CANADA Canada- Amanda Antoni, 31, found dead in her basement, considered suspicious but ruled an accidental fall down stairs, Calgary, 26/10/15, *Netflix*

[Normancita]

I don't recall blood spatter on the basement walls, I do recall blood smears.

We know she was on the phone with her husband when something happened. The dog yelped, the phone was disconnected. The phone was found on the floor of the dining room. Stairs are roughly 9' away. Animals may have moved phone, but not necessarily. Animals were probably afraid of the smell of blood - not playing with phones.

If someone was in the house with her, either she was too stunned while on the phone to utter a word, or she knew that person was in the house.

There were questions about whether there were other footprints, and whether the blood was smeared to obscure that evidence.

Now I am questioning if a thorough job was done collecting DNA. Could they have missed it?

 

[otto]

Maybe I’m crazy but I feel like tripping over the yellow bag would have pushed the piggy bank off the ledge. It’s almost like Lalacasbah mentioned, it seems she’s have to be going UP the stairs to hit and smash off the face of the piggy bank.

Do you have a picture of the dent? What’s the angle? If it’s straight back, then she would have to have fallen from the kitchen into the “hole,” to hit the bank at that angle, no?

The yellow bag is tipped, and it looks like sports equipment and a soccer ball. If she tripped over that bag, and right handed, she might have grabbed the railing, swung around, and hit her head into the ceramic lamb. Freak accident. Then she must have fallen backwards down the stairs to get all those head injuries.

I think we have to watch Netflix again to figure out where the dent is in relation to the ceramic lamb.

 

[Normancita]

Speaking of smearing to potentially cover evidence, doesn’t the smearing in the bottom right corner look very symmetrical and even?

It doesn’t look haphazard as if done by a person bleeding out in medical distress.

 

[otto]

RSBM: A bit off topic of your post sorry, but you have the pic I was looking for here

That pic with the base of the stairs and black thing in the corner, does it not look like spatter between base of stairs and that black thing? Someone could have stayed on that bottom step, hunched over to administer head wounds with an object if she was laying there on the ground. IIRC that's the only really 'spatter' I noticed from the pics/footage in that spot.

If there is blood spatter anywhere after the last step, then it suggests that she was hit with something.

Like Mike Peterson and his Staircase.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Nothing else fell down the stairs.
We almost need an animation showing how this is possible. Someone upthread suggested that it might have happened while she was walking upstairs. I can see how that might happen, but then she has to tumble backwards after ramming her head into the ceramic lamb to get the injuries on the back of her head. The force needed? Slipped on the step?

Where is the dent in the wall behind the ceramic lamb? Does it tell us whether she hit it from above, or while walking up the stairs?

View attachment 526545

I guess that's where a defense lawyer would come in if ever anyone charged, to present an animation showing the acrobatics and crazy physics to get all those injuries from a fall down 9 stairs!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Speaking of smearing to potentially cover evidence, doesn’t the smearing in the bottom right corner look very symmetrical and even?

It doesn’t look haphazard as if done by a person bleeding out in medical distress.

Yes I see what you mean with a possible slight repetitive type pattern.

 

[otto]

Speaking of smearing to potentially cover evidence, doesn’t the smearing in the bottom right corner look very symmetrical and even?

It doesn’t look haphazard as if done by a person bleeding out in medical distress.

That's what police thought. They found drops of blood on top of smeared blood, hoping that it would lead to a second suspect. Instead, it told investigators that Amanda stood up after the blood was smeared. She bled onto the floor. That must have been when she walked to the stairs, but did not go up the stairs.

I wonder whether there is blood on the hand rail - did she hold the railing to go upstairs, or not?

 

[otto]

I guess that's where a defense lawyer would come in if ever anyone charged, to present an animation showing the acrobatics and crazy physics to get all those injuries from a fall down 9 stairs!

It's very difficult to visualize how she could have gone from being on the phone in the dining room to going head first into the ceramic lamb.

 

[Normancita]

It's very difficult to visualize how she could have gone from being on the phone in the dining room to going head first into the ceramic lamb.

Not if the assailant knocked the phone out of AA’s hand (hence the far distance from the stairs) and AA ran to the basement out of panic.

 

[otto]

Not if the assailant knocked the phone out of AA’s hand (hence the far distance from the stairs) and AA ran to the basement out of panic.

It's much easier to envision what happened if we add another person to the scenario. Tipped off her chair, knocked her over, she dropped her phone, it was disabled, and she is catapulted into the stairwell, or taken to the stairwell landing and injured with the ceramic lamb.

