Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #24

[Coldpizza]

Douglas Garland triple-murder trial hears dentist believes tooth found in ashes
By Meghan Grant, CBC News Posted: Feb 02, 2017

The forensic dentist, Dr. Bill Blair, testified Thursday he was asked by police to examine the dental evidence collected during the investigation.

The evidence included two teeth discovered in the Liknes home, the small tooth, and fragments of teeth found in the ashes from the farm north of Calgary where Garland lived with his elderly parents.

Using an X-ray, Blair determined there were four possible samples of teeth from the packets of incinerated material he'd received, including the one believed to be a baby tooth.

The bodies of the boy and his grandparents have never been found. It is the Crown's theory that they were killed on the farm and burned.

Video analyst Kathy McCaw drew attention to something white in the back of the green truck near the victims' home. The Crown says the green truck is Garland's. (Court exhibit)

On June 30, CCTV footage from various locations captured three sightings of the truck — at around 3:30 a.m., 5 a.m. and 7:30 a.m.

Images taken around 5 a.m. near the victims' home show something in the bed of the pickup truck, but by 7:30 a.m., the box was empty.

 

[olivebpa1]

Ok I looking back at DG's parents testimony regarding the psychiatrist call time and I'm wondering about something else.

The neighbour mentioned seeing greenhouse light on middle of night



We had police take us through the outbuildings and the basement of the home. Did they talk about going into the greenhouse yet? I don't remember if they did and so if they haven't yet I'm hoping they have saved it as they have significant evidence to talk about.

I thought they did provide evidence about the greenhouse. Nothing was found. Witness spent very little time on it since no evidence.

 

[olivebpa1]

Ok I looking back at DG's parents testimony regarding the psychiatrist call time and I'm wondering about something else.

The neighbour mentioned seeing greenhouse light on middle of night



We had police take us through the outbuildings and the basement of the home. Did they talk about going into the greenhouse yet? I don't remember if they did and so if they haven't yet I'm hoping they have saved it as they have significant evidence to talk about.

Here is the tweet about the greenhouse. Oxton said theh didn't find anything significant.

Oxton said in the greenhouse they didn't find anything of significance. #Garland #yyc https://t.co/OH9L1NanGu

 

[MistyWaters]

I think that you are right about DG wanting to go through this trial. It seems to me that he made only a half-hearted attempt to hide his crime from the police. Breaking into the home in the middle of the night seems like it had more to do with catching his victims unawares than trying to hide under the cover of darkness.

Sometimes I wonder if he hid the tapes in the rafters, not so much to hide his research from the police, as just to hide it from his parents.

Even destroying the bodies might not be about hiding the evidence, but rather about completing his obsessed plan to harm this family.

I wonder that too. And how greatly was this crime motivated by spiteful retaliation toward his own family?


While I don't know the Garlands, their situation is not uncommon. DG, an adult child living at home, his parents into their 80s. The types of discussions had to have already occurred that happen in every family with aging parents. When is it time for mom and dad to move into a care home? The family didn't appear wealthy and I'd guess Archie supported his family and acreage primarily through his Atco pension. 40 acres is not enough for anyone to viably farm. The other children of the family, both being daughters, were possibly most concerned for their mother. While DG may have helped by cutting grass and burning garbage, it's doubtful he took over any of his mother's daily tasks. If Mr Garland had began having memory issues (didn't remember the police interview), perhaps early signs of dementia, then those conversations were happening on a more frequent basis.


And what of the hoarding situation? Hoarding is not normal! I have to wonder if this was DG, filling every inch with "his stuff" bought for literally pennies at auctions, a passive aggressive means of staking his claim to HIS home in a very physical way.


Otherwise DG's personal situation was clearly an issue, perhaps living on an AISH pension of $1500 per month and had some type of commitment to attend weekly psychiatrist sessions, assumably to ensure mental stability. He had already been convicted of setting up a meth lab, so all and all it's very unlikely the family would embrace the idea of his living on his parent's property all alone, even temporarily, without anyone to watch over him.


