Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #26

[lynck]

I was curious where he was arrested by LE so I looked it up and marked it so others can see



compared with video grab

 

[Kamille]

I also want to post that we'll likely see more things you may deem to be suspect from the judge as he gives the jury instructions. Based on the attached images our judicial system allows our judges a lot more leeway than other countries when in comes to addressing the jury.

Man I'm getting sick of finding links. I can't wait until I can just tell you all freely exactly what happened when jury is out and help your understanding and worries. The behind the scenes court process is really neat and eye opening. Takes away a lot of questions that I too would have if I wasn't seeing how it all goes down and why. Sitting in court wasn't just about the case for me it was about seeing the processes too.

View attachment 109652View attachment 109653

All jury instructions are usually done with the assistance of both Crown and Defence counsel to ensure that nothing is either said or omitted that either side would have issue with.

That said, there are many appeals launched based on judge errors for things that they either did or didn't do. No one is infallible.

Looking forward to hearing your take of the behind the scenes commentary. Just make sure that none of it is still covered by a publication ban before sharing.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

From the point of view of being a juror myself once and at the young age of 20. I wish we had one. I needed one when it was over. Just my opinion.


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Thank you for your service. I hope you were able to get some help and deal with your experience?

 

[Kamille]

https://t.co/hwc3GO5YYJ

Is it just me, or does the dolly in this picture appear to be modified?

And if that's a farm dolly, where's the strap for it? Hmm....

It does look modified for carrying large barrels IMO

 

[mrazda71]

Also, I think there might be a reluctance to admit guilt to his parents. They were very good to him, giving him a nice home and freedom from having to work, and he snuck behind their backs and did this on their farm. How are they going to continue living there with the knowledge of what happened, what their son did to these innocent people, to a five year old boy?

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Think the farm has been sold now. I believe the 3rd Garland sibling helped them clear out the farm and move on.

 

[MistyWaters]

Not that I believe drugs directly played a role, It's possible Garland had connections to organized crime at the time of his meth cooking and even in BC, stealing a semi trailer.

The Garland acreage was on Range Road 291 -
Typical country like, snip from 2014
"Everyone on Range Road 291 knows each other and helps each other. "
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/ne.../?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&page=all

It's possible there was no connection to this 2016 drug bust on range road 291, but it's sort of an odd coincidence. The two places must be very close to each other, both described as east of Airdrie.
"According to a release issued April 13 by CPS, the raid netted a quantity of stolen property, including vehicles, motorcycles, dirt bikes and license plates. Police also seized a number of weapons and drugs. Investigators believe the property was being used a storage facility for stolen property."
http://www.airdriecityview.com/article/Police-raid-home-east-of-Airdrie-20160414



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[katiesmomma48]

Thank you for your service. I hope you were able to get some help and deal with your experience?

I'm still looking for answers. It was very hard especially when 2 children were murdered. The state trooper was convicted twice and overturned 3 times and then found not guilty the last time. It's a struggle knowing he's on the streets.


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[Female]

Not that I believe drugs directly played a role, It's possible Garland had connections to organized crime at the time of his meth cooking and even in BC, stealing a semi trailer.

The Garland acreage was on Range Road 291 -
Typical country like, snip from 2014
"Everyone on Range Road 291 knows each other and helps each other. "
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/ne.../?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&page=all

It's possible there was no connection to this 2016 drug bust on range road 291, but it's sort of an odd coincidence. The two places must be very close to each other, both described as east of Airdrie.
"According to a release issued April 13 by CPS, the raid netted a quantity of stolen property, including vehicles, motorcycles, dirt bikes and license plates. Police also seized a number of weapons and drugs. Investigators believe the property was being used a storage facility for stolen property."
http://www.airdriecityview.com/article/Police-raid-home-east-of-Airdrie-20160414



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Those 2 properties are not close. Yes both east ish of airdrie but one is north and one is south.

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[MistyWaters]

Those 2 properties are not close. Yes both east ish of airdrie but one is north and one is south.

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Thanks, any idea how far apart? Yankee Rd isn't very far south and I may be wrong but I thought Garland's were east from the north side?


