CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #8

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OK, thanks so much. And that does make sense......in a sick way!!

:twocents:
 
MsSherlock said:
That is eerily similar. Leads me back to thinking that a "relationship" may have changed. IMO, the cookie cutter Will AG signed back in 2007 was done outside of the watchful eye of a Lawyer or anyone else close to her (her close Vet friend) There were only 2 people plus AG who were guaranteed to know of it's existence- the witnesses.
Only one person to gain anything from AG's death, but surely a water proof story. I'd be curious to find out if JV is receiving any form of support from a kind relative? MOO
Click to expand...

"Very interesting my dear Watson"
 
No_Stone_Unturned said:
Agreed - the similarities here are quite amazing. I'm now of this mind:

1. The motive in AG's murder was indeed greed/money. (But I'm still thinking of that hot Camaro and any links to DM).

2. I suppose my biggest question is this - WHY was AG subjected to mutilation/the taking of trophies? Why so much violence that a seasoned detective was alarmed?

3. And where does this leave us with the SV and SL connections?

4. Also wondering/concerned that JV had perhaps all along been dependent on a 'lovely aunt' for finances.

5. I'm wondering if PK knows anything about JV and could he possibly assist LE in their investigations.

6. Lastly......let's take note that nothing (praise God) to this extent has taken place in Southern Ontario where the perp hasn't been caught since JV has been incarcerated. Coinkydinky?????????????

:twocents:
Click to expand...

That is something I have always wanted to know. When Hrab first looked at AG's body, did he know then that a trophy was taken because in MSM it only reports that AG's stretchy pants were on her body, but had been ripped at the waist.

How did Hrab know a trophy had been taken? PK did not mention that he saw anything as Hrab described and their opinions of the condition of the body differ and the scene itself.

The trophy may have been of a non-sexual nature.

This information has always been vague.

IMO
 
dotr said:
Tossing it out there as a hypothetical situation where a" strong " perp. dominates and manipulates a "weaker" one.
Click to expand...

IIRC, from the transcript of the conversation between JV and undercover LE, JV was very aggressive/demanding telling (the boy) paraphrasing to send it now!!! (the picture he wanted).

IMO
 
bbm.
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2215939-who-is-audrey-gleave/

He had seen it all, investigating homicide cases for 25 years, longer than any active Hamilton police officer.

Yet he spoke to the media with pronounced gravity about the murder of the 73-year-old woman on Indian Trail. He said it was the worst thing he had ever seen.

The attack had a “sexual component,” he added.

Homicide investigators typically speak to the media about an open case in the interest of public safety — he urged residents in the area to “be vigilant” since a killer was at large — and in the hopes of encouraging tips, and, on occasion, to spark a reaction from the perpetrator.

"Audrey Gleave’s body was found in her garage mid-morning on Thursday, Dec. 30. Hrab said they suspected a random attack by a stranger. Police did not reveal the exact time of death, if they were aware of it. The last time she was known to be alive was the early evening of Dec. 27.

The garage was attached to the house. Audrey’s two German shepherds had been inside, apparently unable to save her.

Hrab did not reveal additional pieces of the picture, details only the killer would know, what investigators call “hold-back evidence.”

He spoke of a vicious stabbing but did not talk about other weapons — at least one other had been used — or the nature of the “sexual component” (it had included a perverse act that went beyond a conventional assault; the killer had taken something from the victim as though making off with a souvenir.) "
 
No_Stone_Unturned said:
Oh, that's interesting. For some unknown reason, I've always pictured in my mind that JV FLEW to Florida. Can't explain why... But you are more than probably right about making the trip in a car.

Now - sports car? Truck? Fast? More eco-friendly? A little puddle-jumper? Something to attract teenage boys' eyes?

Lots to ponder here.

:drumroll:
Click to expand...

In any case, he drove a car to the gas station to meet the "young man" (officer).
If JV had started a new job and for the future wanted to live in FL, then he had certainly taken his car (Camaro or something like this would fit ;) ).
 
dotr said:
Tossing it out there as a hypothetical situation where a" strong " perp. dominates and manipulates a "weaker" one.
Click to expand...

... and dominating/manipulating in most cases is the older one and perhaps of major body type too.
 
roseofsharon said:
IIRC, from the transcript of the conversation between JV and undercover LE, JV was very aggressive/demanding telling (the boy) paraphrasing to send it now!!! (the picture he wanted).

IMO
Click to expand...

This has ever been the decisive factor for me to think, JV could be dangerous.
 
FromGermany said:
This has ever been the decisive factor for me to think, JV could be dangerous.
Click to expand...

Yes, I have to say, such insistence on the pic of body parts as a prerequisite to a meetup sure gets the hinky meter going.
 
FromGermany said:
In any case, he drove a car to the gas station to meet the "young man" (officer).
If JV had started a new job and for the future wanted to live in FL, then he had certainly taken his car (Camaro or something like this would fit ;) ).
Click to expand...


