Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #4

[nursebeeme]

This is my first time on here but I have been following over the past few days. This is the first time I have heard this quote from JO. "he wasn't supposed to be here"? I wonder why she left her boy there if she knew of anything there that might put him in danger?

welcome!!!!! :star: :rocker:

 

[Carli]

To me some things just don't add up. If it was DG and he used the green truck, surely there would be some trace of blood, hair, finger prints etc of the victims. This alone would likely be grounds for arrest even without the bodies.

If indeed it was him and we presume the worst case scenario I don't see how there could have been a violent struggle, dragging bodies, transportation to another site, dumping/securing the victims, cleaning vehicle spotless, scrubbing the driveway all in about an 8 hour period (before daylight) without being seen by anyone.

I agree. DG has a rap sheet but it doesn't seem to involve physical violence. So not to forget there's also this other chap - the guy with the gun who just got out of jail last December after serving four years for shooting his girlfriend and breaking into an elderly couple's bedroom, holding them at gunpoint. Oh yeah, the girlfriend he "accidentally" shot "twice" with his Barreta handgun was the a daughter of AL. She testified against him in court. Did DG, the business partner of AL's son and FC, the gun totin' jailbird boyfriend of AL's daughter know each other? Did they share any animosity toward the L family? Just wondering aloud. IMO. IMHO. etc.

 

[Solitaryone]

I agree. DG has a rap sheet but it doesn't seem to involve physical violence. So not to forget there's also this other chap - the guy with the gun who just got out of jail last December after serving four years for shooting his girlfriend and breaking into an elderly couple's bedroom, holding them at gunpoint. Oh yeah, the girlfriend he "accidentally" shot "twice" with his Barreta handgun was the a daughter of AL. She testified against him in court. Did DG, the business partner of AL's son and FC, the gun totin' jailbird boyfriend of AL's daughter know each other? Did they share any animosity toward the L family? Just wondering aloud. IMO. IMHO. etc.

Good questions. I too wonder if DG was involved, was anyone else involved?

 

[ztzt]

link did not work above.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/07/man-questioned-in-disappearance-of-nathan-obrien-charged-with-possessing-false-id/

I deleted that part. Just click on "this report", which is the link.

 

[Jackie87]

This is my first time on here but I have been following over the past few days. This is the first time I have heard this quote from JO. "he wasn't supposed to be here"? I wonder why she left her boy there if she knew of anything there that might put him in danger?

It's JMO, but I think she meant it in the context of whatever happened not being about her son and him just being at the wrong place at the wrong time. It's possible the family suspected what had happened from the beginning, regarding AL and his dealings/past with DG, etc.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I have been trying unsuccessfully for 45 minutes, to find a reporter's tweet that was posted to the thread regarding the new fake ID charge. This particular tweet was not referenced by the poster, but if I recall, was included with other twitter accounts. It read that (paraphrasing here) DG was charged with using stolen identity while in the process of committing a crime.

Wouldn't this type of detail be included in the formal charge and be part of Monday's court documents? Maybe someone knows how to access these. It sure would be interesting to know what led up this charge.

From what I understand, the charge may be possession related. For example, if someone has a false name on a government issued ID card on their person when apprehended, especially if it was recently issued, then you can have some similar legal issues.

 

[kittymeow]

I have been trying unsuccessfully for 45 minutes, to find a reporter's tweet that was posted to the thread regarding the new fake ID charge. This particular tweet was not referenced by the poster, but if I recall, was included with other twitter accounts. It read that (paraphrasing here) DG was charged with using stolen identity while in the process of committing a crime.

Wouldn't this type of detail be included in the formal charge and be part of Monday's court documents? Maybe someone knows how to access these. It sure would be interesting to know what led up this charge.

When did you see this posted?

