Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #26

[musicaljoke]

Thanks for that. It appears in the part I read that they are discussing a trial debriefing session program in Manitoba with the jury behind closed doors with social workers. And that the judge would authorize this program. I didn't see anything where the judge is supposed to be giving them mental health advice, from the bench, during the course of the trial. But I do know that all provinces have been reviewing the impact of PTSD on jurors and perhaps they have made this recommendation in Alberta?

It's kind of hard to explain why it seems odd that a judge who is supposed to be completely impartial and unbiased about what is legally permitted to be discussed and shown in his courtroom, while he/she is presiding over a case, is admitting to the jury that the evidence against the accused is horrific and trauma inducing, therefore influencing the jury regarding the evidence. Does that make sense?

:waitasec:

MOO

I have the opinion that the jury needs to be addressed publicly as was the case in this trial. The thoughts of social workers in the jury room is very disturbing in that we don't know if anything the social worker says can influence the jury.

It will be interesting to see if the judge's address to the jury is challenged by the accused. I certainly hope not. jmo.

 

[Female]

I also want to post that we'll likely see more things you may deem to be suspect from the judge as he gives the jury instructions. Based on the attached images our judicial system allows our judges a lot more leeway than other countries when in comes to addressing the jury.

Man I'm getting sick of finding links. I can't wait until I can just tell you all freely exactly what happened when jury is out and help your understanding and worries. The behind the scenes court process is really neat and eye opening. Takes away a lot of questions that I too would have if I wasn't seeing how it all goes down and why. Sitting in court wasn't just about the case for me it was about seeing the processes too.

 

[nettie_82]

I would want to converse with his honour, Justice ...oh now, what was his name. He could fill us in on all the evidence that never made it to court. I think that he must be a sweet man, concerned for others, in spite of hearing horrific evidence himself.

Justice David Gates.

Once jury is sequestered for deliberations the media can write about the evidence not allowed in court. Will be interesting for sure!

 

[otto]

I have the opinion that the jury needs to be addressed publicly as was the case in this trial. The thoughts of social workers in the jury room is very disturbing in that we don't know if anything the social worker says can influence the jury.

It will be interesting to see if the judge's address to the jury is challenged by the accused. I certainly hope not. jmo.

Is the counselling provided by social workers, or psychologists?

 

[MistyWaters]

I just wanted to add that every province in Canada appears to have had a dedicated Juror mental health program in place for quite some time. Perhaps the judge was reading the informational packet to the jury?

From Oct,2014

"All Albertans who serve on juries will soon get free access to mental-health services.

The government is in negotiations with a counselling provider and is set to roll out the initiative in the coming months.

The program is part of the Juror Recommendations Project — the result of a 300 page report from 2009 that aims to address the comfort of people who serve on juries.

Mental health of those citizens is a key aspect of that goal and starting soon, every prospective juror will be given a package at the outset of a trial with information about how to access the services."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...to-be-offered-mental-health-support-1.2805701

 

[PrincessButtercup]

I just wanted to add that every province in Canada appears to have had a dedicated Juror mental health program in place for quite some time. Perhaps the judge was reading the informational packet to the jury?

From Oct,2014

"All Albertans who serve on juries will soon get free access to mental-health services.

The government is in negotiations with a counselling provider and is set to roll out the initiative in the coming months.

The program is part of the Juror Recommendations Project — the result of a 300 page report from 2009 that aims to address the comfort of people who serve on juries.

Mental health of those citizens is a key aspect of that goal and starting soon, every prospective juror will be given a package at the outset of a trial with information about how to access the services."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...to-be-offered-mental-health-support-1.2805701

I wonder if they're just expected to go right back to work. I know my employer will continue to pay my salary if I'm compelled to sit on a jury but I wonder what the court indicates as the time served on the jury.

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[katiesmomma48]

I wonder if they're just expected to go right back to work. I know my employer will continue to pay my salary if I'm compelled to sit on a jury but I wonder what the court indicates as the time served on the jury.

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From the point of view of being a juror myself once and at the young age of 20. I wish we had one. I needed one when it was over. Just my opinion.


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[Power of Two]

Another piece from Christie Blatchford regarding yesterday's events in the Court.
The Judge is obviously a very decent human being.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...r-trial-follow-description-of-garlands-arrest

 

[dogmatica]

Re: why he plead not guilty...I think he wanted to see what the Crown/CPS had on him and how they built the case against him. I think his ego was hurt and also he was curious - and wanted to see himself be the subject of such publicity and spectacle. Bit of an ego trip. He also got to inflict more pain on the loved ones of his sworn enemy - just more twisted satisfaction. And finally, it got him out of his cell 5 days a week for a month. I'm surprised anyone would be surprised that he'd plead not guilty. Pleading guilty would indicate some kind of remorse, culpability. He doesn't have either of those things.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Re: why he plead not guilty...I think he wanted to see what the Crown/CPS had on him and how they built the case against him. I think his ego was hurt and also he was curious - and wanted to see himself be the subject of such publicity and spectacle. Bit of an ego trip. He also got to inflict more pain on the loved ones of his sworn enemy - just more twisted satisfaction. And finally, it got him out of his cell 5 days a week for a month. I'm surprised anyone would be surprised that he'd plead not guilty. Pleading guilty would indicate some kind of remorse, culpability. He doesn't have either of those things.