It been mentioned DGs parents allowed them to live on their acreage for years longer than they might have been able to otherwise, if not for his helping them out. I sort of disagree. I think once DG moved back home as an adult, after he was released from jail, to him it become a lifetime. Indeed some things parents do out of kindness (or for what's perceived as unconditional love, yada, yada) can much later prove to bite them in the butt. If only we could see into the future.


But a time of forced change was soon approaching DG. That he may have been pressured to make changes in his living arrangement, I suspect someone with a selfish, entitled type of personality might consider that to be bullying, justifiable or not, bulling is a lot about perception. Regardless it may have caused him a high level of internal seething rage and hostility. Is that where the torture and gore come in? It would seem to me the two go hand in hand:-(


Then did planning and executing the murders from his perspective become a perverse and distorted form of punishment toward his family?


If my theory is correct, also consider the irony in his choice in victims, the timing and their own impending phase of life which he intentionally destroyed. A respected, happy, surrounded by family and friends couple just in the final stage of preparing to move to a different place. They represented everything that DG did not.


DG already had spent time in jail. The structured, confined type of existence might seem a attractive option to an antisocial, loner sort of personality.


Sorry, wrote more than I intended, All My Opinion, in Sadness.

 

[Tealgrove]

I wonder that too. And how greatly was this crime motivated by spiteful retaliation toward his own family?


While I don't know the Garlands, their situation is not uncommon. DG, an adult child living at home, his parents into their 80s. The types of discussions had to have already occurred that happen in every family with aging parents. When is it time for mom and dad to move into a care home? The family didn't appear wealthy and I'd guess Archie supported his family and acreage primarily through his Atco pension. 40 acres is not enough for anyone to viably farm. The other children of the family, both being daughters, were possibly most concerned for their mother. While DG may have helped by cutting grass and burning garbage, it's doubtful he took over any of his mother's daily tasks. If Mr Garland had began having memory issues (didn't remember the police interview), perhaps early signs of dementia, then those conversations were happening on a more frequent basis.


And what of the hoarding situation? Hoarding is not normal! I have to wonder if this was DG, filling every inch with "his stuff" bought for literally pennies at auctions, a passive aggressive means of staking his claim to HIS home in a very physical way.


Otherwise DG's personal situation was clearly an issue, perhaps living on an AISH pension of $1500 per month and had some type of commitment to attend weekly psychiatrist sessions, assumably to ensure mental stability. He had already been convicted of setting up a meth lab, so all and all it's very unlikely the family would embrace the idea of his living on his parent's property all alone, even temporarily, without anyone to watch over him.


It been mentioned DGs parents allowed them to live on their acreage for years longer than they might have been able to otherwise, if not for his helping them out. I sort of disagree. I think once DG moved back home as an adult, after he was released from jail, to him it become a lifetime. Indeed some things parents do out of kindness (or for what's perceived as unconditional love, yada, yada) can much later prove to bite them in the butt. If only we could see into the future.


But a time of forced change was soon approaching DG. That he may have been pressured to make changes in his living arrangement, I suspect someone with a selfish, entitled type of personality might consider that to be bullying, justifiable or not, bulling is a lot about perception. Regardless it may have caused him a high level of internal seething rage and hostility. Is that where the torture and gore come in? It would seem to me the two go hand in hand:-(


Then did planning and executing the murders from his perspective become a perverse and distorted form of punishment toward his family?


If my theory is correct, also consider the irony in his choice in victims, the timing and their own impending phase of life which he intentionally destroyed. A respected, happy, surrounded by family and friends couple just in the final stage of preparing to move to a different place. They represented everything that DG did not.


DG already had spent time in jail. The structured, confined type of existence might seem a attractive option to an antisocial, loner sort of personality.


Sorry, wrote more than I intended, All My Opinion, in Sadness.

Now that's an angle I had never considered and a great theory. It's unfortunate that we are never going to know what is really going on in DG's head.

I said earlier that I considered DG a "case study" and I meant that from a psychological point of view.

