CANADA Canada - Ariel Jeffrey Kouakou, 10, Montreal, 12 March 2018

[otto]

I think it’s a cultural thing. Even when the father was appealing for information he mentioned that for anyone who did not trust or want to talk to the police that they could call him directly on his cell phone.

What a strange idea to have regarding Canada. I have to wonder why someone would choose to live in a country where they think the police cannot be trusted! I think the police would be tremendously thankful if the volunteers assisted with the investigation rather than wandering around strip malls and other buildings looking for a child who entered, but did not leave, the park.

It's also surprising that the family claimed that they did not see CCTV footage from the restaurant of Ariel entering the park when we know that they met with the restaurant to view their CCTV footage. Were they already so determined to believe that Ariel was abducted at the parkade that they did not look at people entering the park?

 

[freudianslip]

Very interesting discussion highlighting how the SPVM not only dropped the ball on communications, but also by not acting quickly enough during the crucial first hours after Ariel was reported missing and failling to use all available resources (initially refusing assistance from the SQ and Reseau Enfant-Retour for instance).

I think this may explain why the family and the community as a whole have come to doubt LE. The parents were left agonizing without any kind of support during the first night.

It also shows why the abduction theory cannot yet be dismissed.

In French
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/tele/tout-le-monde-en-parle/site/segments/entrevue/64829/ariel-douakou-disparition-guy-ryan-pina-arcamone-monic-neron-enfants-retour

 

[carbuff]

What a strange idea to have regarding Canada. I have to wonder why someone would choose to live in a country where they think the police cannot be trusted! I think the police would be tremendously thankful if the volunteers assisted with the investigation rather than wandering around strip malls and other buildings looking for a child who entered, but did not leave, the park.

It's also surprising that the family claimed that they did not see CCTV footage from the restaurant of Ariel entering the park when we know that they met with the restaurant to view their CCTV footage. Were they already so determined to believe that Ariel was abducted at the parkade that they did not look at people entering the park?

Lots of people in the US don't trust the police either. Especially poor people, immigrants, and people of color.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

 

[otto]

Very interesting discussion highlighting how the SPVM not only dropped the ball on communications, but also by not acting quickly enough during the crucial first hours after Ariel was reported missing and failling to use all available resources (initially refusing assistance from the SQ and Reseau Enfant-Retour for instance).

I think this may explain why the family and the community as a whole have come to doubt LE. The parents were left agonizing without any kind of support during the first night.

It also shows why the abduction theory cannot yet be dismissed.

In French
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/tele/tout-le-monde-en-parle/site/segments/entrevue/64829/ariel-douakou-disparition-guy-ryan-pina-arcamone-monic-neron-enfants-retour

The parents reported Ariel missing at 7PM. Regardless of drowning or kidnapping, a rapid response hours after something happened wasn't necessary. What services did the family reach out to on the day that Ariel disappeared?

 

[otto]

Lots of people in the US don't trust the police either. Especially poor people, immigrants, and people of color.

It's almost common knowledge that black people don't trust police in the USA. Canada is a different country with different laws, people, and governments.

 

[carbuff]

It's almost common knowledge that black people don't trust police in the USA. Canada is a different country with different laws, people, and governments.

I am aware of that. I was addressing your implication that they should have gone someplace else if they don't trust the police. It's such a common problem that you'll probably run into it wherever you go. And it's not surprising that they and their friends would feel that way.

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[GinaSeikwa]

Well not for nothing but I am a white middle aged female whose ancestors have been in Canada for generations but I am also an anglophone in Quebec and for that reason alone I am not sure I completely trust the police here in Quebec. My husband has had bad experiences when he called 911 on two separate occasions to report a prowler and a dangerous driver and both times the 911 dispatcher admonished my Halifax born husband for speaking English and hung up on him. We did file an official complaint and received an apology after an investigation but the experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

Back to Ariel. I’m curious what steps the parents were taking between the hours of 4:30pm when they discovered the friend hadn’t seen him and 7pm when they called the police?

 

[freudianslip]

The parents reported Ariel missing at 7PM. Regardless of drowning or kidnapping, a rapid response hours after something happened wasn't necessary. What services did the family reach out to on the day that Ariel disappeared?

At the time, the parents thought he'd left home at noon and was last seen knocking at his friend's door.
So the information police had at 7 pm was that a 10 year old boy had been missing for 7 hours.
It was a very cold evening and a heavy snow fall was expected,

Reseau Enfants Retour reached out to the family via LE as soon the news broke. It took hours for them to be able to reach anyone and when they finally did they were told their assistance wasn't required.

 

[thelesis]

We've seen a bajillion cases where parents refuse to believe their child suffered an accidental death until their body is found. They hold on to the hope their child is still alive, even if abducted by someone with malicious intentions. Can we stop playing the 'exotic immigrant' card? This isn't Criminal Minds: Beyond Borders.

 

[freudianslip]

It's almost common knowledge that black people don't trust police in the USA. Canada is a different country with different laws, people, and governments.

