CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #3

[Hazel]

Was able to have another conversation with the lawyer that obtained a copy of the Will for me/us. He is very happy to know that there are people that care enough to ask the questions that are being asked.

Some questions he/myself would like to see answered - by LE or anyone else.

How was the Will created? On a computer/typed by AG or someone else, book store kit etc? It was not in his opinion created by a lawyer as it would not read the way it does.

One should look at the original Will to see if was carried around in a purse for 4 years. It should be obvious. It may also contain notes on the back of some pages. It did not have to be found at AG's house - it could have been anywhere.

One does not put in a provision for a child/children if one never had children. Apparently full stop on that one. If someone came forward now claiming to be the biological offspring of AG - they would be entitled to everything.

Elderly people always make provisions for theirs pets in their Wills. This made so much sense to me in light of the child clause.

On form 74.4 - Application for Certificate ... (the one that LAV had a lawyer file in Hamilton Superior Court of Justice) personal property is anything that is not real estate. Cash, investments, vehicles, furniture etc. If this value was understated, one could take this up with the courts - who is there to do this for LAV though if there are doubts?

One really needs to talk to the witnesses of the Will. Did they sign this for AG or someone else? Did AG know at least one of the witnesses? Did AG take the will to them?

Who else lives on Pippin Drive, Brantford?

This list might not be complete, but something is better than nothing:

http://www.411.com/search/ReverseAddress?street=Pippin+Drive&where=Brantford%2C+ON

27 Pippin Drive is not on the list. It goes from 26 to 28:

XX Poladian -- 26 Pippin Dr,Brantford, ON

X Todd -- 28 Pippin Dr,Brantford, ON

the house on the right (our right) of house shown on map is 29 (click on the right arrow once, and look for 29 on the white lamppost),

so I'm guessing the house with the brown garage door should be 27? the seven is illegible:

(could someone else doublecheck for me please, I might be mistaken) http://g.co/maps/7tm4w

 

[nicgumshoe]

Yeah, I just don't get why she'd leave/put in that part about the child(ren). The more I ponder it, the more it seems really strange after all. In the case of a kit, I can't see her leaving it in there because she thought it might be important. The lingo is clear enough, and imo if she had no kids she would have cut it out.

Then again, maybe she forgot to cut it out, and when she saw it there after printing, she thought, "no biggy cuz I have no kids," and just left it.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Hey guys, sorry to interject a different topic here (other than the Will) but I've been trying to connect the dots with SL, SV and AG. So -

Questions:

1. Didn't someone tell us way back that AG once owned a horse or was interested in horses but AG never told anyone about that?

2. Wasn't SL's car found in an alley near a horseracing area?

3. Was SL in any way involved with horses? Did she train them? Own them? Race them?

For some unknown reason, this horse thing popped into my head this afternoon.

Anybody out there who can help?

:tyou:

--------------

And also now about the Will - what do we know about LV's family? Parents, neices and nephews, in-laws, and were any members of the LV extended family involved with horses? Did LV's parents have many/any grandchildren who might have been thought of in the Will ("children")?
:deadhorse:

 

[roseofsharon]

Hey guys, sorry to interject a different topic here (other than the Will) but I've been trying to connect the dots with SL, SV and AG. So -

Questions:

1. Didn't someone tell us way back that AG once owned a horse or was interested in horses but AG never told anyone about that?

2. Wasn't SL's car found in an alley near a horseracing area?

3. Was SL in any way involved with horses? Did she train them? Own them? Race them?

For some unknown reason, this horse thing popped into my head this afternoon.

Anybody out there who can help?

:tyou:

--------------

And also now about the Will - what do we know about LV's family? Parents, neices and nephews, in-laws, and were any members of the LV extended family involved with horses? Did LV's parents have many/any grandchildren who might have been thought of in the Will ("children")?
:deadhorse:

Also, I am wondering if SL may have photographed horses.

 

[bodhi93]

From the spec article (link) we know that AG was enrolled in science at McMaster. Do we know what year she completed teacher's college?

[modsnip]. Maybe AG met this witness at college.

Sorry for being vague, but I didn't know if I could use her initials since she hasn't been named in MSM.

