Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #5

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I don't see that as sufficient reason to take the risk. The perpetrator(s) could have left the bodies in the house if the motive was murder without the risk of evidence transfer or the burden of having to move 3 bodies out of the house and transport them. That's cumbersome and risky.

Bodies answer who, what, how, where and when. No bodies makes it difficult to prosecute. Please read through all the threads here with all the plausible possibilities of what happened. Even the most inexperienced criminal lawyer can use any one as a defense. They could be living it up in Mexico right now for all we know... and without any evidence otherwise... who is going to be prosecuted for what?

 

[Lisap2003]

Developing.. CBC.ca

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nathan-o-brien-amber-alert-police-search-landfill-1.2701030

Searching landfill.

Any guesses as to what they sent to the lab from the landfill?

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Developing.. CBC.ca

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nathan-o-brien-amber-alert-police-search-landfill-1.2701030

Searching landfill.

If you watch the specific video titled "Missing family case enters 10th day" which is 2:44 minutes in length I noted what may have been a telling slip of the tongue by the Calgary Police Chief at the 1:20 min mark when the Police Chief speaks highly of his LE and their tenacious efforts and then says "especially if it is a homicide" but caught himself nervously and then generalized his statement as all investigations. Did anyone catch that as well? Do LE already know it is a homicide?

video in question:
http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/TV+Shows/The+National/Canada/ID/2472362366/

 

[otto]

I don't see that as sufficient reason to take the risk. The perpetrator(s) could have left the bodies in the house if the motive was murder without the risk of evidence transfer or the burden of having to move 3 bodies out of the house and transport them. That's cumbersome and risky.

I think a random murderer would leave the bodies at the scene. Someone that is known to the victims might remove the bodies. When men murder their wives, they take them as far away as possible, but that's because they're trying to place distance between themselves and the body. In this case, if the perp knew the victims, he must have had a reason for removing them from the scene. Perhaps the child was the first to walk out of the house, perhaps it was the grandfather. Apparently none of the three were able to move or make a run for it. None of them was able to reach a cell phone and ask for help.

We know they weren't abducted to avoid leaving evidence of "medical distress", because there was evidence of violence and medical distress. If there is only one perp involved, and the person of interest has been in custody since Friday, going on six nights, then we know that police are not too concerned about making sure that he can give them food and water.

 

[stan laurel]

It's possible he's that way but it seems odd for that to suddenly manifest this late in his life. Usually people capable of that have a history of setting fires, torturing animals etc. he just doesn't seem like the type.

unless it was self induced adhd via use of the drugs he was cooking up?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Was it confirmed or just a rumor?.........that neighbors near rural Airdrie property told LE that there had been something being 'burned' Sunday night on the Garland property? Some types of evidence could certainly be burned into nothing and ashes disposed somewhere, IMO.

This is rumour level. And the rumour was Wednesday.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/TV+Shows/The+National/Canada/ID/2472362366/

If you watch the specific video titled "Missing family case enters 10th day" which is 2:44 minutes in length I noted what may have been a telling slip of the tongue by the Calgary Police Chief at the 1:20 min mark when the Police Chief speaks highly of his LE and their tenacious efforts and then says "especially if it is a homicide" but caught himself nervously and then generalized his statement as all investigations. Did anyone catch that as well? Do LE already know it is a homicide?

 

[Andromeda]

Any guesses as to what they sent to the lab from the landfill?

Thanks for the link, Lisap2003, but I couldn't find reference to them sending anything to the lab from the landfill. Acreage, yes. Landfill, no. :dunno:

 

[Ms.elle]

Bodies answer who, what, how, where and when. No bodies makes it difficult to prosecute. Please read through all the threads here with all the plausible possibilities of what happened. Even the most inexperienced criminal lawyer can use any one as a defense. They could be living it up in Mexico right now for all we know... and without any evidence otherwise... who is going to be prosecuted for what?

True. BUT being seen with a body/evidence of a body being found in a suspect's vehicle is a lot more damning then evidence at a crime seen that could otherwise be explained away.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

True. BUT being seen with a body/evidence of a body being found in a suspect's vehicle is a lot more damning then evidence at a crime seen that could otherwise be explained away.