Great point FromGermany - we never did hear where AG's Camaro ended up.
 
A new scenario:

Perp 1, young, handsome, bi/gay without outing anywhere (parents, church, etc.), close to AG
Perp 2, older than 1, handsome, gay with outing (e.g. facebook), not so close but well known to AG per family gathering
Perp 1 marries at a young age to cover his sexual orientation
Perp 1 and 2 are known to each other and secretly are very close
Aunt of perp 2 knows the truth
Aunt of perp 2 knows also perp 1
AG learns of the pair (perp 1+2) after attending the wedding of perp 1
AG finds it wrong and dishonest and expresses it to perp1/perp2/both

Perp 1 and/or perp 2 get fear of AG knowing too much; she could destroy the structure of lies

What about this?
 
Online publication: Ontario Ministry of Government Services

http://www.gov.on.ca/en/information_bundle/land_registration/STEL01_130081.html

Land Reg In Ontario
Central Production and Verification Services Branch

The Central Production and Verification Services Branch of ServiceOntario manages and operates 54 Land Registry Offices throughout Ontario which register, store and manage documents such as deeds, mortgages and plans of survey.....Snip>........All registered and deposited records are available to the public (for a fee) to search title or obtain information about the ownership of real property.

Land Registry Office Locations

http://www.gov.on.ca/en/information_bundle/land_registration/content/STEL02_165696

Wentworth No. 62, Hamilton ON L8P 4Y7 (Tel, Fax, address given)

Brant No. 2, Court House, Brantford ON N3T 2L9 (Tel, Fax, address given)
 
FromGermany said:
A new scenario:

Perp 1, young, handsome, bi/gay without outing anywhere (parents, church, etc.), close to AG
Perp 2, older than 1, handsome, gay with outing (e.g. facebook), not so close but well known to AG per family gathering
Perp 1 marries at a young age to cover his sexual orientation
Perp 1 and 2 are known to each other and secretly are very close
Aunt of perp 2 knows the truth
Aunt of perp 2 knows also perp 1
AG learns of the pair (perp 1+2) after attending the wedding of perp 1
AG finds it wrong and dishonest and expresses it to perp1/perp2/both

Perp 1 and/or perp 2 get fear of AG knowing too much; she could destroy the structure of lies

What about this?
Click to expand...


:applause: Do you have anyone in mind as being "PERP 1"????????????????? (No need to reply. I think we all know the answer!!)

:cake4u:
 
dotr said:
bbm.
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2215939-who-is-audrey-gleave/

He had seen it all, investigating homicide cases for 25 years, longer than any active Hamilton police officer.

Yet he spoke to the media with pronounced gravity about the murder of the 73-year-old woman on Indian Trail. He said it was the worst thing he had ever seen.

The attack had a “sexual component,” he added.

Homicide investigators typically speak to the media about an open case in the interest of public safety — he urged residents in the area to “be vigilant” since a killer was at large — and in the hopes of encouraging tips, and, on occasion, to spark a reaction from the perpetrator.

"Audrey Gleave’s body was found in her garage mid-morning on Thursday, Dec. 30. Hrab said they suspected a random attack by a stranger. Police did not reveal the exact time of death, if they were aware of it. The last time she was known to be alive was the early evening of Dec. 27.

The garage was attached to the house. Audrey’s two German shepherds had been inside, apparently unable to save her.

Hrab did not reveal additional pieces of the picture, details only the killer would know, what investigators call “hold-back evidence.”

He spoke of a vicious stabbing but did not talk about other weapons — at least one other had been used — or the nature of the “sexual component” (it had included a perverse act that went beyond a conventional assault; the killer had taken something from the victim as though making off with a souvenir.) "
Click to expand...

Thanks for finding this Dotr!

It is quite interesting how a seasoned detective describes what he saw, as the worst thing he has ever seen, but yet PK, AG's close friend, iirc, said he didn't really think it looked that bad? (paraphrase) Huh??

Quite a stretch there.

PK sat on his vehicle in AG's driveway to notify LE. He was not scared (imo).

Just imo, but if I ever came across a scene, such as what Hrab described, I would run for the hills first and then call the authorities.

Everyone reacts differently, but my hands would have been shaking so badly, I don't know if I would have been able to press the buttons on a cell phone!

Also, have never read any msm that PK tried to get help from a neighbour, when he first found AG, not to say he didn't try or did, but have not read this anywhere on msm.

Wish we could listen to the 911 call.

IMO as always:seeya:
 
Was pondering something in the Bosma case wrt the early statements (probably unnamed source) that people were relating Tim's case to the movie Fargo, when it was supposedly more along the lines of "The Following". That started something in my head here about the tv series "Amazing Race". When you google that together with "Amazing Grace", it shows that one of the episodes that aired in December 2009 was called "Amazing Grace".
 
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