Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #24

[gen_bug]

If the neighbor saw the fire on July 2 does that mean the areal picture of bodies was taken on July 1?

Amazing timeline .. Such devastating times for family and friends..

It is quite possible that the Aerial was taken at some point on July 1[SUP]st[/SUP] that shows what Crown believes to be their bodies.

In the aerial I have looked at for July 1 taken by another company (I wish I knew a time of day) there is no bodies in the southern outbuildings area, the grass there is not “chemically burnt” or destroyed as said in testimony, and can be seen in later photos.

What appears to be DG is outside one of the outbuildings up by Greenhouse.

Then Kalmbach, the neighbor notices Greenhouse light on 2-3 am (July 2nd) I believe it said, and later that morning a large fire with black smoke burning on the DG property, in area of the fire pit.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Thanks for all the help you guys! I'll add all of your suggestions to the timeline (shower info, greenhouse, JO calling the L home, etc), and thanks also for the address help!
I'll also incorporate Snoopster's excellent driving timeline (if thats okay?).

 

[Georgeo]

It is quite possible that the Aerial was taken at some point on July 1[SUP]st[/SUP] that shows what Crown believes to be their bodies.

In the aerial I have looked at for July 1 taken by another company (I wish I knew a time of day) there is no bodies in the southern outbuildings area, the grass there is not “chemically burnt” or destroyed as said in testimony, and can be seen in later photos.

What appears to be DG is outside one of the outbuildings up by Greenhouse.

Then Kalmbach, the neighbor notices Greenhouse light on 2-3 am (July 2nd) I believe it said, and later that morning a large fire with black smoke burning on the DG property, in area of the fire pit.

july 1 is stat holiday. Could photos have been taken July 2 instead?

 

[Tealgrove]

A few notes.

Sunrise was at 5:25 am on June 30, 2014 in Calgary. He got out of the City just before light. He had it timed IMO.

What was he doing all the time in the house? How much time does it take to disable 3 people?

Clearly there was a significant struggle in one bedroom. How long that went on who knows. That person, Alvin, is finally disabled, then onto Kathy and Nathan. Disable and then get everyone tied up. He wraps them in sheets and somehow drags them out to the vehicle and loads them. Isn't there evidence of some type of clean up? The driveway had been hosed down? He gets all his "equipment" put back in his black duffle bag. Maybe he has to search for all his stuff to make sure nothing gets left behind. He also had to take time to break in and drill out the lock.

I think the timing is right for just doing what he needed to do.

Finally some concrete evidence that we can worth.

If the victims were alive, which the Crown contends they were, I can't believe he left them at the Farm to go to his appointment. Man, how risky is that? But then, in his mind, he's so superior he figures that he's got it all under control and he leaves. He could have used chloroform to keep them "asleep" while he was gone.

Wow!

 

[honey bee]

Yes . I totally agree with you and frankly think this M Es testimony is a waste of time .

 

[Tealgrove]

july 1 is stat holiday. Could photos have been taken July 2 instead?

Good Point! Everything is closed on July 1st.

 

[Dodes]

Regarding the timing heading back to Airdrie and then back into town here are some parameters based on working on the hard, specific times captured going both ways on the Buddha Veggie CCTV and timing from google maps. I presumed a tiny bit faster driving on the highway than they suggest, so 30 min between Airdrie farm and Buddha’s (versus 32 minutes per Google); 5 minutes between Buddha’s and Liknes house; and, 18 minutes between Liknes and Dr. office.

5:11 likely left Liknes house
5:16 captured on Buddha’s video
5:45 likely arrived back at Airdrie farm
7:07 likely left Airdrie
7:37 captured on Buddha’s video
7:42 could have arrived at Liknes house
8:00 could have arrived at Dr office (18 min away), but still seen around this time in neighborhood
8:30 actually arrives in Dr office

Observations:

DG had a good hour to move the bodies from the truck back in Airdrie and do… what??... before heading in for his shower.

How long did DG hang around the Liknes neighbourhood before heading to his appointment. Was he worried about some possible evidence he had left behind? He had a 20 – 30 minute window here. Perhaps the morning traffic in the city slowed him down?

It's difficult to say what traffic would have been like on the morning of June 30th. That would typically be rush hour in Calgary but with the next day being a statutory holiday (Canada Day) and school being out for summer, I suspect that many people took Monday off so they could have a 4 day weekend. That being said, I used to live 6 blocks from the Southwest Dental office and there was a ton of construction happening in that area back in 2014. Actually, due to the cold winters, there's generally construction all over the city from June to October. DG may have thought he would have time to drive by the Liknes house and still make it to his appointment on time but may have been delayed due to road construction. Based on the timeline above,If he left his house at 7:07, he should have made it just in time for his appointment but instead he was half an hour late.

 

[naz]

Aerial company may fly on holidays if they are general contractors, I think. I'm just hoping it was over sooner than later .. not much to hang to when you think of that diabolic and crazy man..

 

[Sillybilly]

july 1 is stat holiday. Could photos have been taken July 2 instead?

Re the greenhouse lights and the burning, here's what we had in the old timeline:

July 2 Wednesday, sometime after midnite and before morning, a neighbour of the Garlands is awake during the night and sees a light on in the greenhouse at the Garland farm. He says that is unusual.