Someone willing to take the risk to murder is logically willing to take the risk of getting caught, regardless of where, especially if the reward is getting away with it. No?

 

[otto]

I'd like to build a floor plan of the house. Is anyone familiar with this floor plan (looks to be a 1960s house), and could maybe draw a sketch and share it with me. I can get the important dimensions from an aerial photo. I'll start with a rough floor plan, mapping out the stairs, the attached garage, the living/dining, kitchen, basement, front door, side door, bedrooms, back deck.

It would help to understand how three people could be completely overpowered by one person.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

True. BUT being seen with a body/evidence of a body being found in a suspect's vehicle is a lot more damning then evidence at a crime seen that could otherwise be explained away.

The Pickton case is a classic example of how a missing person just stays that way. There was nothing to tie him to that for years, especially enough to get a warrant to search his farm. Without that truck picture, does LE conduct the search of the property now, or years from now, or ever? How many other stories are there of people having an issue with AL that police would have to spend months combing through? Was AL the perpetrator himself?

That truck picture may have nothing to do with their disappearance in the end. Then what? Who do they look at? What crime, other than abduction of the child, was committed?

 

[Amster]

Where did the info come from that DG has been diagnosed ADHD?

 

[Andromeda]

I think a random murderer would leave the bodies at the scene. Someone that is known to the victims might remove the bodies. When men murder their wives, they take them as far away as possible, but that's because they're trying to place distance between themselves and the body. In this case, if the perp knew the victims, he must have had a reason for removing them from the scene. Perhaps the child was the first to walk out of the house, perhaps it was the grandfather. Apparently none of the three were able to move or make a run for it. None of them was able to reach a cell phone and ask for help.

We know they weren't abducted to avoid leaving evidence of "medical distress", because there was evidence of violence and medical distress. If there is only one perp involved, and the person of interest has been in custody since Friday, going on six nights, then we know that police are not too concerned about making sure that he can give them food and water.

LE did say after 'releasing' DG from anything to do with the Amber Alert, that they were certain there was more than one POI. So having DG in custody really doesn't serve a purpose but to keep an eye on him. At least being out and about they'd be able to monitor him.

 

[Carli]

Hey no! Just because you get out your beretta and shoot someone doesn't *prove* you were trying to *kill* the person! What IS this world coming to anyway?? The man was 61 years old.. how old was the woman (who is supposed to be AL's daughter?)?

Again, not to put too fine a point on it, but I'm willing to bet that 99.9 percent of the time when you pull out your gun and shoot someone, regardless of how old you or your target may be, you intention is to *kill* that person. Then again, I only carry kleenex, lint, keys, and the occasionally dime in my pocket. Here's what you won't find in my pocket. You won't find a fully loaded illegal 9MM Baretta with its safety catch off, so obviously my information is total speculation and MHO only. I could also add further speculation that this particular person knows a very, very, very good defense lawyer. IMO. IMHO. Sorry for the transferal thingie. Just expressing MHO. And, oh yes, the court confirmed *accident* truly did involve AL's daughter. No supposition required. IMO.

 

[craftybatchy]

The victims were last seen alive on June 28/29. The Calgary Stampede opened on July 4. There is an awful lot of people, activity, business, tourists, etc associated with the Stampede. The city is is very busy at this time of year, population increases, perhaps more crime goes along with that ?

 

[bakerlady]

Gosh. I've been posting here about this fellow for days now. I assume (but don't know) that he may have been ordered to stay away from a L daughter, who testified against him in his attempt murder trial. However, given that he reportedly had a long criminal history involving drugs and his rap sheet includes breaking into the bedroom of an elderly couple wielding a handgun, and given that he just got out of prison in January, I have been speculating about the possibility that he may have learned from the garage sale ads that they were planning to move, so then decided to show up demanding to know his ex-girlfriend's whereabouts and maybe demanding $400. with 8 years interest. His trial details, wherein he successfully explained how he inadvertently came to shoot his gf are quite amazing, as was the result - the entire incident making headlines everywhere. Nevertheless, he served 8 years on the handgun possession charges and the judge did admonish him for breaking into the older person's residence. Oh, the $400. ? Well, apparently he and the gf had been driving around town for several hours trying to find somebody to pony up the $400 she owed him. The task proved to be fruitless so she finally ordered him out of the vehicle at which point his illegal handgun - uhm - accidentally discharged - hitting her at close range - twice. I've no idea whether he is a POI although he certainly seems to exhibit a few highly qualifying elements. IMO. IMHO. Just sayin'.