 

[Woodland]

Thank-you for the link bodhi93 to what appears to be a witness to AG's Will. The license number does appear on the Ontario Teacher's College website as valid and has the same name. The other witness is also a nurse in good standing with the Ontario Nurse's Association.

So they appear to be who they are suppose to be. Did they know AG and witness her signature on her Will, or did someone else ask them to sign? Or did someone purporting to be them sign it? This is something LE should definitely have checked as part of their due diligence.

AG married Alan Gleave on the day she graduated from TC in 1969.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Well, I'm still going on the assumption/theory that AG was murdered by:

- a 'young and close' male
- the motive, hatred of women (not the Will, not the property, etc.)
- I still think SL and possibly SV were attacked by the same male

Now, this 'young and close' male MIGHT have a friend/girlfriend/wife/whatever who is protecting him. Perhaps this second person didn't know about the killer having done the killing until later on. Maybe the killer wanted to have his cake and eat it, too! [modsnip]

For me, and I may only speak for myself, I'm feeling that this Will stuff is interesting but really is not the way to go.

And I'm still trying to link the dots between SV, SL and AG. At least, between AG and SL because they were attacked merely weeks apart in the darkness of December.

As we get closer to December, this is all coming back far too clearly. Look outside at the bleak, dark and short days. It's a time of year when some unbalanced people lose it because they cannot cope.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it!!

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Trying to connect the dots as I say between AG and SL (I'll get back to SV later, I'm sure):

1. AG was looking for a wedding photographer and SL does wedding photos.:cake:

2. Both live in remote areas possibly with horses and people who ride horses.:bananalama:

3. Both were alone - SL worked alone at home in her barn thus making her a target for a maniac/angry guy.

4. Do we know if SL smoked? I'm sure she wouldn't want to sully the photographs, so perhaps she was seen outside (as AG used her garage) to have a smoke while working on the photographs.

5. Both were attacked in December, weeks apart. Does the attacker/killer have something against the festive Xmas season? Does he have seasonal affective disorder to the extreme?

6. Did a potential client of SL take her a gift of Xmas-type food as a way of gaining her trust? :cupcake:

7. Money - was SL asking too much for the photographs and therefore "deserved" (in the attacker's mind) to be killed. I know she wasn't killed, but I firmly believe that was the intention of the attacker.:maddening:

8. Why does the composite of the guy seen near SL's house look familiar? The composite surely is young and somehow he also could have been close in some way.

9. I still believe the FBI's theory that AG's killer is young and close.

Does any of this make sense to you guys? Or, is the Will the main theory the rest of you are going with in the AG case?

:tyou:

[modsnip]

---------------

ETA: Ooooops, I forgot to add the workboots from the SV killing. Do we know if LE found any footprints near the SL and AG crime scenes? I know it was raining when AG's body was found (or shortly thereafter). Does anyone know of prints at the SL and AG crime scenes?

:gthanks:

 

[libyana]

i think all these women have to have been stalked, they all had habits with pets too.
AG's dogs, SV's cat and I believe SL had a dog. They were surrounded by trees and could have been easily watched for a long time. I wonder if the perp phoned them to get them to open their doors/? Also he must be carrying murder weapons around with him, how does he do that, how does one carry knives and bludgeons around, backpack?
But lots of people do that, maybe a sportbag.

 

[LilyMacBloom]

On the horse, not that I think this has anything to do with anything. I wonder why having a horse would be such a big secret? But having other pets, cat named Ming and prior dogs is not (a secret). Also, since there are no barns on the property AG would have had to board the horse. I wonder where?

 

[nicgumshoe]

Well, I'm still going on the assumption/theory that AG was murdered by:

- a 'young and close' male
- the motive, hatred of women (not the Will, not the property, etc.)
- I still think SL and possibly SV were attacked by the same male

Now, this 'young and close' male MIGHT have a friend/girlfriend/wife/whatever who is protecting him. Perhaps this second person didn't know about the killer having done the killing until later on. Maybe the killer wanted to have his cake and eat it, too! :doughboy:

For me, and I may only speak for myself, I'm feeling that this Will stuff is interesting but really is not the way to go.

And I'm still trying to link the dots between SV, SL and AG. At least, between AG and SL because they were attacked merely weeks apart in the darkness of December.