 

[FromGermany1]

AA tries to go back UP the stairs, culprit does a forehead/head smash on the piggy bank to daze her from behind AA while AA is trying to get UP stairs, pushes AA down stairs where she lands at base of stairs.

I try to understand your scenario. Still not successful at this. My problem. - How does the perp get behind AA on the stairs? She returns and is going up the stairs and he is behind her, but how did he get there, when he before was above her on the landing and she was running down the stairs?

 

[FromGermany1]

If murder, it does seem deliberate ... from something happening while she was on the phone with her husband, to the phone being 9 feet from the top of the stairs, and the only thing she hit on the landing was the lamb piggy bank ... with her face. From the landing, there is evidence down the stairs and in a nearby corner of the basement that could be accident or murder.

Without knowing what type of pants she was wearing (e.g.: jeans, sweats), hard to say why they were down - since the theory for back of head injuries seems to be that she bounced down the stairs on her head.

I don't think the "fancy panties" should be set aside as 'red herring'. After 6 years of marriage, her husband knew that the underwear she was wearing when she died was "fancy" and not something he was used to. It stood out because it was so unusual.

Did she have a migraine on Friday, or was she driving around running errands? Both can't be true.

Amanda was kind to people less fortunate, per her obituary. She could have befriended someone with the belief that she was safe with that person. Instead, while she was on the phone with her husband - giving no indication that anything was wrong, something happened that left her bleeding out on the basement floor.

I just realized that the bottom photo is of the lamb intact, pre-incident.

View attachment 526542

I don't think, the lamb is seen intact, neither on the first pic nor on the second pic. The lamb is broken on both pics, only the perspective has changed. IMO
ETA: I think, LE did take 2 photos: One is the original, when they first saw the scene: cleaning bucket in laundry basket and towel on top. The next and second pic shows the separated bucket/basket for investigation details to be saved. IMO
It is impossible to have a pic with an UNbroken piggy bank/lamb, which shows the laundry basket as it is. Who should have taken a photo before the crime?

 

[sunspun]

It's much easier to envision what happened if we add another person to the scenario. Tipped off her chair, knocked her over, she dropped her phone, it was disabled, and she is catapulted into the stairwell, or taken to the stairwell landing and injured with the ceramic lamb.

re: "catapulted into the stairwell"

That's a good way to put it. Because I feel like she would have to have hit that bank face first SO hard, that there's just no way she got injured so very badly, except if she almost literally came FLYING at it, SAILING into it, imo.

I don't think it's possible it could've happened while coming UP the stairs, because I think the only way it was possible was to have a LOT of forward momentum... unrestrained momentum... in other words, she came at it at high velocity, unimpeded by anything that might have slowed her down, like trying to block her fall or hitting any other objects along the way or anything else. Almost like you said, CATAPULTED into it. Which might happen if you get pushed hard, with no warning (you don't see it coming... like from behind, completely unaware it was about to happen... no chance to break your fall at all.) And even then, seems like it'd have to be from a height or a drop off, not on a level surface.

Just the way it was, on the landing at the top of their stairs, where it turns at the very top, where there is no handrail. Somehow she just flew over that drop off and landed face first into that bank. Where she would've otherwise taken a step or found the floor with her feet, which would've slowed her down, she found no surface at all, just the drop off leading downstairs. If there hadn't been a drop off there, she might have found her footing on a flat surface, and might still have fallen down the stairs, but not with the force that she did fall, and not ending up w/the terrible injuries that she died from. And not with shards of the piggy bank embedded in her face and head.

 

[dotr]

Speaking of smearing to potentially cover evidence, doesn’t the smearing in the bottom right corner look very symmetrical and even?

It doesn’t look haphazard as if done by a person bleeding out in medical distress.

Wondering if any of the basement flooring was lifted to check for foreign DNA?
If in fact somebody did smear the blood to obscure whatever foreign DNA may have initially been there, it could have seeped deep into the floor and still be present. speculation, imo.

 

[otto]

I don't think, the lamb is seen intact, neither on the first pic nor on the second pic. The lamb is broken on both pics, only the perspective has changed. IMO
ETA: I think, LE did take 2 photos: One is the original, when they first saw the scene: cleaning bucket in laundry basket and towel on top. The next and second pic shows the separated bucket/basket for investigation details to be saved. IMO
It is impossible to have a pic with an UNbroken piggy bank/lamb, which shows the laundry basket as it is. Who should have taken a photo before the crime?

You are right - it's the angle, deceptive. So the piggy bank could have been more to the left and not behind the hand rail beforehand.