Oh, she was 37 in 2006 (the time of the shooting) and he was 54. (You do the math.) Apparently, according to MSM, they'd broken up and she was living in Kelowna at that time, having come home to Calgary to spend Christmas with her family when the old bf reappeared, apparently demanding money and carrying the loaded 9 mm Baretta with the safety off - the one that accidentally went off - twice.

http://www.thecragandcanyon.ca/2013/04/10/man-who-dodged-jail-for-shooting-ex-in-breast-implants-gets-four-years-for-aftermath

I always wonder what happens to people once they are let out of prison. Where do they live? How do they get back into societ, get a job, a home, a car, etc. It baffles me. I should do some more 'googling' about this subject....

I wonder how/what this guy was doing since he was released.

 

[Ms.elle]

I think a random murderer would leave the bodies at the scene. Someone that is known to the victims might remove the bodies. When men murder their wives, they take them as far away as possible, but that's because they're trying to place distance between themselves and the body. In this case, if the perp knew the victims, he must have had a reason for removing them from the scene. Perhaps the child was the first to walk out of the house, perhaps it was the grandfather. Apparently none of the three were able to move or make a run for it. None of them was able to reach a cell phone and ask for help.

We know they weren't abducted to avoid leaving evidence of "medical distress", because there was evidence of violence and medical distress. If there is only one perp involved, and the person of interest has been in custody since Friday, going on six nights, then we know that police are not too concerned about making sure that he can give them food and water.

But when men murder their wives, it's usually to conceal that there was a crime/that a crime happened where it happened so that they can wait a few hours and place a panicked call to relatives/friends asking if their wife has been seen by anyone.

In this case it was apparently evident right off the bat that something violent happened in that house that would suggest that at least two of the three of them didn't leave of their own accord. Why move 3 bodies to hide that there was a crime if it's already evident that there has been a crime? Plus it would take considerable effort for one or even two persons to remove two adult bodies from the residence. Seems too risky.

It seems more likely to me that they were taken somewhere for a specific purpose. What that purpose may be, I have no idea. But I have been thinking, it seems lime the L's were making some efforts to remove their traceability. Renting a home rather than owning would remove them from the land registry in Calgary, differing stories about moving to Mexico/Edmonton, where they'd go first/for how long, kind of makes me wonder if there was someone they were trying to get away from.

 

[Sillybilly]

That is a very interesting look inside ADHD. Thanks for posting it, and welcome!

It's tough to make sweeping generalizations though, based on your personal experiences. For example, if there was intent to go harm, kill, or kidnap someone, I find it hard to believe they would simply lose interest because they had to wait, or circle the block a couple of times. Perhaps that just ads to the agitation required to go through with it.

As a side note, there has not been any definitive pattern, sighting times, or frequency released regarding the mystery truck to my knowledge.

Just jumping off your post here ...

Fortunately not all individuals with ADHD go on to develop psychopathy, but there can certainly be relationship between the two

from:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19387992

The relationship between attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, conduct disorder, and psychopathy in adolescent male and female detainees ...


Although ADHD and CD are apparent risk factors for adult psychopathy ....

from:
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/194/1/62.long

Children with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) are thought to be at higher risk of psychopathy. Early biological and social adversity may contribute to this risk ...

 

[Andromeda]

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/TV+Shows/The+National/Canada/ID/2472362366/

If you watch the specific video titled "Missing family case enters 10th day" which is 2:44 minutes in length I noted what may have been a telling slip of the tongue by the Calgary Police Chief at the 1:20 min mark when the Police Chief speaks highly of his LE and their tenacious efforts and then says "especially if it is a homicide" but caught himself nervously and then generalized his statement as all investigations. Did anyone catch that as well? Do LE already know it is a homicide?

Only since you posted it. I noted that "homicide" was involved from the beginning but then thought they are always involved in Amber Alerts? Hearing it articulated from LE is remarkable.