This is such a good post.

:goodpost:

 

[Satchie]

Also, I think there might be a reluctance to admit guilt to his parents. They were very good to him, giving him a nice home and freedom from having to work, and he snuck behind their backs and did this on their farm. How are they going to continue living there with the knowledge of what happened, what their son did to these innocent people, to a five year old boy?

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[lynck]

https://t.co/hwc3GO5YYJ

Is it just me, or does the dolly in this picture appear to be modified?

And if that's a farm dolly, where's the strap for it? Hmm....

 

[lecomte]

Re: why he plead not guilty...I think he wanted to see what the Crown/CPS had on him and how they built the case against him. I think his ego was hurt and also he was curious - and wanted to see himself be the subject of such publicity and spectacle. Bit of an ego trip. He also got to inflict more pain on the loved ones of his sworn enemy - just more twisted satisfaction. And finally, it got him out of his cell 5 days a week for a month. I'm surprised anyone would be surprised that he'd plead not guilty. Pleading guilty would indicate some kind of remorse, culpability. He doesn't have either of those things.

My thoughts on it are that he, and anyone else really, has nothing to lose by pleading not guilty, so why not. If you plead guilty that's the end of the story, but if you plead not guilty then there's always a chance things will go a different way.

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[wswallace1]

Thanks for that. It appears in the part I read that they are discussing a trial debriefing session program in Manitoba with the jury behind closed doors with social workers. And that the judge would authorize this program. I didn't see anything where the judge is supposed to be giving them mental health advice, from the bench, during the course of the trial. But I do know that all provinces have been reviewing the impact of PTSD on jurors and perhaps they have made this recommendation in Alberta?

It's kind of hard to explain why it seems odd that a judge who is supposed to be completely impartial and unbiased about what is legally permitted to be discussed and shown in his courtroom, while he/she is presiding over a case, is admitting to the jury that the evidence against the accused is horrific and trauma inducing, therefore influencing the jury regarding the evidence. Does that make sense?

:waitasec:

MOO

There have been many studies demonstrating that juries who are presented with shocking/graphic/gruesome visuals of a violent crime are more likely to convict a defendant than are juries who just hear the crime described without photos. They think that's because the added emotions of actually seeing the severity of the crime encourages the jury to exact retribution on behalf of the victim and family.

Justice Gates is encouraging this jury to seek mental health assistance in order to ratchet down their emotions and distress, considering all that they have seen at trial. Theoretically I think that helps Garland because if the jurors do get that mental health assistance, they will be better able to review the evidence calmly and rationally and not convict him purely out of extreme emotion. (I say "theoretically" helps him because of course he should and will be found guilty either way). IMO

 

[dogmatica]

This is such a good post.

:goodpost:

Oh, thank you!

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Oh, thank you!

unclenched yet? omg lol

 

[dyannaON]

It must be such a hard weekend for everyone. The jury, the families. I can't imagine what everyone's feelings are like. Really wish I could just hug everyone involved but for T5. I do feel for his parents. So elderly to live your last years knowing what your "son" did. Everyone must have such heavy hearts right now. The waiting!!


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[dogmatica]

unclenched yet? omg lol

Lol. Yes full release. Oh god, that sounded bad.

 

[MistyWaters]

Another piece from Christie Blatchford regarding yesterday's events in the Court.
The Judge is obviously a very decent human being.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...r-trial-follow-description-of-garlands-arrest

Thanks for posting the link! Oddly, Christie Blatchford also labels Garland with that 1000-yard stare.

"He was, she said, calm and collected. He had what she called “the 1,000-yard stare.”

He’s had it throughout the trial, that same startling lack of expression."

I'll admit I've not heard the term before. I apologize if anyone has already posted the background on the word because then I missed it. From google:

"The term “thousand-yard-stare” is believed to have originated in World War I, and was coined for the faces of battle-weary soldiers. It was popularized in World War II and named for the perception that such stares really do seem to be able to see very far ahead. Eyes cross a little when focusing on something reasonably close, but eyes not looking at anything will behave like eyes looking at something very far away. It is described as a unfocused, dazed look seen in a person who has suffered severe acute psychological distress and is coping with that stress through dissociation from the event and the “players”."
http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/american-marine-thousand-yard-stare-1944/

Hmmm, I recall it mentioned in studies that psychopaths, no conscience, no empathy or feelings for others, therefore they mimic facial expression in order to appear normal.

If Garland was tired of playing the game, that also might be a reason for the 1000-yard stare?

Shellshock certainly wouldn't be the cause.

Other thoughts?



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[MistyWaters]

https://t.co/hwc3GO5YYJ

Is it just me, or does the dolly in this picture appear to be modified?

And if that's a farm dolly, where's the strap for it? Hmm....

It's hard to say if it's been modified or if it's just old. Some of the things that can be bought at rural auction sales qualify for one-of-a-kind junk.

Are you thinking it could be used to move a human, more or less upside-down, so that he/she would be tied in a sitting position, back supported by the flat bottom part, legs upward, tied down? Because it certainly would appears it could be used for that purpose.


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