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[Female]

Thanks, any idea how far apart? Yankee Rd isn't very far south and I may be wrong but I thought Garland's were east from the north side?


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6.6 kms as per my mapping system measuring tool lol

So I guess it depends on your definition of close. I'm thinking not close as neighborly since that's a bit far for that yet is only a short drive.

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[MistyWaters]

I'm still looking for answers. It was very hard especially when 2 children were murdered. The state trooper was convicted twice and overturned 3 times and then found not guilty the last time. It's a struggle knowing he's on the streets.


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Oh gosh, that would make it all the harder to deal with. So sorry for you, serving on jury duty is certainly patriotic but that shouldn't make it a life sentence. Were you able to keep in touch with any other jurors?


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[katiesmomma48]

Oh gosh, that would make it all the harder to deal with. So sorry for you, serving on jury duty is certainly patriotic but that shouldn't make it a life sentence. Were you able to keep in touch with any other jurors?


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Yes I have stayed in touch with 3. They become kind of like your second family. When you're crying and don't know what to do or feel like giving up because of the stress they are there to walk you through it and hold your hand. You're not allowed to discuss it with anyone but those 11 other jurors so they are more like you're backbone and the person you lean on because during the whole trial that's all you have. I really have gotten over a lot and I think it has to do with me blocking a lot of it out but I still have nightmares about those sweet innocent babies and the knowing that one of their killers is walking free today. Thank you so much for your kind words


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[ILoveDateline]

Once jury is sequestered for deliberations the media can write about the evidence not allowed in court. Will be interesting for sure!

Q to fellow sluethers: is there a part/topic you believe was covered in these "what the jury did not hear" times that you are particularly interested in? Where, maybe, it was touched on, then legal agreements and, either nothing more, or a total turn around happened? TIA. What are you dying to hear about?

I asked because I made the mistake of only following the cbc live blog for the first half of the trial, coming over to the twitter feed reposted here on WS for the past week. I didn't notice many times when the jury was absent. It could be that those occurrences weren't reported on the cbc blog as often as they happened (and there were often days when the primary reporter couldn't attend part of the trial and said to follow someone else on twitter. I don't do twitter.). Also, in contrast to the Bosma trial where the jury was out of court multiple times a day and/or days a week for legal arguments and media coverage was excellent. It just seemed like there was so much the jury did not hear in that case.

While the thought of catching up on the twitter feed from the start of the trial sounds like an awesome way to spend my weekend, I'll never have time for that. I'll be sure never to make that mistake again.

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[Spellbound]

I'm still looking for answers. It was very hard especially when 2 children were murdered. The state trooper was convicted twice and overturned 3 times and then found not guilty the last time. It's a struggle knowing he's on the streets.


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I believe we have a thread for that case. :-(

So very sorry you went through such a traumtic case as a juror.

 

[katiesmomma48]

I believe we have a thread for that case. :-(

So very sorry you went through such a traumtic case as a juror.

That's what I was wondering. I was trying to find it with no luck. It was David Camm and Charles Bonet. Would you know where to look?


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[Hatfield]

I just wanted to add that every province in Canada appears to have had a dedicated Juror mental health program in place for quite some time. Perhaps the judge was reading the informational packet to the jury?

From Oct,2014

"All Albertans who serve on juries will soon get free access to mental-health services.

The government is in negotiations with a counselling provider and is set to roll out the initiative in the coming months.

The program is part of the Juror Recommendations Project — the result of a 300 page report from 2009 that aims to address the comfort of people who serve on juries.

Mental health of those citizens is a key aspect of that goal and starting soon, every prospective juror will be given a package at the outset of a trial with information about how to access the services."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...to-be-offered-mental-health-support-1.2805701

Been thinking about this and I like that the services is offered but I think it should be offered only after the trial is over because of the potential to influence a juror.

I know some jurors could use it during the trial but it just seems unfair to the defendants in certain cases.

 

[Hatfield]

Someone on another case had brought up the idea of having professional jurors as a whole new career and job opportunity. I think that is a real good idea for many reasons.

