Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #26

[marmot4]

why would you say that? Confused me, sorry. He can see this doctor for many reasons, even if that was the specialty of the practice.

Well, it's confirmed that DG has ADD/ADHD and that he was seeing a psychiatrist-specialist ADD/ADHD so I think that it's very likely it was because ADHD.
During his trial it was mentioned he was looking for info about ADHD.

The judge in that case, which saw the government try to deny him benefits because he used a false identity and social insurance number, described him as intelligent but suffering from attention-deficit disorder and prone to breakdowns. from: http://o.canada.com/news/national/b...w-and-mental-health-concerns-documents-reveal

 

[deugirtni]

Several threads back I suggested that he may have a form of autism and further suggested Asperger's. I know 3 people with Asperger's that function at various levels.

I too think this could be the case with DG.

I think there are an awful lot of people walking around with Asperger's that aren't criminals.... and also thinking back to the time when he was working as a productive employee at a couple of places in BC I believe.. (until he had a breakdown??).. I can't remember now how many years he was working at the one place, wasn't it a few? Would a person so severely struggling with social skills be able to hold down a job like that for that long? Just curious, not being facetious.

 

[Spellbound]

Who said he was on anti-psychotics, besides speculation of one person on our forum? Another member posted information suggesting that DG's psychiatrist was a specialist in adult ADD/ADHD, and we already know as fact from the past that DG indeed had that condition. If we put two and two together, we'd come to the conclusion that he was being seen for that diagnosis by a specialist in that area. I wonder though, if his drivers license was in his own name, or in the other guy's name. moo.

I don't have a clue what type medication he was on, and that was what my post responded to. I am in agreement with your points made.

As for having a current drivers license, I don't know. I suspect not, but do not know this to be true. According to court documents from his previous case whuch involved the use of another's identity, he was treated for ADD at that time and :
In May 1993 he applied for a SIN under this assumed name. He had his own SIN in his own name since 1980. He also applied for a driver's license under the name Matthew Hartley. Indeed, Mr. Garland conducted all his activities in Vancouver under the name Matthew Hartley.
http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/tcc/doc/2005/2005tcc176/2005tcc176.html

 

[deugirtni]

We don't know that Garland had ADHD. Psychiatrists can have areas of specialization, and still see patients who have a different disorder.

I believe we know from the past that DG had ADD/ADHD. His excuse in court, IIRC, was that he was manufacturing meth to treat his own ADD/ADHD.

 

[Spellbound]

I think there are an awful lot of people walking around with Asperger's that aren't criminals.... and also thinking back to the time when he was working as a productive employee at a couple of places in BC I believe.. (until he had a breakdown??).. I can't remember now how many years he was working at the one place, wasn't it a few? Would a person so severely struggling with social skills be able to hold down a job like that for that long? Just curious, not being facetious.

I believe the employment you are talking about was for FOUR YEARS. (See the court doc I posted above). http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/tcc/doc/2005/2005tcc176/2005tcc176.html )
Pretty decent job performance, it seems.

 

[deugirtni]

Someone posted that autopsy instagram link... and it reminded me that I had meant to post the link below.. because a 'retractor' was one of the items searched on DG's computer, I believe. Pretty gruesome to wonder what he must have been thinking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retractor_(medical)

 

[PrincessButtercup]

I believe we know from the past that DG had ADD/ADHD. His excuse in court, IIRC, was that he was manufacturing meth to treat his own ADD/ADHD.

As someone with ADHD, I can't even fathom treating it with Meth ... holy cow, lol.

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[Slebby]

You don't take anti-psychotic drugs for ADHD. ADHD alsi doesn't make you psychotic or prone to violence.

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Exactly. You also don't have to go to a psychiatrist for ADHD drugs. A GP can prescribe them.


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[ILoveDateline]

There was an evidentiary hearing prior to the trial. Are you saying that evidence was not posted on twitter, or that it was not presented in court?

I guess I'm talking about evidence that didn't make it to court. Obviously, this is covered by the pub ban right now, but "what the jury did not hear stories" always emerge when the jury is sequestered. Not all of that content happens in pretrial, some happens during trial when the jury isn't in the room. I just didn't notice twitter saying "were in legal arguments. Can't report on anything while the jury is out." as much as I expected. But maybe I missed this by following via the cbc blog. I'm wondering if anyone felt something was left out, that is of particular interest.

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[Tealgrove]

I think there are an awful lot of people walking around with Asperger's that aren't criminals.... and also thinking back to the time when he was working as a productive employee at a couple of places in BC I believe.. (until he had a breakdown??).. I can't remember now how many years he was working at the one place, wasn't it a few? Would a person so severely struggling with social skills be able to hold down a job like that for that long? Just curious, not being facetious.

My friend has two sons that have both been diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome.

Her oldest son who is now 23 has had a job for several years and is incredibly intelligent. His supervisor has tried several times to broaden his responsibilities and give him "better" stuff to do. Each time that has happened he has had a breakdown. He is totally unable to cope. Totally. As a younger child he was all about 'testing boundaries" and wanting to get a reaction. He lit a fire in the garage of his family home. When asked why he did it, he responded that he wanted to see what would happen. What would everyone's reaction be? Almost like research. He did that kind of stuff all the time.