I'm always trying to figure out what goes on in someone's head. What provokes them, soothes them, makes them happy or sad? How does an event like a dispute over a patent become the murder of 3 people? It fascinates me how the human brain works or misfires.

Thank you for putting forth your theory. More for me to go and think about. As if I haven't got enough to think about now. LOL :thinking:

 

[dogmatica]

I keep wondering that if Douglas knew that he would be caught, if he had any idea in his mind that somehow the trail would lead back to him, would he have spared Nathan's life? Did he only kill him because he wanted to get rid of the evidence, so to speak, or is he just a cold-hearted *advertiser censored*?

With what we know of the level of his hatred and wanting AL to suffer - I think, sadly, it's entirely possible that when he realized he had NO too, that this was an extra level of pain and suffering he could extract. What better way to cause the ultimate suffering to this man - to murder his grandson. Horrifying but totally a possibility.

 

[dogmatica]

... just responding to an morning comment about yesterday's news ....

The ME simply does not know whether anyone was alive when they left the Liknes home, and the answer she gave should be "I don't know". The prosecution wants us to assume that maybe alive and maybe dead means that they were alive, but it's equally possible that they were not alive. In fact, given the extensive blood outside the house reported in the news, it's very likely they were not alive.

Additionally, an experienced ME should be capable of estimating how many litres (and there were litres) of blood were at the scene, and to make an educated statement related to the estimation of amount of blood at the scene.

Can you site any sources to back these claims up (re: the blood loss and what an experienced ME should be able to state)?

 

[Leader6518]

So from what I seen today from the tweets, DG Truck was seen on CCTV in the neighbourhood of the Liknes' on June 12th as well.

Then on June 30th it was seen at 3:24-3:31 on CCTV
Next it is seen at 5:15 on McLeod Trail with "white object" in truck box
Then seen again travelling opposite direction on McLeod Trail at 7:37 am w/empty truck box
Around 8 am. CCTV captures truck in Liknes neighbourhood again
And just after 9am again on CCTV outside W. Calgary Dental (Dental and Psychiatrist are at same location)


Bill Graveland ‏@BillGraveland 22s23 seconds ago
Re: truck videos McCaw said there were several sightings of a pick up between 3:24 and 3:31 am, June 30, 2014. Again at 5 am and 8 am.

Nancy Hixt ‏@NancyHixt 1m1 minute ago
McCaw CCTV June 30/14 5:15am-appears to have "white" contents in back-7:37am drives in opposite direction and has nothing in box

Lucie Edwardson ‏@MetroLucie 2m2 minutes ago
Another CCTV video from West Calgary Dental on June 30, 2014 just after 9 a.m. shows a truck that appears to be the same

To me it sounds like DG arrived at the Liknes home sometime around 3:31 as seen by neighbours CCTV. He was captured again around 5, presumably leaving and then 5:15 he is on McLeod outside Buddha's Veggie with something in his cab.

His father testified DG had showered at 7:30, or around 7 - then clarified after Defence asked that it was more like 7:15 am.

Reid Fiest ‏@ReidFiest 10s10 seconds ago
The next morning (June 30) Archie says he heard Douglas in the shower around 7:30am. #yyc #Garland

Meghan Grant ‏@CBCMeg 44s45 seconds ago
Douglas #Garland had supper w/ parents on June 29. Archie says he wasn't aware of anyone leaving acreage. Douglas showered at 7 next morn

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney 1m1 minute ago
Defence suggesting it was 7:15 a.m. when accused was at home Monday June 30, 2014. Archie #Garland agrees

Reid Fiest ‏@ReidFiest 1m1 minute ago
Archie clarified that the time he heard Douglas in the shower was around 7:15am on June 30, 2014 #yyc #garland


We are to believe that DG left the house sometime after 7:15, to be spotted on McLeod Trail again by 7:37, now with an empty truck box. Drives by the Liknes residence at approx 8am. And get to his appointment with Dr. Fischer by 8:30.

