Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #4

[kittymeow]

Candlelight Vigil Planned For Missing Calgary Boy And Grandparents

http://www.ivillage.ca/parenting/nathan-obrien-missing-calgary-boy-grandparents

"And, now, friends of the O’Brien and Liknes families have organized a candlelight vigil for Thursday at 8:30 p.m. so that there’s something positive ahead.

If you’re in the Calgary area, it will take place at Parkhill Community Hall."

 

[Deleted member 117120]

post removed by member

 

[HulaMum]

It seems to me that if Douglas Garland owed Alvin Liknes money, Alvin would have been on Doug's doorstep on the eve of his having an estate sale and leaving the country. Instead, it was most likely Douglas on Alvin's doorstep. We know that on the night of the murder a well preserved early 1990s green Ford T150 with a familial connection was circiling the block. Police seem very determined to find a connection now that all roads lead to the Garland properties. If it is true that there was a business connection, per some reports, then the connections are from the scene of the murder, to the Garland properties, to familial relationships, and then to financial investment relationships? I am sure that this was not a random act, and I think people in Calgary can rest more easily again.

BBM I agree with you 100%, otto. I just wish CPS would come out and say that. The general public is not on WS. Some of my friends here in Calgary are so worked up about this; a few of them I chatted with yesterday were so relieved when I mentioned that I thought it just couldn't be random. It would just really be nice to have some reassurance from the police. There was another break-in while a homeowner slept last night and CPS posted on Facebook that they are continuing to remind the public to keep their doors and windows locked. They also mentioned how concerning it was that another break-in occurred while homeowners were actually at home. Yikes.

 

[otto]

I think its pretty clear this is a recovery operation. LE aren't in the weeds and the fields looking for a live threesome. I also think they are in a difficult position thanks to the estate sale, so hard to pick out one person or show they had no need to be at the house if fingerprints are found.

This may stay unsolved not because they don't have their man but without a smoking gun there is just no way to "place" him there for nefarious purposes. If you put the pieces together of what has been made public and the enormous resources into the search at the property, they are pretty certain DG is the perp.

I'm sure that his truck has been completely dismantled looking at the undercarriage of his truck, blood under the seat covers, hairs, and perhaps an explanation if there's a video surveillance photo of him leaving the scene with something in the back of his truck.

 

[Carli]

Been reading lots, but this is my first post here in a long time, I've been a member since the Laci Peterson days, hasn't been a case since that has caught my attention like this one.

Very good questions DaisyBlantyre....I'd like to know too. In almost every missing person/major crime case like this there is a family spokesperson, maybe it's an uncle, maybe it's someone outside the family that they've hired, but I think it's weird that there's no one in this case. Just wondering why the silence from the family? What do they know/have they been told that we don't? Also weird that we've heard so little about the missing, we know Nathan is a bright, friendly, helpful boy but what about his grandparents? The only thing I remember hearing about them is a neighbour in Calgary was kinda ticked that they were moving away....happy for them, but sad to be losing good neighbours.

Hoping against hope there's a happy outcome here.

I'd have to say, IMHO, that not every family stricken with anxiety, grief and remorse is comfortable in front of cameras. I'm only (marginally) familiar with the TB case in which instance a very tight religious ultra-conservative community with influential national and international ties, took up the cause with extensive media and internet savvy and tremendous determination, IMO. As far as the general media was concerned any investigation whatsoever into the interlinking personal relationships, business deals or financial affairs of the victim or any members of TB's family was pretty much verboten (which, if you ask me, is/was a very great shame, because there remain numerous issues of potential significance rooted there, imo, which may, or may not, ever be investigated.)

It all seems very different in this case, where the private business and personal relationships of the victims themselves and many members of their families are all fair game, chewed over for details, IMO, by anyone, anywhere, with an internet connection. Every case is different, of course, and different in every way. IMO. Time will hopefully provide accurate answers. But I definitely don't think there's anything alarming about this family or those thousands of other families of missing loved ones who do not choose to run to the cameras at every opportunity , turning their tragic circumstances into bizarre public theatre but, instead, choose to quietly trust the expertise of LE. IMO. IMHO.

 

[ztzt]

I haven't been able to read through the last few pages, so in case someone mentioned this I apologize for the repetition...

