Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #8

[ElleElle]

Took a nap, woke up with this case on my mind. Could the perp have been caught while attempting to go somewhere to commit suicide?? Perhaps her knew what evidence was left, what cops could have found, and fled with the intention??

I've heard it said many times that a perp often returns to the scene of the crime. Could have been checking to see if everything was still hidden, or to further hide evidence. In this case, I would think LE could continue to trail him, and see where he leads them. Maybe he did, and we just haven't been told. If not, I wonder if LE did believe he was going to self harm so had to act when they did, rather than wait to see what he was up to.

I still can't imagine the shock, the horror, the pain that each victim's family and loved ones are experiencing. Yes even the perps family, as they are victims to his actions. His sister being brought into such a horrific crime involving her family as well. Just terrible. All through no fault of their own. That's the worse! Well, I guess the murders are the worse, but you know what I mean. To be thrown into such a tragedy through no actions of your own. Maybe because I have one brother, and his birthday is today that it's hitting me hard today. My brother lives on the opposite coast than I do, and thus through time, and distance, we aren't as close as we once were. But he's still my brother!!! I just can't imagine!!

Maybe they weren't close. Maybe they didn't even speak anymore. I don't know. But I do have empathy for her.

I was also thinking about prior posts today (really before the latest arrest happened) when lots of discussion about the businesses, bankruptcy, etc., were being discussed. While we probably won't know much more until trial, I've been thinking about this lots. I wonder if any of the family truly knew the financial status, and what was going on with the move etc. I personally have no idea how much money parents do or don't have. I know they aren't wanting for anything, but they live a very simple life with their home, and vehicles paid for. I don't think they are monetarily rich, though they are rich in many other ways. But I truly don't know. I do know they've never filed bankruptcy, but truly if they had at some point, I don't know that I would have known. Maybe it's just my family, but truly finances aren't discussed. Beyond knowing my parents have enough for their burials if something happens, it's just not a conversation, even when prompted. Even in talking about their future, etc. Maybe it was the same with the Liknes couple?

They could have been telling the truth, saying we're retiring, and would like to live our retirement. Think we'll go enjoy Mexico for awhile, and relax and reap the benefits of retirement and having worked our lives. Many people do downgrade their homes to smaller size when the extra rooms just aren't needed and more to keep clean. So it's very possible that's what they were doing. Selling their larger home for a retirement home that would cost less, and allow them travel and sight see. My parents have even talked of selling their place and renting a smaller place because neither is able to farm anymore, and have no desire to have anything but their garden for fresh veggies. Even that has decreased in size, and Mom says her canning days are over, and gave me her canning jars, and pressure canners.

It's also possible they didn't have a strict schedule or itinerary to when they were going to Mexico, when they were coming back etc. No need for such if retired and just wanting to travel some.

Have we actually found where they had bought another home? Or were they just thinking of moving to certain area and looking for home? Maybe they were tired of the harsh winters and wanted to secure a warmer place to stay in the winter, but didn't want to cut all ties to Canada because they knew they still had kids and grandkids that couldn't afford to leave their jobs, and security to move with them to Mexico.

I don't know how close the communities are either. Meaning how close your neighbors are to you, etc. Maybe they didn't feel it was really any of the neighbor's business where they moving, why, when, etc. If their plans hadn't been set in stone, then maybe whoever happened to ask go the answer as the Liknes knew at that time. Subject to change as they felt or wanted. Nothing sinister in different folks knowing different things, just floating dreams or thoughts and sharing what they felt on that day. Sadly, now we may never know. They didn't get to live their retirement and travel. They didn't get to watch the grandkids grow up, graduate, etc. Little did they know they'd never leave their home and enjoy another day. Just thinking of all the dreams and thoughts they had that last week, preparing for a new life, hopes high, dreams about to be lived, not realizing the evil that was lurking for the perfect storm to attack. Those dreams shattered. It's just unbelievable how lives can change so quickly.

And no matter how many crimes I've followed....the shock factor is there each time. Even when things look grim, I try to reach for that last bit of hope to hang onto. Sometimes hope shines through, and the missing are found, and other times, no amount of hope seems sufficient.

ALL JMO...as I ramble through my thoughts, and grieve for a family I never met, but shouldn't have died.