We know that he had a long standing appointment with his Pyschiatrist Dr. Thomas Fischer every Monday from 8-9. Receptionist called that day of the 30th and spoke with AG because DG was late, which was unusual. DG finally arrived at his appointment that day, half hour late (8:30) She also stated she did not notice any marks on him.

Kevin Martin ‏@KMartinCourts 4m4 minutes ago
According to agreed facts receptionist at Garland's medical appointment saw no marks on him. #Garland

Hope that helps

Keep in mind DG's dad was on pain meds then, too. He said he slept most of the time, so it is possible his memory was manipulated some.

 

[Satchie]

It surprises me that he chose the night before his weekly appointment to commit the crimes, tho I'm grateful to hear it, as it means he was under time pressure that I hope reduced or even eliminated any suffering by the victims.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[Satchie]

Welcome.
I agree with you, I think the Crown has a very deliberate trial strategy. It's not designed to satisfy our curiosity or desire to know the facts. I think it's designed to break up the evidence methodically and in a way that minimizes the ability of the defence to gain any ground in cross examination. I think they're doing a really good job, and I'm quite ok with being patient and watching the truth unfold.
IMO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Also, the prosecution is extremely careful not to introduce anything into the trial that can be successfully appealed as violating the rights of the accused. Every defense lawyer is watching like a hawk for the prosecution/witnesses to make the tiniest mistake so that if their client is convicted they can appeal on some claim of bias, get the trial thrown out and hope for better luck next time.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[otto]

So from what I seen today from the tweets, DG Truck was seen on CCTV in the neighbourhood of the Liknes' on June 12th as well.

Then on June 30th it was seen at 3:24-3:31 on CCTV
Next it is seen at 5:15 on McLeod Trail with "white object" in truck box
Then seen again travelling opposite direction on McLeod Trail at 7:37 am w/empty truck box
Around 8 am. CCTV captures truck in Liknes neighbourhood again
And just after 9am again on CCTV outside W. Calgary Dental (Dental and Psychiatrist are at same location)


Bill Graveland ‏@BillGraveland 22s23 seconds ago
Re: truck videos McCaw said there were several sightings of a pick up between 3:24 and 3:31 am, June 30, 2014. Again at 5 am and 8 am.

Nancy Hixt ‏@NancyHixt 1m1 minute ago
McCaw CCTV June 30/14 5:15am-appears to have "white" contents in back-7:37am drives in opposite direction and has nothing in box

Lucie Edwardson ‏@MetroLucie 2m2 minutes ago
Another CCTV video from West Calgary Dental on June 30, 2014 just after 9 a.m. shows a truck that appears to be the same

To me it sounds like DG arrived at the Liknes home sometime around 3:31 as seen by neighbours CCTV. He was captured again around 5, presumably leaving and then 5:15 he is on McLeod outside Buddha's Veggie with something in his cab.

His father testified DG had showered at 7:30, or around 7 - then clarified after Defence asked that it was more like 7:15 am.

Reid Fiest ‏@ReidFiest 10s10 seconds ago
The next morning (June 30) Archie says he heard Douglas in the shower around 7:30am. #yyc #Garland

Meghan Grant ‏@CBCMeg 44s45 seconds ago
Douglas #Garland had supper w/ parents on June 29. Archie says he wasn't aware of anyone leaving acreage. Douglas showered at 7 next morn

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney 1m1 minute ago
Defence suggesting it was 7:15 a.m. when accused was at home Monday June 30, 2014. Archie #Garland agrees

Reid Fiest ‏@ReidFiest 1m1 minute ago
Archie clarified that the time he heard Douglas in the shower was around 7:15am on June 30, 2014 #yyc #garland


We are to believe that DG left the house sometime after 7:15, to be spotted on McLeod Trail again by 7:37, now with an empty truck box. Drives by the Liknes residence at approx 8am. And get to his appointment with Dr. Fischer by 8:30.

We know that he had a long standing appointment with his Pyschiatrist Dr. Thomas Fischer every Monday from 8-9. Receptionist called that day of the 30th and spoke with AG because DG was late, which was unusual. DG finally arrived at his appointment that day, half hour late (8:30) She also stated she did not notice any marks on him.