As we get closer to December, this is all coming back far too clearly. Look outside at the bleak, dark and short days. It's a time of year when some unbalanced people lose it because they cannot cope.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it!!

Yep! I'm pretty much in this camp too.

 

[LilyMacBloom]

Hey Hazel: From the link below there is a photo of AG fixing/building a something or other. She is wearing her beautiful ring. IF you get time could you see if you can zoom in a post a pic of it??? I'm just curios what it looked like. Not that it means a darn thing, I'm just nosy!

From the spec article (link) we know that AG was enrolled in science at McMaster. Do we know what year she completed teacher's college?

I found this (Link) for one of the witnesses (at least I'm pretty sure it's her). Maybe AG met this witness at college.

Sorry for being vague, but I didn't know if I could use her initials since she hasn't been named in MSM.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

On the horse, not that I think this has anything to do with anything. I wonder why having a horse would be such a big secret? But having other pets, cat named Ming and prior dogs is not (a secret). Also, since there are no barns on the property AG would have had to board the horse. I wonder where?

Thanks for confirming about the horse! So, I'm wondering if AG had the horse boarded somewhere up in the Caledon/Mono/Orangeville area!! That might help connect the dots somehow!

-----------------------

ETA: I found a horse boarding map for Ontario:

LINK - http://www.horse.on.ca/membership/horse_facilities/hfc_facilities.html

 

[nicgumshoe]

i think all these women have to have been stalked, they all had habits with pets too.
AG's dogs, SV's cat and I believe SL had a dog. They were surrounded by trees and could have been easily watched for a long time. I wonder if the perp phoned them to get them to open their doors/? Also he must be carrying murder weapons around with him, how does he do that, how does one carry knives and bludgeons around, backpack?
But lots of people do that, maybe a sportbag.

Did we ever learn if the killer brought the knife, or if the knife was just grabbed at the scene (ie: a weapon of opportunity that happened to be there) ?
Or even if it was a knife? I thought I read "stabbed", which could be done with a number of things.

Knowing that would help us a lot.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

^^^^^ I think with AG we only heard "multiple stab wounds".:twocents:

 

[libyana]

Blood all over the place at SV's murder scene, I imagine a knife was involved. I can't imagine anyone scrabbling around in kitchen drawers for weapons. About SV's murder, the perp parked her car where it would be found easily the next day and also her body where it would be easily found. Her body was right next to a huge swamp, why did he not spend an extra 10 mins dragging the body in there where it might never have been found. Seems to me he wanted to sit back and enjoy it all but left just enough time to get away

 

[nicgumshoe]

Blood all over the place at SV's murder scene, I imagine a knife was involved. I can't imagine anyone scrabbling around in kitchen drawers for weapons. About SV's murder, the perp parked her car where it would be found easily the next day and also her body where it would be easily found. Her body was right next to a huge swamp, why did he not spend an extra 10 mins dragging the body in there where it might never have been found. Seems to me he wanted to sit back and enjoy it all but left just enough time to get away

But if the cases are not related I can see someone in the heat of the moment picking up a screwdriver, or other sharp object in AG's garage and going nuts. I could probably find 10 things in an instant in my garage that could be used to stab. And there would still be blood all over.

As an aside: I heard a woman in Switzerland once stabbed and killed her husband with a sharp piece of frozen cheese.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

^^^^^ I agree that AG's garage HAD to be blood covered just as SV's house was. The police wouldn't say it was the most horrific crime in over many years if the crime scene had been clean of blood!

And that's a discrepancy which I cannot get past in PK's account. He said it wasn't all that gruesome! (I paraphrased!). Is he all that used to seeing gruesome scenes?:twocents:

 

[libyana]

In spite of looking for purpose and meaning I still come back to the idea that these murders are related and i include KF as well. I see similarities, as far as we know in all of them.

 

[Hazel]

Hey Hazel: From the link below there is a photo of AG fixing/building a something or other. She is wearing her beautiful ring. IF you get time could you see if you can zoom in a post a pic of it??? I'm just curios what it looked like. Not that it means a darn thing, I'm just nosy!

Since I don't know how the ring looks like, while attempting to sharpen the image (# 3), I might have actually distorted it instead?
source for image: http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/595858--who-is-audrey-gleave

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