WOW You had a good, creative nap! :love:

 

[LoisLane]

The article you are quoting is dated July 9 2014. More has been obtained since then.

JMO

Yes, definitely more information has been obtained since then. What I am pointing out is that they were optimistic on July 9th that they did not have evidence to suggest that they were dead, if the amount and significance of the blood and body matter in the house was a determining factor that these 3 people are dead they would have known that from the beginning and all we would have been waiting for was DNA matches. If it was other body matter besides blood (brain) would they be able to recognize it as such in the beginning, if that was suspected they would have a lot more to go on that there was a high probability of death, not medical distress. That is how I follow it.

 

[Cherchri]

It's close, but not close enough that fireworks could be heard from their house. I could be wrong though.
But they went missing June 30. Stampede didn't start until July 4.
Perhaps there were pre-Canada Day fireworks going off in the area.

ETA: From the L's to the Stampede grounds is 3.3 km (7 mins) by car.
Probably too far away to hear fireworks.

I live slightly further away from the show grounds - about 1.5 km further Sw and I hear the fireworks clearly. My Labrador is terrified of fireworks, thunder and lightning and she does not enjoy stampede fireworks which go off at about 10:30 pm.

 

[ElleElle]

The homicide unit was involved on June 30. The medical examiner was at the house on the same day. I think there was hope that someone would be found alive, but I don't think it was ever expected that all three would be found alive. There was a violent event that resulted in medical distress, and police knew that right away.

Grrr. It's hard to not post gruesome forensic details, but hair is another sample.

 

[cathdawg]

I left the other eve as things got heated. I was also involved as I said things that I heard that were considered as "rumour".
I am saddened by what has transpired, my heart go out to the Families and Friends.

Regarding the truck, yes they did confiscate it. LE was attempting to find people out there that had seen it driving about. There was cctv that saw the vehicle in the hood. The other green truck found on the Airdrie property was an old PALE green truck.

 

[ElleElle]

Yes, definitely more information has been obtained since then. What I am pointing out is that they were optimistic on July 9th that they did not have evidence to suggest that they were dead, if the amount and significance of the blood and body matter in the house was a determining factor that these 3 people are dead they would have known that from the beginning and all we would have been waiting for was DNA matches. If it was other body matter besides blood (brain) would they be able to recognize it as such in the beginning, if that was suspected they would have a lot more to go on that there was a high probability of death, not medical distress. That is how I follow it.

In the beginning, "medical distress" is just a loose term to me. I was thinking medication, medical condition, what have you. I would of called it "trauma".

JMO

 

[Weebles]

Devin Heroux @Devin_Heroux
A memorial out front of Liknes home continues to grow. People standing around silent. Some crying. #cbc @CBCNews

https://twitter.com/Devin_Heroux

 

[otto]

In the beginning, "medical distress" is just a loose term to me. I was thinking medication, medical condition, what have you. I would of called it "trauma".

JMO

Police weren't ambiguous in what they meant. There was a violent crime, there was blood in the house, and the person that lost the blood would be in medical distress.

"Police said last week there was evidence a violent crime had occurred in the Liknes home and that blood found inside the house indicated whoever it belonged to would likely have been in medical distress."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...-of-nathan-o-brien-and-grandparents-1.2706455

 

[Cherchri]

Police said last week there was evidence a violent crime had occurred in the Liknes home and that blood found inside the house indicated whoever it belonged to would likely have been in medical distress.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/douglas-garland-to-be-charged-with-murder-of-nathan-o-brien-and-grandparents-1.2706455

You are correct in what you say except for one word..... LE never once mentioned the word blood. They said evidence. One reporter interpreted and reported that to mean blood but LE never used the word. Perhaps I should add - correct me if I can be proved wrong?

 

[ElleElle]

I left the other eve as things got heated. I was also involved as I said things that I heard were considered as "rumour".
I am saddened by what has transpired, my heart go out to the Families ans Friends.

Regarding the truck, yes they did confiscate it. LE was attempting to find people out there that had seen it driving about. There was cctv that saw the vehicle in the hood. The other green truck found on the Airdrie property was an old PALE green truck.

As much as it was rumour, we kinda all knew it. :hugs:

 

[wendiesan]

What the the heck is the "smoking gun"? A body, witness, weapon?