 

[FromGermany1]

Seeking Public Assistance - Men Wanted on Warrants

The Calgary Police Service is seeking public assistance in locating two men, one of whom is wanted on warrants in connection with a recent incident in Castleridge. At approximately 5:45 a.m., on Thursday, Nov. 26, 2015, an officer was dispatched to a...

newsroom.calgary.ca

I searched for incidents in the same area in 2015 and found this. Of course, it may have nothing to do with other crimes and nothing with Amanda's death. But 1 month after A's death there were two men, one of them threatening a resident and both running (?) away, before police arrived.
The initial call for help came from someone inside the home who said two men were at the address threatening to shoot one of the residents. The two men left the home before police arrived, however, warrants have now been issued for one of the men.
Since the homes are only 3 min. away from each other, I think, maybe there could be a connection. Amanda's neighbour saw a man running away through neighbor yards after something happened at A's home. So, it makes sense, not to believe in an accident only, which happened without the presence of a stranger. If we would know the motive, these men had while threatening the nearby resident, we would know more. Possibly the motive at A's home was similar? MOO + speculation.

 

[HockeyMom330]

No lights in the basement, where the washer/dryer was located? That sounds like another code violation. I'm skeptical. There must have been lights in the basement. It looks like a developer neighbourhood with standard 35' lot floorplans.

Forced air furnace means the basement is the same temperature as the rest of the house - especially since the furnace is in the basement.

I disagree with this as well. Why would the basement be "pitch black" and "really cold"? It's not a cellar.

6. Basement is pitch black and would've been really cold that time of year.

 

[HockeyMom330]

I'm still having a serious problem with that piggy bank. Not just the angle but the break.

It looked pretty thick from the photo. Wouldn't she have to hit it twice? Once to crack/break it and a second to get the fatal slice/cut? IIRC the shards on the stairs looked quite small and it was described fragments embedded into her forehead, the fatal cut was right side of orbital/eye to forehead.

It almost seems like a smash with forehead to break the object and with that pointed jagged exposed a second hit would make quite a cut. Unless the piggy bank's whole face just cracked off with one impact, but then why the fragments if so?

And is it a lamb or a pig? I have tried to find a match to see original 'face' of the bank, searching all over but nothing yet.

View attachment 526301

Maybe when AA fell into (or was thrown into) the piggy bank it shifted position on the ledge, but did not fall off. Notice how the front right leg of the 'animal' is overhanging the ledge slightly. That might explain whey the angle of the break does not seem consistent with the angle in which she would have tumbled down the stairs, as it may have initially been facing a different direction. If I were placing a breakable ornament on a ledge, I'd make sure it place it in a way that it would be unlikely to fall.

 

[HockeyMom330]

That's what police thought. They found drops of blood on top of smeared blood, hoping that it would lead to a second suspect. Instead, it told investigators that Amanda stood up after the blood was smeared. She bled onto the floor. That must have been when she walked to the stairs, but did not go up the stairs.

I wonder whether there is blood on the hand rail - did she hold the railing to go upstairs, or not?

 

[HockeyMom330]

So many things about this case are intriguing, which leave me conflicted as to whether this was an accident or homicide. Sorry in advance for the length of the post, there is just so much to consider.

-AA decided at the 'last minute' that she was not going to accompany her husband on a weekend trip to Saskatchewan due to her suffering from migraines. This was supposedly the first time her husband went away with out her during their marriage of several years. To me this suggests that if this was a murder, it was either a random crime of opportunity, or someone who knew about the change of plans took advantage of the situation. She wasn't supposed to be home alone that weekend.

-The neighborhood where AA lived is a bit sketchy. It has a higher than average crime rate and attracts transients. AA was reportedly not involved in a high risk lifestyle, but did geography play a role in her death?

-Despite having migraines AA was able to able to run errands and was using her phone regularly on Friday and Saturday. I would think that going outside, driving, and screen time would aggravate a migraine, so it is questionable to me if her headaches were really as bad as she let on to her husband. Could it have been an excuse to stay home, and if so, why? Was it to care for her pets? Was she hoping to hook-up with someone? Did she not get along with her MIL?

-What was the status of AA & LA's marriage at the time of her death? Reportedly there was no history of domestic violence, and the couple did lots of fun things together, but there was a rumor that AA may have wanted a divorce. Also, AA confided in her brother that she was irritated that her husband couldn't hold down a job. I don't think there was ever any evidence uncovered to suggest that AA or LA was having an affair, but the fact that AA was found deceased wearing 'fancy panties' that her husband is adamant are out of character for her day-to-day use, makes a person wonder. What would motivate a woman whose intimate partner is away, and who is feeling sick, to put on lingerie instead of a more casual, comfortable pair of underwear? Was there in fact another man (or woman) over that weekend?