July 2 Neighbours notice that someone at the Garland property has been burning most of the day (elsewhere it said 2 days?)

 

[gen_bug]

It is possible of course, however the Crown specifically stated that the Aerials were taken by Peregrine on July 1st and July 2nd. And I have an Aerial taken on July 1st by a different company, Atlis Geotmatics. So they were definately flying on the 1st.

Meghan Grant ‏@CBCMeg 1m1 minute ago
CROWN: Mapping plane flew over property on July 1/2 photos show 3 bodies. Alvin & Kathy facedown. Small figure in grass curled up.


Kevin Martin ‏@KMartinCourts 2m2 minutes ago
Crown tells jurors aerial photos shot by survey company July 1 and 2, 2014 "clearly show the bodies of Alvin, Kathryn and Nathan."

 

[rabbitrun]

Regarding the timing heading back to Airdrie and then back into town here are some parameters based on working on the hard, specific times captured going both ways on the Buddha Veggie CCTV and timing from google maps. I presumed a tiny bit faster driving on the highway than they suggest, so 30 min between Airdrie farm and Buddha’s (versus 32 minutes per Google); 5 minutes between Buddha’s and Liknes house; and, 18 minutes between Liknes and Dr. office.

5:11 likely left Liknes house
5:16 captured on Buddha’s video
5:45 likely arrived back at Airdrie farm
7:07 likely left Airdrie
7:37 captured on Buddha’s video
7:42 could have arrived at Liknes house
8:00 could have arrived at Dr office (18 min away), but still seen around this time in neighborhood
8:30 actually arrives in Dr office

Observations:

DG had a good hour to move the bodies from the truck back in Airdrie and do… what??... before heading in for his shower.

How long did DG hang around the Liknes neighbourhood before heading to his appointment. Was he worried about some possible evidence he had left behind? He had a 20 – 30 minute window here. Perhaps the morning traffic in the city slowed him down?

DG had to do at least a rudimentary clean up of the truck before he showered and headed off to his appointment.

He likely performed a quick recon of the Liknes' neighbourhood to check for any police activity, in addition to enjoying the thrill of returning to the scene of the crime.

 

[Hatfield]

Bill GravelandVerified account ‏@BillGraveland 1m1 minute ago
Dr. Blair also retired this year after 30 years as the team dentist for the #CalgaryFlames. #Garland

Catching up.

Cool. As a hockey fan I never thought I would see a hockey reference in this trial. Go Flames!

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Yes . I totally agree with you and frankly think this M Es testimony is a waste of time .

Welcome honey bee!

:welcome:

 

[Slebby]

july 1 is stat holiday. Could photos have been taken July 2 instead?

July 1 is a holiday treated differently by lots of employers. Some people get the 1st off no matter what, some get the nearest Monday off instead, and actually work on the 1st. Who wants the day off mid week when they can take the Monday and have a 3 day weekend?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[kerri204]

I keep wondering that if Douglas knew that he would be caught, if he had any idea in his mind that somehow the trail would lead back to him, would he have spared Nathan's life? Did he only kill him because he wanted to get rid of the evidence, so to speak, or is he just a cold-hearted *advertiser censored*?

 

[lynck]

Pretty sure he would be panicking if he knew the photos of his truck were released by MSM too. See if you can toss that in the timeline somewhere?

MOO

 

[Bravo]

I keep wondering that if Douglas knew that he would be caught, if he had any idea in his mind that somehow the trail would lead back to him, would he have spared Nathan's life? Did he only kill him because he wanted to get rid of the evidence, so to speak, or is he just a cold-hearted *advertiser censored*?

:welcome:

 

[rabbitrun]

I keep wondering that if Douglas knew that he would be caught, if he had any idea in his mind that somehow the trail would lead back to him, would he have spared Nathan's life? Did he only kill him because he wanted to get rid of the evidence, so to speak, or is he just a cold-hearted *advertiser censored*?

All of the above. Also, I think that DG killed Nathan to get back at Alvin.

DG was so consumed by his grudge against Alvin that by killing Alvin's grandson, on some twisted psychological level, DG was able to destroy Alvin twice.

 

[Hatfield]

It is possible of course, however the Crown specifically stated that the Aerials were taken by Peregrine on July 1st and July 2nd. And I have an Aerial taken on July 1st by a different company, Atlis Geotmatics. So they were definately flying on the 1st.

Meghan Grant ‏@CBCMeg 1m1 minute ago
CROWN: Mapping plane flew over property on July 1/2 photos show 3 bodies. Alvin & Kathy facedown. Small figure in grass curled up.


Kevin Martin ‏@KMartinCourts 2m2 minutes ago
Crown tells jurors aerial photos shot by survey company July 1 and 2, 2014 "clearly show the bodies of Alvin, Kathryn and Nathan."

I havent found the photos yet and wondering if this means they took photos of their property on both days?

Is there just one set of photos or two? If only one set then why did they mention two different days.

 

[Hatfield]

All of the above. Also, I think that DG killed Nathan to get back at Alvin.

DG was so consumed by his grudge against Alvin that by killing Alvin's grandson, on some twisted psychological level, DG was able to destroy Alvin twice.

I agree.

It wouldnt have mattered if he was a 3rd-cousin-twice-removed. I bet DG didnt think twice about it. He considered them all to be his enemy in his twisted mind.