Kevin Martin ‏@KMartinCourts 4m4 minutes ago
According to agreed facts receptionist at Garland's medical appointment saw no marks on him. #Garland

Hope that helps

Very helpful! Thank you. I didn't expect that he would return to the scene of the crime, but it looks like he did. Thankfully Jennifer did not go to the house early in the morning.

I wonder why the cuts on Garland's head were not noticed. If he had secured live victims on the Airdrie property, why would he have given them a chance to injure him?

 

[JadeSLeuth]

I think DG parents will have a big sense of relief once DG is sentenced and put away for good. He's caused so much strife for them over the years. In a sense, he's ensured their golden years will be peace filled ones - knowing where he is and what he is/isn't doing and not having to worry about him any more. At least not in the same way.

 

[dogmatica]

Very helpful! Thank you. I didn't expect that he would return to the scene of the crime, but it looks like he did. Thankfully Jennifer did not go to the house early in the morning.

I wonder why the cuts on Garland's head were not noticed. If he had secured live victims on the Airdrie property, why would he have given them a chance to injure him?

Who knows? He left a ton of evidence all over the place - so if he slipped up that way, why could he not slip up in totally securing his victims? Maybe it happened at the house? Maybe he injured himself while doing his evil deeds?

 

[Satchie]

I wonder why the cuts on Garland's head were not noticed. If he had secured live victims on the Airdrie property, why would he have given them a chance to injure him?

I'm just speculating, but I imagine a receptionist in a psychiatric office deliberately wouldn't gaze closely at the face of a patient like DG, as attempting to make eye contact or being perceived as scrutinizing him would be known to make the patient uncomfortable.

The statement doesn't say that the psychiatrist didn't notice any cuts. I wonder what's going on there, I'm not familiar with legal rules around patient/client confidentiality in a case like this.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[gen_bug]

Keep in mind DG's dad was on pain meds then, too. He said he slept most of the time, so it is possible his memory was manipulated some.

Oh absolutely. I personally don’t hold much stock in AG testimony. He also stated he ate supper with his wife on the 29[SUP]th[/SUP], but his wifes testimony said her and DG ate alone because she had put AG to bed.

 

[acezenna]

From following this case, I believe they are going through piece by piece of evidence. Like peeling an onion. They found KL's DNA on a meat hook and AL and NO dna on a meat saw. They have said to have found teeth now from AL and NO in the burn barrel. They have a lot of evidence to reveal, step by step in a careful way, because of no physical bodies. I believe they are starting at one point and continuing to the other. They have already revealed the details of the hard drives found and researched material and videos of him purchasing the meat saws. It will be a long and tedious process so they don't rush and find error as they have to prove guilt without bodies.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

From following this case, I believe they are going through piece by piece of evidence. Like peeling an onion. They found KL's DNA on a meat hook and AL and NO dna on a meat saw. They have said to have found teeth now from AL and NO in the burn barrel. They have a lot of evidence to reveal, step by step in a careful way, because of no physical bodies. I believe they are starting at one point and continuing to the other. They have already revealed the details of the hard drives found and researched material and videos of him purchasing the meat saws. It will be a long and tedious process so they don't rush and find error as they have to prove guilt without bodies.

Welcome acezenna! Good post. My challenge personally is IMPATIENCE! LOL
Thanks for joining in!
:welcome6:

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Oh absolutely. I personally don’t hold much stock in AG testimony. He also stated he ate supper with his wife on the 29[SUP]th[/SUP], but his wifes testimony said her and DG ate alone because she had put AG to bed.

I wonder if the Crown put them on the stand to show that they really had no idea what was going on.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[naz]

I wonder if the Crown put them on the stand to show that they really had no idea what was going on.

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Yes, I would like to know also and I wonder why they were not asked on the stand about July 1 and later. or did I miss that?

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Yes, I would like to know also and I wonder why they were not ask on the stand about July 1 and later. or did I miss that?

Great question. Hadn't even thought of that.