, over two hundred people, each involved, officers each involved in doing a particular part of the investigation and meticulously pulling pieces of information together that supports a charge in this case. So, if you're looking for one piece of information, let me tell you that when the evidence comes forward you will see the meticulousness, the thoroughness of this investigation. And, I'm not going to jeopardize the file by rolling out individual pieces of evidence. Suffice to say that this, the officers in this case, the investigators, the support services, the different investigative teams, our covert assets, everybody, every officer, every person, every analyst involved in this investigation contributed in some small way to pulling these pieces of information together. They finally, as of yesterday, removed all doubt that it was a missing persons file and supported our now firmly held belief that it's a homicide, and led to the charges of first degree murder in two cases and second degree murder for a third charge."

Also the response from RH regarding the arrest at the hotel:

"Reporter: Was he arrested at a hotel in Airdrie?"

"RH: It wasn't at a hotel in Airdrie. It was on property that was close to the, in the vicinity of the acreage."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-30-June-2014-*Media-Maps-amp-Timeline*/page3

 

[kaley]

There was an article in the Winnipeg news paper recently about an amber alert and how in order for one to be issued, very strict criteria must be met. This had me look into the same information from the Calgary Police. I found this link:

http://www.solgps.alberta.ca/safe_communities/community_awareness/Pages/amber_alert.aspx

Does anyone have a link to an article from when the amber alert for NO was first issued? I seem to remember reading that NO's amber alert was issued with an exception to this criteria. I am wondering which criteria the exception was made on. Thanks.

 

[LoisLane]

There was an article in the Winnipeg news paper recently about an amber alert and how in order for one to be issued, very strict criteria must be met. This had me look into the same information from the Calgary Police. I found this link:

http://www.solgps.alberta.ca/safe_communities/community_awareness/Pages/amber_alert.aspx

Does anyone have a link to an article from when the amber alert for NO was first issued? I seem to remember reading that NO's amber alert was issued with an exception to this criteria. I am wondering which criteria the exception was made on. Thanks.

Hi Kaley, We recently re-hashed some of the AA info. You can refer to Thread 17 around page 19. I'm sure there was more but that is all I have handy for now.

Here is the link. I posted a comment #450ish. Page 19.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...June-2014-*ARREST*-17&p=11059887#post11059887