 

[otto]

This is almost as crazy as the mathematician that murdered his girlfriend and his two children with an axe in his Lake Bonavista home several years ago. He's living in prison. His girlfriend was a heart surgery nurse whose absence was noticed in the morning. The children were roughly 12 and 14 years old. That was a completely crazy thing in Calgary. There's also the recent BSc graduate in Psychology that murdered five friends in April. He had been accepted to law school, and now he sits in a psychiatric ward. There was Josh Lall, the architect that went home one day, picked up a big knife, and murdered his tennant (a newspaper reporter/editor for a local post secondary school), his wife, and his two preschool daughters. He left his infant daughter allive. He was found on the floor beside the crib with self inflicted wounds. There seem to be some really out-there murders in Calgary. There is the staged murder of a couple that wasn't a carbon monoxide poisoning after all. Today, there is a missing five year old child. His grandparents may have been targetted by an extended family member with possible business ties/financial motives.

 

[ztzt]

I missed why some folks consider AL and KL separately, like one is dead, the other alive; why?

Re the grandparents faking their own deaths, I doubt they would have done it when the grandson was with them. They could always choose another day, no?

 

[HulaMum]

This is my first time on here but I have been following over the past few days. This is the first time I have heard this quote from JO. "he wasn't supposed to be here"? I wonder why she left her boy there if she knew of anything there that might put him in danger?

No, I don't think JO thought her son was in any sort of danger when she left him with his grandparents. Not at all. She felt he was safe there.

I think her words "he wasn't supposed to be there" were spoken out of regret, the way that a mother always blames herself even for things that are out of her control. It was bad timing. It could have happened any other night! Why, why, why on this night that she had left him there? It would be the same as if the one day you let your child walk to school they get hit by a car. You'd just be filled with anger and regret for the unfair timing of it. My heart breaks for JO. I hope she can someday have that burden lifted from her. She absolutely thought her son would be safe with his grandparents IMO.

 

[Eldrick]

It's JMO, but I think she meant it in the context of whatever happened not being about her son and him just being at the wrong place at the wrong time. It's possible the family suspected what had happened from the beginning, regarding AL and his dealings/past with DG, etc.

I tend to agree.
Something like the sleepover wasn't planned - just happened at the last minute. A 'please mommy' kind of thing.
And therefore 'he wasn't even supposed to be there'.

 

[otto]

From what I understand, the charge may be possession related. For example, if someone has a false name on a government issued ID card on their person when apprehended, especially if it was recently issued, then you can have some similar legal issues.

"Garland appeared via closed-circuit video on an identity theft charge and the judge granted a two-day adjournment at the request of the Crown.

Garland was taken into police custody for questioning in the ongoing investigation into the suspected abductions. Police did not lay charges in relation to the case.

Court documents reveal Garland was allegedly found to be in possession of the identification of Matthew Hartley on July 4 and was charged the next day with the intention of using it to commit an indictable offence.

Garland, whose sister is in a common-law relationship with a member of the Liknes family, is now balding and does not look like the man in earlier photos the Herald has published."

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/c...erest+disappearances+held/10008295/story.html

 

[HulaMum]

This is almost as crazy as the mathematician that murdered his girlfriend and his two children with an axe in his Lake Bonavista home several years ago. He's living in prison. His girlfriend was a heart surgery nurse whose absence was noticed in the morning. The children were roughly 12 and 14 years old. That was a completely crazy thing in Calgary. There's also the recent BSc graduate in Psychology that murdered five friends in April. He had been accepted to law school, and now he sits in a psychiatric ward. There was Josh Lall, the architect that went home one day, picked up a big knife, and murdered his tennant (a newspaper reporter/editor for a local post secondary school), his wife, and his two preschool daughters. He left his infant daughter allive. He was found on the floor beside the crib with self inflicted wounds. There seem to be some really out-there murders in Calgary. There is the staged murder of a couple that wasn't a carbon monoxide poisoning after all. Today, there is a missing five year old child. His grandparents may have been targetted by an extended family member with possible business ties/financial motives.

Whoa, otto. I'm having trouble sleeping as it is here. Holy! I'm going to pretend I didn't read that! *goes to plug in the night light.*

 

[jemini]

Try Globalcalgary or Sundavedormer

 

[otto]

I tend to agree.
Something like the sleepover wasn't planned - just happened at the last minute. A 'please mommy' kind of thing.
And therefore 'he wasn't even supposed to be there'.