-AA was using cannabis, and maybe OTC or prescription meds for migraines, and possibly other 'herbal' remedies at the time of her death. Did any of these substances play a role in her death, such as getting dizzy and falling, or engaging in erratic behavior?

-AA was likely on her phone talking to her husband at the exact time the incident that caused her fatality was initiated. IMO this is eerie. He reported hearing their dog bark and then yelp. Then a 'crashing' sound and then the call was disconnected. Even though her husband is not a suspect, I find it suspicious that he didn't do more to check up on his wife after the way their phone call ended abruptly. Knowing that his wife was home alone and suffering from migraines, and suddenly out of touch, why did he not ask her mom or a neighbor to do a welfare check?

-What was the nature of the last phone call that LA had with AA, and who initiated the call? Did they argue? Were they just discussing mundane things, like what they had done that day? Did they normally communicate by phone or more so by text?

-A dining chair was found toppled on the main floor, and AA's phone (with broken screen) was found on the opposite side of the dining table from where the chair was but nothing else was out of place. It makes me wonder if AA was sitting in the chair, talking to her husband on the phone, when the 'incident' began, and if so, how did she get from the dining area to the basement, and get fatally wounded in the process?

-What is the reason that AA's dog, who is said to be quiet, suddenly started barking and then let out a yelp around 7:00 pm on the Saturday? Did someone come in the back door, alerting the dog to bark, and then perhaps kick the dog causing it to yelp? If so, AA may have gotten up from her chair quickly to investigate, causing it to topple or been forcibly removed. But if she still had possession of her phone, why not scream or tell her husband that someone is in the house?

-A witness/neighbor reported seeing a man running near AA's home around the time AA was on the phone with her husband. Did he have any involvement or was it a coincidence? Perhaps he was prowling in the yard but scared off by the barking. When AA got up to investigate she tripped over the excited dog, causing it to yelp and her to fall down the stairs, striking her head on the ceramic piggy bank.

-There is no question in my mind that AA's head struck the piggy bank pictured on the ledge in the stairwell (fragments of it were found embedded in her forehead and it was broken). I do wonder though how it wasn't knocked off the ledge if AA was basically catapulted into it with enough force to cause a fatal wound? How was the wound severe enough to cause her to bleed to death, but not be severe enough to fracture her skull or cause a brain injury? It seems like this should have been a treatable injury yet the amount of blood shed all over the basement was said to make it one of the most gruesome crime scenes ever analyzed by LE.

-Why does it look like (IMO) the blood on the basement floor has been wiped/smeared, and how did the trail of blood droplets on top of the smeared blood occur? Did AA lay bleeding, unconscious on the basement floor for a short period of time and then get up and walk towards the stairs (her footprints were found in blood at the base of the stairwell). If she had the strength/awareness to get up and walk towards the stairs, why not attempt to go up?

-There was no sign of forced entry to AA's home. If this was a murder, was the suspect let in by AA (likely someone she knew and trusted), or did he/she sneak in through an unlocked door? Or did they have a key, and if so, who would have had key access--maybe a previous tenant, family member, or friend?

-If this was a murder, what was the motive? Is there any connection to the social services report AA made about her SIL that resulted in the SIL's children being removed from her custody? AA was reportedly not on good terms with the SIL, and may even have been afraid of her. AA's husband brought up his own sister as a suspect to LE, but she was reportedly cleared. Any other jealous, resentful, or angry relatives?

-AA was found clothed, but with her pants slightly pulled down. Is this indicative of a sexually-motivated crime? Did someone do this to show dominance/power/control over AA or to humiliate her? Was it staged to throw off LE? Did AA try to remove her clothing in a moment of disorientation?

-Besides no forced entry, LE was unable to find any foreign DNA in AA's home. No blood/DNA, no hairs, no fibers, no fingerprints, no footprints. Basically no hard evidence that anyone was in the home with AA when she died. It is mainly for this reason that AA's death was deemed an accident, but was something missed? Or was the perpetrator exceptionally lucky or adept at covering his tracks?

-LE did not find any footprints in the blood from AA's dog (who was inside the home when LA returned from his trip). Why didn't the dog go down the stairs (which were openly accessible) even once in the 44 hours between the timing of AA's dropped phone call and the discovery of her body?