According to this report

'Matt’s Hartley’s mother, June, said the family didn’t know Douglas Garland. Reached at her nursing home, she declined to speak further about her dead son.

“No. There would be no point. No point at all,” she told the National Post.'

 

[Deleted member 117120]

I haven't been able to read through the last few pages, so in case someone mentioned this I apologize for the repetition...

According to this report
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...han-obrien-charged-with-possessing-false-id/:

'Matt’s Hartley’s mother, June, said the family didn’t know Douglas Garland. Reached at her nursing home, she declined to speak further about her dead son.

“No. There would be no point. No point at all,” she told the National Post.'

Poor lady has suffered enough. I wish media would not contact her at the nursing home and let her be.
link did not work above.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/07/man-questioned-in-disappearance-of-nathan-obrien-charged-with-possessing-false-id/

 

[danibell2014]

I hate to be morbid, and I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but since DG was a chemist who once ran a clandestine meth lab, I am wondering if he used a similar method of getting rid of bodies as a popular fictional meth-manufacturer, Walter White from Breaking Bad. Whenever they needed to dispose of a body in that show they dissolved it with hydrofluoric acid...

newbie here, I found this link on DG from 1999 . I am not having a good feeling about the outcome http://injusticebusters.org/index.htm/newstories3.htm

 

[stan laurel]

If DG is good with complex chemicals maybe (and god forbid) he has dissolved and scattered them over the property. In the Calgary Herald reporters tweet she said the K9 would sit and then a marker is placed. K9's sit when something is found. Terrible theory, forgive me.

 

[lego]

To me some things just don't add up. If it was DG and he used the green truck, surely there would be some trace of blood, hair, finger prints etc of the victims. This alone would likely be grounds for arrest even without the bodies.

If indeed it was him and we presume the worst case scenario I don't see how there could have been a violent struggle, dragging bodies, transportation to another site, dumping/securing the victims, cleaning vehicle spotless, scrubbing the driveway all in about an 8 hour period (before daylight) without being seen by anyone.

 

[Carli]

I haven't been able to read through the last few pages, so in case someone mentioned this I apologize for the repetition...

According to this report
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...han-obrien-charged-with-possessing-false-id/:

'Matt’s Hartley’s mother, June, said the family didn’t know Douglas Garland. Reached at her nursing home, she declined to speak further about her dead son.

“No. There would be no point. No point at all,” she told the National Post.'

OMG. That is absolutely horrifying, IMO. I suppose the National Post has to sell newspapers, but interviewing an elderly mum at her nursing home about the son (and daughter) she lost so tragically - words escape me. That is just flat out horrifying. IMO. IMHO. I know, with experience and certainty, that no mother ever truly recovers from the loss of a child, no matter how many years pass by. That a reporter would choose to rip open that wound just defies belief, IMO. IMHO. What possible contribution to the reporter's story was made by naming and quoting this poor woman? IMO. IMHO.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

First Post! Finally!

I'm impressed at the info gathering abilities of everyone on here. I have a couple of questions... Is it possible to get court transcripts from past criminal cases?

Does anyone have any good links that explain how money laundering businesses are run, as in bankrupt and dummy corporations?

One thing that has always struck me from day one, is why someone would want to move so far away from their 3 very young grandchildren...

 

[wendiesan]

I'm wondering if LE is trying to "locate" DG's parents. Some have posted that they're 'camping'. But I can't find any media reports saying this and they are conspicuously absent.

I have a question. I haven't been able to go through all of the last thread and the first 22 pages of this one:

If Douglas Garland is known to family and things were a lot clearer to LE at the second press conference, why didn't they know that the green truck was his and/or where he lived? Why did the truck have to be identified by the public? Why couldn't the family identify the truck/the owner/the location? I realize that it's being reported that it's his sister who has 'friended' J&R O'Briend, etc. But given the circumstances (common-law relationship to AL's son) wouldn't the family, in general, be acquainted with Douglas Garland (and by extension his identifiable truck?)

IIRC, this has neither been officially identified by CPS as DG's truck nor as "the" truck seen in the CCTV footage. If, in fact, DG was involved, he could well have used someone else's truck or borrowed someone else's truck.