I vaguely remember that the grandparents invited the child to spend the night. It was 10PM, when a child should be sleeping. Perhaps the child was already alseep and mom left him there. Perhaps he was awake, in which case there would be no reason to have a sleep over as he would simply go straight to bed ... being that he was 5 and it was 10PM. Most likely he was asleep and it seemed like a good idea to let him sleep, and pick him up in the morning when everyone was up again ... 10AM. I don't think it was planned, but I do wonder about the circumstances. For example, was the child awake and looking forward to watching a movie with grandpa, or was he already asleep in the right bed?

 

[otto]

Whoa, otto. I'm having trouble sleeping as it is here. Holy! I'm going to pretend I didn't read that!

People should be wondering about the totally off-the-wall white collar murders that seem to happen in Canada's oil hub. It looks like they're starting to pile up and define the nature of high stress, big money breakdowns.

 

[Stirner]

Poor lady has suffered enough. I wish media would not contact her at the nursing home and let her be.
link did not work above.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/07/man-questioned-in-disappearance-of-nathan-obrien-charged-with-possessing-false-id/

I wholeheartedly agree, the identity fraud is irrelevant. Ordering the birth certificate of a deceased youth is a VERY well-known way to 'disappear'. In fact an early episode of the Rockford Files spelled the entire scam out, 40 years ago. It's also mentioned in at least half the books sold by Loompanics from the 1970s-1990s... It's so popular that most dead children who would be adult age today have already had their identities stolen, which is why identity fraudsters have moved on to stealing the identities of living people in the past 10 or 15 years (the reason you steal a dead child's identity is to ensure there is no credit history associated with the identity)...

 

[kittymeow]

I have been trying unsuccessfully for 45 minutes, to find a reporter's tweet that was posted to the thread regarding the new fake ID charge. This particular tweet was not referenced by the poster, but if I recall, was included with other twitter accounts. It read that (paraphrasing here) DG was charged with using stolen identity while in the process of committing a crime.

Wouldn't this type of detail be included in the formal charge and be part of Monday's court documents? Maybe someone knows how to access these. It sure would be interesting to know what led up this charge.

I found this

@JasonVanRassel
Can confirm earlier report by @CBCMeg that #yyc #AmberAlert POI Douglas Garland has been charged with unlawful possession of ID. CONT
https://twitter.com/JasonvanRassel/status/485944586326384640

Douglas Garland allegedly was in possession of ID associated with dead boy whose identity he stole while on lam in 1990s. #AmberAlert #yyc
https://twitter.com/JasonvanRassel/status/485944824139235328

That reporter was referencing this:

@cbcmeg
CLARIFYING: "new charge in decades-old case" misleading. New charge offence date: July 4. Link to old case is same stolen ID name used #cbc
https://twitter.com/CBCMeg/status/485912940085002242


So I guess they found him at the very least with a fake ID with Hartley's name on it.

 

[Stirner]

I vaguely remember that the grandparents invited the child to spend the night. It was 10PM, when a child should be sleeping. Perhaps the child was already alseep and mom left him there. Perhaps he was awake, in which case there would be no reason to have a sleep over as he would simply go straight to bed ... being that he was 5 and it was 10PM. Most likely he was asleep and it seemed like a good idea to let him sleep, and pick him up in the morning when everyone was up again ... 10AM. I don't think it was planned, but I do wonder about the circumstances. For example, was the child awake and looking forward to watching a movie with grandpa, or was he already asleep in the right bed?

considering he was running around the estate sale all day, excitedly greeting attendees, he probably would've been exhausted by evening...

 

[kittymeow]

I vaguely remember that the grandparents invited the child to spend the night. It was 10PM, when a child should be sleeping. Perhaps the child was already alseep and mom left him there. Perhaps he was awake, in which case there would be no reason to have a sleep over as he would simply go straight to bed ... being that he was 5 and it was 10PM. Most likely he was asleep and it seemed like a good idea to let him sleep, and pick him up in the morning when everyone was up again ... 10AM. I don't think it was planned, but I do wonder about the circumstances. For example, was the child awake and looking forward to watching a movie with grandpa, or was he already asleep in the right bed?

I don't think most parents would want to leave their child asleep at someone elses house and have them wake up and realize mom is suddenly gone in the morning. Or worse, the middle of the night. It was probably more like Nathan was having so much fun at grandma & grandpa's that he didn't want to leave so mom agreed to let him stay the night.