Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #24

[naz]

maybe they were not there on the first and were on the second.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Someone was looking for a clear pic of the rear garage, here it is.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/crime...-had-hoped-nathan-obrien-was-hiding-somewhere



Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[lynck]

@otto looks like the shadow analysis was way off, the image of the green truck released by MSM was 08:00:25

I think I said 5pm :gaah:

I'll just stick to IT.

 

[Tealgrove]

All of the above. Also, I think that DG killed Nathan to get back at Alvin.

DG was so consumed by his grudge against Alvin that by killing Alvin's grandson, on some twisted psychological level, DG was able to destroy Alvin twice.

I can see why some would think that but I think DG was solely concerned with getting rid of evidence so he would be in the clear. Nathan was just evidence that needed to be erased. MOO. It was very cold and very calculated.

 

[otto]

How is that self-serving? She doesn't know if they were alive when they left the house - but they could've been, or not. I'm not sure what people expect of her. She's making an educated observation. Should she have definitively stated one way or the other, despite the fact she couldn't know for sure either way?

... just responding to an morning comment about yesterday's news ....

The ME simply does not know whether anyone was alive when they left the Liknes home, and the answer she gave should be "I don't know". The prosecution wants us to assume that maybe alive and maybe dead means that they were alive, but it's equally possible that they were not alive. In fact, given the extensive blood outside the house reported in the news, it's very likely they were not alive.

Additionally, an experienced ME should be capable of estimating how many litres (and there were litres) of blood were at the scene, and to make an educated statement related to the estimation of amount of blood at the scene.

 

[gen_bug]

I havent found the photos yet and wondering if this means they took photos of their property on both days?
Is there just one set of photos or two? If only one set then why did they mention two different days.

The Atlis Geomatics only has the one photo taken July 1st 2014.

Apparently Peregrine did mapping on both days. They haven't been released yet.
They will be shown in court on Monday.

You can download the one I have, here
http://www.calgaryregionopendata.ca/browse/4112

 

[Georgeo]

Was he not afraid of parking in plain sight and loading bodies into truck bed? Darkness but still .....

 

[Power of Two]

A few notes.

Sunrise was at 5:25 am on June 30, 2014 in Calgary. He got out of the City just before light. He had it timed IMO.

What was he doing all the time in the house? How much time does it take to disable 3 people?

Clearly there was a significant struggle in one bedroom. How long that went on who knows. That person, Alvin, is finally disabled, then onto Kathy and Nathan. Disable and then get everyone tied up. He wraps them in sheets and somehow drags them out to the vehicle and loads them. Isn't there evidence of some type of clean up? The driveway had been hosed down? He gets all his "equipment" put back in his black duffle bag. Maybe he has to search for all his stuff to make sure nothing gets left behind. He also had to take time to break in and drill out the lock.

I think the timing is right for just doing what he needed to do.

Finally some concrete evidence that we can worth.

If the victims were alive, which the Crown contends they were, I can't believe he left them at the Farm to go to his appointment. Man, how risky is that? But then, in his mind, he's so superior he figures that he's got it all under control and he leaves. He could have used chloroform to keep them "asleep" while he was gone.

Wow!

Chloroform or insulin?

 

[Hatfield]

Kevin MartinVerified account ‏@KMartinCourts 21s21 seconds ago
Video of shoes purportedly worn by #Garland at Princess Auto had multiple similarities to Dr. Scholl's runners.

This may be a Canada trial thing but how come the Prosecution does not flat out ask the witness a question like

"So in your opinion do you think it was the same type of shoes he had on?"

Unless I missed it the witness never says that. Even with the truck evidence he just points out all the similarities but is never asked if he thinks it is the same truck.

Why?
Is that something not allowed in Canada trial procedures?

I am pretty sure in the states the expert type witnesses are flat out asked that sort of thing.

 

[Power of Two]

A few notes.

Sunrise was at 5:25 am on June 30, 2014 in Calgary. He got out of the City just before light. He had it timed IMO.

What was he doing all the time in the house? How much time does it take to disable 3 people?

Clearly there was a significant struggle in one bedroom. How long that went on who knows. That person, Alvin, is finally disabled, then onto Kathy and Nathan. Disable and then get everyone tied up. He wraps them in sheets and somehow drags them out to the vehicle and loads them. Isn't there evidence of some type of clean up? The driveway had been hosed down? He gets all his "equipment" put back in his black duffle bag. Maybe he has to search for all his stuff to make sure nothing gets left behind. He also had to take time to break in and drill out the lock.

I think the timing is right for just doing what he needed to do.

Finally some concrete evidence that we can worth.

If the victims were alive, which the Crown contends they were, I can't believe he left them at the Farm to go to his appointment. Man, how risky is that? But then, in his mind, he's so superior he figures that he's got it all under control and he leaves. He could have used chloroform to keep them "asleep" while he was gone.

Wow!

Something is bugging me. If anyone has ever transported something in the back of an open pick up truck, you will understand. Whether it is brush, garbage, boxes, etc., you really should secure or tie down or cover your load with a tarp and bungy cords or it blows out, right? If bodies were merely wrapped in bedding and unsecured there would be a huge risk that it would be flapping around by the time he got back to the farm. Am I right? OR.... what if someone was to regain consciousness and start to crawl out from under the bedding. GAWD! What thoughts!