The younger son is a whole other deal. In fact, he is creepy and his own mother has concerns about his actions. Without getting into detail, a group of us have actually had the conversation that one day we will read about ****** and he will be a serial killer. We've actually said that.

A friend of my nephew has Asperger's and is in medical school. She is very detached, very organized, no bedside manner, but brilliant. Top of her class. Heap it on her and she's all good.

So there you go.

Autism and the entire spectrum is still in it's infancy. Everybody seems different. You can't really categorize and say this is how everyone will behave or react who has been diagnosed.

 

[marmot4]

There is more, not only meth is med to treat ADHD/ADD but using meth can cause psychiatric issues.

[h=1]Neuropsychiatric Adverse Effects of Amphetamine and Methamphetamine.
[/h][h=3][/h][h=3]Abstract
[/h]Administration of amphetamine and methamphetamine can elicit psychiatric adverse effects at acute administration, binge use, withdrawal, and chronic use. Most troublesome of these are psychotic states and aggressive behavior, but a large variety of undesirable changes in cognition and affect can be induced. Adverse effects occur more frequently with higher dosages and long-term use. They can subside over time but some persist long-term. Multiple alterations in the gray and white matter of the brain assessed as changes in tissue volume or metabolism, or at molecular level, have been associated with amphetamine and methamphetamine use and the psychiatric adverse effects, but further studies are required to clarify their causal role, specificity, and relationship with preceding states and traits and comorbidities. The latter include other substance use disorders, mood and anxiety disorders, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, and antisocial personality disorder. Amphetamine- and methamphetamine-related psychosis is similar to schizophrenia in terms of symptomatology and pathogenesis, and these two disorders share predisposing genetic factors.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26070758

 

[marmot4]

As I follow this case from the beginning, when the trial was about to start I was like: what kind of excuse DG parents will give for not seeing or hearing anything at the time of these terrible events. Apparently his mother used to take the sleeping pills and coincidently enough his father had a toothache the day of the murders. Wow, happy man, he is 86 and still has his own tooth/teeth! Maybe it's true but what if it's not? There is no proof his mother took a sleep pill that night, as for his father it was said, if I recall that right, his dentist could not help him out so he went to emergency and was given prescription for antibiotics and advised to take Tylenol-3 which is quite standard routine but for many this does not work. I'm sure the police checked that but how it can be proven you have a toothache if you do not have a fever or/and other typical symptoms? What if a toothache was a part of the plan? It was said that DG took care of his father that evening/night so it might be a good alibi. It was said he was taking shower at 7:15 AM of June 30th so how could he be somewhere at a highway at the same time? Again, can be a part of DG alibi. Now, didn't they really hear nothing/see nothing or they are protecting their son?

 

[kittymeow]

We know that his medical records were not part of the trial evidence.

What I said is that psychiatrists have to get into people's heads in order to prescribe antipsychotic drugs. I should have added that they do not necessarily prescribe anti-psychotics to all patients, but they still have to get inside the patient's head to determine whether it is required.

You clearly know very little about this topic, and you should stop commenting on it. Psychiatrists are not mind readers and are not responsible for not treating something a patient hides/doesn't present. End of story.

She does not. Why should anyone profit from this horrific crime? The young woman
was doing her job. What about the millions of take downs we don't hear about?

I'm glad you said this lol. No doubt it wasn't brave, but it was her job. It could easily have been someone else and honestly I think she's only getting this level of praise because she is a young woman. I feel like if a man did it no one would be phased and saying "omg what a strong brave hero" the way people are with this woman. Actually, wasn't her partner there (a man) in the arrest video too, also running through the fields? The video and testimony seems to show they had equal involvement in tracking DG down and arresting him in the field. So yes although people mean well by praising this girl, it's sexist. I will just say both her and her partner and all the other LE involved that evening did a great job working together and making the arrest.

I don't have a clue what type medication he was on, and that was what my post responded to. I am in agreement with your points made.

As for having a current drivers license, I don't know. I suspect not, but do not know this to be true. According to court documents from his previous case whuch involved the use of another's identity, he was treated for ADD at that time and :
In May 1993 he applied for a SIN under this assumed name. He had his own SIN in his own name since 1980. He also applied for a driver's license under the name Matthew Hartley. Indeed, Mr. Garland conducted all his activities in Vancouver under the name Matthew Hartley.
http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/tcc/doc/2005/2005tcc176/2005tcc176.html

I see no reason to think he didn't have a valid driver's license. The fact that he drove that truck was a huge part of the trial. Family members and LE mentioned that the truck was registered to DG's dad but DG drove it. No mention of him not having a drivers license. You'd think someone would have said "he doesn't even have a valid license!" I could see his sister saying that if it were the case. Not sure why this is being speculated.

As someone with ADHD, I can't even fathom treating it with Meth ... holy cow, lol.

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Meth is an amphetamine, just like all the drugs that treat ADHD. Meth is actually a legitimate treatment for ADHD, but it's not common and less addictive options are tried first. But really, it's not that different from adderall, Dexedrine, vyvanse etc.