Racial profiling by SPVM is a known problem in Montreal and tensions are very real between the police and some communities, especially since the death of Fredy Villanueva in 2008.
Many antiracist and human rights activist groups have been asking for a public inquiry to look into systemic racism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Fredy_Villanueva

 

[Hazel]

This is the best I can find so far - looks like it is part of the pathway.

View attachment 131962

I think this is that boardwalk.
This picture is from the first vigil held, and posted Mar 16, 2018
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...-ahuntsic-cartierville-search-march-1.4578921

 

[Phei]

Well not for nothing but I am a white middle aged female whose ancestors have been in Canada for generations but I am also an anglophone in Quebec and for that reason alone I am not sure I completely trust the police here in Quebec. My husband has had bad experiences when he called 911 on two separate occasions to report a prowler and a dangerous driver and both times the 911 dispatcher admonished my Halifax born husband for speaking English and hung up on him. We did file an official complaint and received an apology after an investigation but the experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

Back to Ariel. I’m curious what steps the parents were taking between the hours of 4:30pm when they discovered the friend hadn’t seen him and 7pm when they called the police?

I'm the same, I'm bilingual but speak mainly English everywhere I go, and although I never had problems with 911, SPVM, I did with SQ.

 

[Hazel]

Some Google Earth images of the park in different seasons using the History feature. I don't think any of these actually represents the conditions of the river this March but it is interesting to see how ice and snow change the landscape.
View attachment 131966View attachment 131967View attachment 131968View attachment 131969

That's great eucalyptuz! How do you access the History feature? Do we need to sign up to Google maps? Do we need an account or not?

 

[Phei]

You can see the walkway here, you can move the picture around for a 360 degree angle.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156292551429810&set=pcb.10156292606219810&type=3&theater

 

[Hazel]

You can see the walkway here, you can move the picture around for a 360 degree angle.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156292551429810&set=pcb.10156292606219810&type=3&theater

Thank you Phei, great photos!

From that set of 360 degrees photos, this photo shows the boardwalk (view from the river) when moving the picture around 180 degrees.
Link: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156292551904810

 

[Hazel]

(On a personal note, living in Canada, with so many lakes, rivers, parks, woods and forests, I can't imagine not taking my children to the woods or near water to play and explore!)

This is an old video that I haven't seen before. My apologies for bringing back old news, but I'm trying to gather as many bits and pieces.

At the end of this news video, around the 02:00 mark, reporter says Ariel's father said "while he is grateful for the police efforts, he believes they are off base searching in the water. He says Ariel will never go play near the river."

(quote) "We've never been to the riverside, not even in the woods. My son and I, we have never been in the woods." So for me it's impossible he could do that by himself. " (end of quote)

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/searc...d-montreal-boy-missing-since-monday-1.3847238

 

[Amonet]

It's almost common knowledge that black people don't trust police in the USA. Canada is a different country with different laws, people, and governments.

He was asking for information from other people. I think he was just saying that if a person had information and didn't want to contact the police they could contact him.

The other people might have reasons to not want to talk to police, they might be minor criminals, junkies, illegal immigrants, etc. It could be someone who knows 'the abductor' who is scared of coming forward because 'the abductor' is a relative or loved one.

You might perceive Canada as being relatively safe in terms of stranger abductions, but you've been on this forum for 14 years! Most people have misconceptions about the risk, and the emotional side of them finds it hard to deal with when their child is at much at risk as the next child and there's nothing the parent can do to change that. They can teach about stranger danger, they can keep an eye on the kids as much as is reasonably possible, but not 24/7. People don't know when or where the next stranger abduction might happen or if it might be their child, and it scares people when a child in their neighborhood goes missing that it might be an abduction, and they get extra fearful and walk the kid to the store on the corner or a friend's house a block away even though the child's been doing that by themselves for several years. I'm pretty sure that even people who *do* know the statistics feel that way.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think they should listen to the father, and not discount what he is saying. He knows his child.

 

[otto]

I am aware of that. I was addressing your implication that they should have gone someplace else if they don't trust the police. It's such a common problem that you'll probably run into it wherever you go. And it's not surprising that they and their friends would feel that way.

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Personally, I find the idea that police are untrustworthy as very odd. I think in most Canadian, European, and Australian cities, the police are trusted, and at the very least treated with a respect for the challenging jobs they do.

I've never seen a situation where the family decides to run their own investigation chasing a theory that has no evidence, and to gather community support for that unfounded theory.

 

[dotr]

https://globalnews.ca/news/4105923/gps-tracking-to-protect-kids/

“It’s a question of knowing where your kid is and what they do,” she told Global News from her living room, as her kids prepared to leave for school.

So when her oldest daughter started high school four years ago Guevremont started using an iPhone to track her.

“It’s an app that’s called Find my Friends on the iPhone,” she explained.

It gives her peace of mind knowing that she can find her child if she needs to, at the touch of a screen.

“So if something happens to her on her way to school, I know where she is,” she said.

GPS monitoring of kids by parents is nothing new. It can be done via mobile apps or wearable devices. But since Kouakou went missing, there has been renewed interest. That’s because some people, including the boy’s family, believe he was abducted.

“This has created a sense of panic and anxiety in the province,” said Pina Arcamone, Director General for the Missing Children’s Network.