 

[Tealgrove]

Something is bugging me. If anyone has ever transported something in the back of an open pick up truck, you will understand. Whether it is brush, garbage, boxes, etc., you really should secure or tie down or cover your load with a tarp and bungy cords or it blows out, right? If bodies were merely wrapped in bedding and unsecured there would be a huge risk that it would be flapping around by the time he got back to the farm. Am I right?

I thought the same thing. Maybe he didn't think that part through as thoroughly as he did other parts of his plan.

 

[subwaydreaming]

Thanks for the timeline - very helpful!

I can't imagine breaking into a house, killing/injuring three people (one of whom was a surprise), bringing bodies to another location, stowing the bodies somewhere, showering, driving back to the scene, then going to a psychiatrist's appointment of all places!! Wouldn't you be mentally and physically exhausted? Wouldn't you be worried that a PSYCHIATRIST might pick up on your mood/come down from the adrenaline rush? Amazing!

Also, was the agreed fact that the psychiatrist's receptionist didn't notice any injuries on his face? What was the psychiatrist observations? Is that not admissible in court?

 

[Hatfield]

Something is bugging me. If anyone has ever transported something in the back of an open pick up truck, you will understand. Whether it is brush, garbage, boxes, etc., you really should secure or tie down or cover your load with a tarp and bungy cords or it blows out, right? If bodies were merely wrapped in bedding and unsecured there would be a huge risk that it would be flapping around by the time he got back to the farm. Am I right?

Yes it is a concern for any type of tarp or cloth covering if just thrown over the top. He could have rolled them up in the cloth so much that the weight of the bodies held it down though.

So long as he had weight on the edges of the material then it usually stays down. I have an open bed truck and haul things on occasion.

He was probably looking out the rear view mirror too and keeping an eye on it. Whenever you haul stuff in the truck bed you get into a habit of constantly looking in rear view to make sure things arent flying out or things flapping around. He would have just pulled over and fixed the edges if he had to.

As far as the bodies rolling around in the truck bed so long as he drove slowly around any turns and had them facing longways they probably would not roll around too much. I am sure he went at a slower speed around turns with them in back.

 

[Power of Two]

It is possible of course, however the Crown specifically stated that the Aerials were taken by Peregrine on July 1st and July 2nd. And I have an Aerial taken on July 1st by a different company, Atlis Geotmatics. So they were definately flying on the 1st.

Meghan Grant ‏@CBCMeg 1m1 minute ago
CROWN: Mapping plane flew over property on July 1/2 photos show 3 bodies. Alvin & Kathy facedown. Small figure in grass curled up.


Kevin Martin ‏@KMartinCourts 2m2 minutes ago
Crown tells jurors aerial photos shot by survey company July 1 and 2, 2014 "clearly show the bodies of Alvin, Kathryn and Nathan."

Although we have a vague 2 day window of the flyover photos, I am certain the company has a date and time stamp of the exact date and time the Garland property photos were taken.

 

[Power of Two]

Thanks for all the help you guys! I'll add all of your suggestions to the timeline (shower info, greenhouse, JO calling the L home, etc), and thanks also for the address help!
I'll also incorporate Snoopster's excellent driving timeline (if thats okay?).

Sorry, but I am having a problem with the 'shower' time stamp by one of the G parents. Who the heck can remember on any given day just what time anyone in their household has a flippin' shower?! I know that there are vague routines,etc. but, really? Given that many days went by before any of this crime came to light for the elder Garlands...how could either one of them been able to state that on the morning after the alleged crime that DG had his shower at a very specific time??

 

[Hatfield]

The Atlis Geomatics only has the one photo taken July 1st 2014.

Apparently Peregrine did mapping on both days. They haven't been released yet.
They will be shown in court on Monday.

You can download the one I have, here
http://www.calgaryregionopendata.ca/browse/4112

Thanks. I was able to download it but I guess I dont have the software that can open an ECW extension file. I think there is some shareware that I may be able to get to view it. I will look around for an app that can open those types of files when I have more time.

 

[Power of Two]

I keep wondering that if Douglas knew that he would be caught, if he had any idea in his mind that somehow the trail would lead back to him, would he have spared Nathan's life? Did he only kill him because he wanted to get rid of the evidence, so to speak, or is he just a cold-hearted *advertiser censored*?

Ummmm.... yes.

 

[gen_bug]

Thanks. I was able to download it but I guess I dont have the software that can open an ECW extension file. I think there is some shareware that I may be able to get to view it. I will look around for an app that can open those types of files when I have more time.

I used the program GetMapping from here
http://getmapping-viewer.software.informer.com/download/

 

[Cherchri]

The prosecution should have open the case with the aerial photos and gone from there. This trial is getting slow and sloppy IMO.

Absolutely not. It is their job to BUILD the case. They follow the timeline as it unfolded for all the investigators. It may be frustrating for us but as I have said a few times it is an iterative process. Witnesses are not allowed to venture opinions. They answer the questions that are posed. Nothing more. Nothing less. Often the prosecution will strategically not open up certain questions because they have something more revealing coming from another witness. We have to remember this is not entertainment and not like watching crime shows on TV. The pace is certain to have been carefully strategized.

 

[Hatfield]

I used the program GetMapping from here
http://getmapping-viewer.software.informer.com/download/

Thanks. Much appreciated.