 

[ILoveDateline]

As I follow this case from the beginning, when the trial was about to start I was like: what kind of excuse DG parents will give for not seeing or hearing anything at the time of these terrible events. Apparently his mother used to take the sleeping pills and coincidently enough his father had a toothache the day of the murders. Wow, happy man, he is 86 and still has his own tooth/teeth! Maybe it's true but what if it's not? There is not proof his mother took a sleep pill that night, as for his father it was said, if I recall that right, his dentist could not help him out so he went to emergency and was given prescription for antibiotics and advised to take Tylenol-3 which is quite standard routine but for many this does not work. I'm sure the police checked that but how it can be proven you have a toothache if you do not have a fever or/and other typical symptoms? What if a toothache was a part of the plan? It was said that DG took care of his father that evening/night so it might be a good alibi. It was said he was taking shower at 7:15 AM of June 30th so how could he be somewhere at a highway at the same time? Again, can be a part of DG alibi. Now, didn't they really hear nothing/see nothing or they are protecting their son?

I'm searching for a better phrase than, I sleep like the dead. The house across the street once caught on fire and I didn't notice firetrucks (I'm talking a subdivision not rural streets) or banging on the door.
I'm sure they didn't know. JMO.

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[musicaljoke]

Exactly. You also don't have to go to a psychiatrist for ADHD drugs. A GP can prescribe them.


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He might have ADHD, but I think that he has something far more serious, like perhaps a sadistic personality disorder. jmo

 

[kdgdid]

His parole conditions were over in 2003. Seeing a psychiatrist after that would of been voluntary

It was court ordered that he see a psychiatrist as part of his release conditions. Garland spent four years obsessing about revenge, so no one kept him balanced during that time.

 

[otto]

I believe we know from the past that DG had ADD/ADHD. His excuse in court, IIRC, was that he was manufacturing meth to treat his own ADD/ADHD.

He also was busy stealing identities when he allegedly had a breakdown in his first semester at university. I don't believe he had a breakdown, and doubt that he has ADHD. I do believe that he uses mental disorders as an excuse for his actions.

 

[otto]

You clearly know very little about this topic, and you should stop commenting on it. Psychiatrists are not mind readers and are not responsible for not treating something a patient hides/doesn't present. End of story.

True. I have never had any reason to have any contact with a psychiatrist, but I do know that the psychiatrist treats neurologically related mental illness. On that basis, I believe that the psychiatrist must understand the state of mind of the client. This does not mean that I believe psychiatrists are "mind readers" (as suggested in your comment), but I do believe they are skilled in understanding state of mind - including whether a client is off the deep end obsessed with revenge for a period of four years.

 

[deugirtni]

Exactly. You also don't have to go to a psychiatrist for ADHD drugs. A GP can prescribe them.

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I'm going to throw this out there.. I'm not sure how long it has been recognized that ADD/ADHD is not only a condition of childhood, but can affect people into adulthood. (Wow, is this site incredibly slow tonight or is my new computer taking a cr@p already?) Secondly, I think that GPs are not always up to date on these conditions and may not always feel comfortable in prescribing meds which they really have not much experience with. In my experience, meds for ADHD kids are preferred to be prescribed by pediatricians.. and then when a child becomes 18, they leave the ped's care and go on to get care from someone else. I could see him going regularly for meds, because in Ontario, not sure if same in Alberta, docs don't like to prescribe meds too far in advance any more, and they like to see their patients in person in order to prescribe more. May not have to be weekly, for sure... but wondering if that could also be something related to DG potentially being on some kind of disability income via the government.. not sure what their requirements are for continuation, etc.? Also, too bad we don't know more, but it could be that he was attending weekly group therapy sessions or something, and not necessarily a one-on-one one-hour appointment with the actual psychiatrist each week? He may have also had multiple diagnoses, which may have made it more difficult to get his meds down right?

 

[deugirtni]

My friend has two sons that have both been diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome.

Her oldest son who is now 23 has had a job for several years and is incredibly intelligent. His supervisor has tried several times to broaden his responsibilities and give him "better" stuff to do. Each time that has happened he has had a breakdown. He is totally unable to cope. Totally. As a younger child he was all about 'testing boundaries" and wanting to get a reaction. He lit a fire in the garage of his family home. When asked why he did it, he responded that he wanted to see what would happen. What would everyone's reaction be? Almost like research. He did that kind of stuff all the time.

The younger son is a whole other deal. In fact, he is creepy and his own mother has concerns about his actions. Without getting into detail, a group of us have actually had the conversation that one day we will read about ****** and he will be a serial killer. We've actually said that.

A friend of my nephew has Asperger's and is in medical school. She is very detached, very organized, no bedside manner, but brilliant. Top of her class. Heap it on her and she's all good.

So there you go.

Autism and the entire spectrum is still in it's infancy. Everybody seems different. You can't really categorize and say this is how everyone will behave or react who has been diagnosed.

Yes, agreed. Just saying that DG's actions, even if he has Aspergers, may not have anything to do with that diagnosis.