I think excrement, blood, vomit from a frightened, hurt little boy, and tortured grandparents found in at least one vehicle, and on the Airdrie property.

 

[otto]

"Police said Friday there was evidence a “violent crime” had occurred in the Liknes home.

“I would say somebody would be in medical distress,” Staff Sgt. Doug Andrus told reporters.

Andrus wouldn’t say blood was found in the home, but said forensic investigators are working to determine who might have suffered injuries there."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2014/07/05/21786581.html

 

[otto]

I think excrement, blood, vomit from a frightened, hurt little boy, and tortured grandparents found in at least one vehicle, and on the Airdrie property.

There was no smoking gun.

"Our Forensic Crime Scenes Unit has been absolutely meticulous in going over the scene and any piece of evidence we have. This file has been built piece by piece by piece by piece. If somebody out there is thinking that there's one piece that's the smoking gun, one piece of information that has led to a break in the case, I'm here to tell you that has been a compilation of an immense investigation. And, during the course of this investigation, every day the investigators have met and discussed the information--the new information, the new leads, the new evidence--and assessed that information relative to this file."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...algary-30-June-2014-8&p=10750599#post10750599

 

[Menci]

I remember reading one news source (I don't know if I can find it again quickly or otherwise), but it said that "an incident" occurred at the hotel, and he was asked to leave. And, the police chief in the news conference said, he was found "near" the Airdrie acreage IIRC.

My Google search: Calgary, Airdrie, hotel, incident

Shows up as (and note it's from 11 hours ago, and I bolded):

News for Calgary, Airdrie, hotel, incident

'Person of interest' in Calgary disappearance re-arrested
CTV News ‎- 11 hours ago
Douglas Garland, the man Calgary police questioned as a 'person of ... in Airdrie, Alta. after an incident at a hotel, CTV News has learned.

 

[Cherchri]

Huggs SB...you (and a few others) put so much time and heart into these cases. The connections we form by caring and giving are real and today is a sad day for the families and those who continued to hope. Now we all hope for healing and eventually justice.

Yes hugs from me too SillyBilly. I don't find you silly at all. Insightful, considerate, astute...... Lots of things BUT not silly. Xx

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

vomit, fecal matter...

Could you please reply w/ quote to what you're responding to, responses without make no sense...like this one. thx

 

[otto]

My Google search: Calgary, Airdrie, hotel, incident

Shows up as (and note it's from 11 hours ago, and I bolded):

News for Calgary, Airdrie, hotel, incident

'Person of interest' in Calgary disappearance re-arrested
CTV News ‎- 11 hours ago
Douglas Garland, the man Calgary police questioned as a 'person of ... in Airdrie, Alta. after an incident at a hotel, CTV News has learned.

Maybe he complained about the air conditioning.

 

[ElleElle]

Police weren't ambiguous in what they meant. There was a violent crime, there was blood in the house, and the person that lost the blood would be in medical distress.

"Police said last week there was evidence a violent crime had occurred in the Liknes home and that blood found inside the house indicated whoever it belonged to would likely have been in medical distress."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...-of-nathan-o-brien-and-grandparents-1.2706455

There is no blood evidence? Is there?

 

[LoisLane]

You are correct in what you say except for one word..... LE never once mentioned the word blood. They said evidence. One reporter interpreted and reported that to mean blood but LE never used the word. Perhaps I should add - correct me if I can be proved wrong?

This is the quote by Brookwell in the Calgary Herald that I am referring too. It has not been retracted or updated to report an error, but that could be.. I don't know.

3. They still consider the disappearance a missing persons case.

Police remain optimistic that they will find Nathan O’Brien and the Liknes couple alive.

“We have no indication whatsoever to indicate anything other than that, so the investigation continues,” Brookwell said. He acknowledged that the violent struggle that occurred at the Liknes home before the disappearance is “a concern,” but said police remain hopeful.

Here is the link to article: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/c...Amber+Alert+police+update/10011825/story.html

 

[otto]

There is no blood evidence? Is there?

Quite true. CBC stated that blood was in the house. Another newspaper said that police would not confirm that there was blood in the house. CBC was paraphrasing, the other newspaper was quoting. It has not been reported that there was blood in the house ... unless you believe the CBC reporter that was paraphrasing, but that is the only source I could find that reported that ... meaning it's probably not accurate.