My bet is that DG may have been persona non grata at family gatherings because of his history-- a reclusive mentally unstable drug cook/dealer/user/excon would not necessarily be welcome around young children. In fact, if he was reclusive, he may simply have avoided going to family gatherings. In fact, it's possible that no one in the family had seen the truck. Except possibly AL if, that is, DG had owned the truck at the time they had business dealings and had driven it to any business meetings the two men had.

If DG was using meth and became angry, he would have had no compassion, no pity, no logic in his reactions. If he was demanding money from AL, and AL couldn't just hand it to him, DG could have become violent.

Studies

... suggest that methamphetamine use heightens the risk for violence. Everyone interviewed agreed that methamphetamine has clear abuse and violence potential.

http://jod.sagepub.com/content/36/1/77.abstract

...use of the drug also alters normal function in a specific part of the limbic system that processes emotions such as anger and fear. As a result of this alteration, people using methamphetamine can easily develop paranoid, aggressive, or violent states of mind.

http://www.elementsbehavioralhealth...en-methamphetamine-use-paranoia-and-violence/

In at least 12 murders committed or tried by courts over the past two years, crystal methamphetamine was used by the killer or was otherwise a suspected factor in the crime. Police warn the widespread use of the drug is creating a new level of violence and turning unstable people into dangerous criminals.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...706989145?nk=c226c7281a0661766c2df1aeefc5bd23

It is, IMO, within the realm of possibility that DG, and/or his associates, was capable of committing acts of violence.

 

[ztzt]

DG has been described as a "genius" by various accounts. I wonder if it's just because he studied science, or if he was in anyway really outstanding. My feeling is people think all scientists are geniuses. :no:

 

[lego]

Has the theory that the grandparents faked their own murder been explored? Perhaps DG could have helped them do this being a fake identity expert and all. Perhaps they were trying to escape debt and/or other issues and wanted to start another life in Mexico or elsewhere under a new identity.

 

[Mel 1303]

First Post! Finally!

I'm impressed at the info gathering abilities of everyone on here. I have a couple of questions... Is it possible to get court transcripts from past criminal cases?

Does anyone have any good links to how money laundering businesses are run, as in bankrupt and dummy corporations?

One thing that has always struck me from day one, is why someone would want to move so far away from their 3 very young grandchildren...

Welcome!

I cant answer your first questions, sorry, but as far as moving away goes, it would seem to have been a short term plan. Go to Mexico for a few months, where they have holidayed recently, stay with the brother, then come back to Canada.

 

[kdgdid]

I understand that ROs father was in the RCMP I have not heard RO ever was he is an accountant now.
\

Quoting myself again...

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/nathan-obrien-amber-alert-douglas-garland-makes-court-163800348.html

Link above says a homicide detective and Nathan's father WERE at the hearing today...

(My own words... But the word WERE seems to mean they were referring to two difference people...)


But... I still wonder if RO is in LE... And/or if any one else in the family is in LE?

:waitasec:

JMO

 

[sunnyside]

This is my first time on here but I have been following over the past few days. This is the first time I have heard this quote from JO. "he wasn't supposed to be here"? I wonder why she left her boy there if she knew of anything there that might put him in danger?

Well, I had been hoping this was not the case since we got wind of this yesterday (via rumor). Unfortunately, I think this leads us to the worst-case scenario. Wrong place, wrong time for this innocent child. I think JO knew/had a hunch/mother's instinct about this when she said "he wasn't supposed to be there" in reference to her little boy. This was between the adults and it was about money.

 

[nursebeeme]

First Post! Finally!

I'm impressed at the info gathering abilities of everyone on here. I have a couple of questions... Is it possible to get court transcripts from past criminal cases?

Does anyone have any good links that explain how money laundering businesses are run, as in bankrupt and dummy corporations?

One thing that has always struck me from day one, is why someone would want to move so far away from their 3 very young grandchildren...

welcome to websleuths! :rocker: :star:

 

[casesensitive]

I have been trying unsuccessfully for 45 minutes, to find a reporter's tweet that was posted to the thread regarding the new fake ID charge. This particular tweet was not referenced by the poster, but if I recall, was included with other twitter accounts. It read that (paraphrasing here) DG was charged with using stolen identity while in the process of committing a crime.

Wouldn't this type of detail be included in the formal charge and be part of Monday's court documents? Maybe someone knows how to access these. It sure would be interesting to know what led up this charge.