Professional jurors would get better and better over time and I believe they would create more accurate verdicts. They would get used to how attorneys tactics are used to fool a jury and they would know the signs when they are trying to be tricked into thinking a certain way by the attorneys.

Prof. jurors would get used to the goriness of some cases and it wouldn't hit them as much which would help reduce the possibility of emotions influencing a verdict. They would be able to handle cases more professionally without emotions affecting their decisions.

Prof jurors could be established for each state and a rotation method could be established to make sure different people are involved with different cases. To help get a fair jury pool.

Prof jurors would reduce the possibility of jurors rushing their decisions for personal reasons. It is their job so they would be less likely to rush their decisions just because they want to go home.

Many other reasons I feel professional jurors would be a better way to do things and I do believe it would create more fairer verdicts.
It could be rolled out slowly and wouldnt have to be done all at once.

 

[Matzoh]

Just a couple of questions and a comment...

1. I keep thinking about DG's research...especially him researching something about the amount of force required to cause brain damage. I find it curious he was looking up that in particular, rather than the amount of force required to kill. Is there any possibility that could indicate he intended to NOT kill the victims at the house (but rather at the farm)? That he was looking up the amount of force that would injure but keep them alive? (Of course, that doesn't mean the whole thing unrolled that way during the actual crime. I'm just curious about his intent.)

2. Does anyone remember during which witnesses' testimonies the discussion in the court occurred excluding evidence or questioning (which wasn't in front of the jury, and can't be reported until after the trial)? Was it during the computer investigator? I'm just wondering if that revolved around Garland's freaky online activities (maybe chat rooms, photos, etc.) that wasn't allowed in the court because it wasn't directly relevant and would have prejudiced the jury...?

As for a comment, I just wanted to suggest that perhaps we should remove the pictures and background information on the female police officer involved in Garland's takedown from this forum. I know people were just trying to compliment her, but I know many police officers try to minimize any kind of public online presence, understandably, for their own safety. My $0.02!

 

[Spellbound]

That's what I was wondering. I was trying to find it with no luck. It was David Camm and Charles Bonet. Would you know where to look?


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This is the one I found. I havenot found an earlier discussion yet:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Georgetown-28-Sept-2000&highlight=David+Camm,

 

[Hatfield]

Just a couple of questions and a comment...

1. I keep thinking about DG's research...especially him researching something about the amount of force required to cause brain damage. I find it curious he was looking up that in particular, rather than the amount of force required to kill. Is there any possibility that could indicate he intended to NOT kill the victims at the house (but rather at the farm)? That he was looking up the amount of force that would injure but keep them alive? (Of course, that doesn't mean the whole thing unrolled that way during the actual crime. I'm just curious about his intent.)

2. Does anyone remember during which witnesses' testimonies the discussion in the court occurred excluding evidence or questioning (which wasn't in front of the jury, and can't be reported until after the trial)? Was it during the computer investigator? I'm just wondering if that revolved around Garland's freaky online activities (maybe chat rooms, photos, etc.) that wasn't allowed in the court because it wasn't directly relevant and would have prejudiced the jury...?

As for a comment, I just wanted to suggest that perhaps we should remove the pictures and background information on the female police officer involved in Garland's takedown from this forum. I know people were just trying to compliment her, but I know many police officers try to minimize any kind of public online presence, understandably, for their own safety. My $0.02!

I can help answer this one

"Is there any possibility that could indicate he intended to NOT kill the victims at the house (but rather at the farm)?"

IMO
We did discuss that and yes that may have been his intent but whether he ended up beating them too much where they did or didnt survive is one of the topics of a lot of discussion.

A couple of the things he did seems to point that it could have been his original intent. The research he did online and also the blackjack or billyclub he bought was the type that could have done a knock out type of injury. Because if his only intent was to kill then why even buy a billy club. Why not just stick with knives and guns.
The handcuffs he had bought also tend to point to him thinking of capturing them and restraining them.

The thing is though is I dont know that we know what he actually ended up bringing with him at the house.