CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #8

[roseofsharon]

Possible motive: Person known to AG wanted to steal Camaro car parts and AG caught him/her in her garage. AG may have left her garage door open too long or forgot to close it.

Someone known to AG, asked to come over and look at her Camaro, as they were thinking of buying one.

Still thinking young, close and very familiar with AG's dogs.

IMO

 

[roseofsharon]

And F. son in article someone posted last few days says they corresponded by email only once or twice a year (!).

Now it seems to me that was a bit obscured by the Mom if the son is accurate.

If so that is indeed remarkable timing. I think the Mom and some of the Spec articles made it seem they corresponded more often (?).

I also found it a little odd, why a grown son, would know details about who emailed his mother and how many times and when. I would think email is as personal as regular mail.

IIRC, AG asked LF for her email address only after the movie was made on Indian Trail in 2007, so is F son saying then, at the most 6 times?

I wonder if LE took LF's computer to verify AG's IP address sending the Amazing Grace email.

Things we're never going to know :banghead:

imo

 

[deputydawg2]

You folks seen this?

http://canada.defipedia.org/ca9/ca/canada/brantford/929605/stag-and-doe-friday-may-25-2012-8pm-1am/

A bit mercenary.....maybe that's just my funny way of seeing things...

ht: harness-mate

dd2

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Back to the notion of young and close people coming home for the Christmas holidays. I wonder if all of the F sons were at home during the holiday season.

I really hope LE have looked closely at ALL computers in the F household. Too many inconsistencies about the number of e-mails between the mother and AG.

When PK found the body and a great number of cop cars arrived, did the F family members come over to try to see what had happened? Did PK speak with any of the F family at that time? It's only human nature to look at a neighbour's house when it's surrounded by cops, isn't it? Did anyone in the F family "suggest" that DLS was a bit odd and he likely did something bad?

:twocents:

 

[deputydawg2]

Let's go over the story of the neighbor's dogs barking on 12/27/10 about 2:00 a.m.. Is that the whole story? Part of the story? A scripted version of the story?

It appears that we are to believe that AG's dogs just lay quietly in their kennel while AG was being slaughtered. No way do I believe that. I know from experience that dogs sense the vibes of their person. Their unique hearing ability is well known. They knew what was going on in that garage. Did Audrey call out to them in terror as she was being attacked? If so, you can bet there was a real mess in that kennel when the dogs were found, not as PK stated. Shepherds are powerful; their jaws, teeth and claws can do a lot of damage to just about anything - be it wire or wood.

imo, it was probably AG's dogs that did the barking - they may have set off the neighbor's dogs. That may or may not have happened on the date and time that we have been told.

http://www.epilepsy.com/articles/ar_1084289240

".... Esherick believes the most stressful event for a seizure dog is to be separated from their human companion. “The seizure dog takes its job very seriously, and when they are separated from their person they are unable to do their job, which causes a tremendous amount of anxiety.” ....

Too much of the entire story of AG's murder seems to me to have been scripted to direct our thinking away from what really happened and toward an erroneous, desired conclusion.

Who, or what group, composed that script, I don't know. The purpose, imo, was to obtain AG's estate and property.

This is just my thinking and opinions at this point in time.

dd2

 

[Woodland]

That's impressive dd2 - imo you are drilling down on something very important.

PK has posted here that he was not taken through AG's home after reporting finding her body - that goes with NSU's recent 101 crime scene post - don't take anyone through the crime scene(s) as investigators have no idea who is a possible perp and who is not.

PK stated (without the back up post) that it did not seem to him that the dogs were unattended to for any great length of time (paraphrasing). Ie no droppings visable for a number of days. PK was answering a direct question.

I agree dd2 - the dogs left a message for LE in one way or another. Just not definitive - yet.

Imo, for the most part this will be a circumstantial case if and when it ever goes to court, unless DNA from the crime scene does exist. If more than one person is involved, it will be hard to prove their role.

 

[deputydawg2]

That's impressive dd2 - imo you are drilling down on something very important.

PK has posted here that he was not taken through AG's home after reporting finding her body - that goes with NSU's recent 101 crime scene post - don't take anyone through the crime scene(s) as investigators have no idea who is a possible perp and who is not.

PK stated (without the back up post) that it did not seem to him that the dogs were unattended to for any great length of time (paraphrasing). Ie no droppings visable for a number of days. PK was answering a direct question.

I agree dd2 - the dogs left a message for LE in one way or another. Just not definitive - yet.

Imo, for the most part this will be a circumstantial case if and when it ever goes to court, unless DNA from the crime scene does exist. If more than one person is involved, it will be hard to prove their role.

Thank you, Woodland. That drilling goes deeper and more far-reaching than I can go into here. I've had a lot of help in that.... :seeya:

Seems reasonable to me that DNA does exist, but testing may not have gone beyond the basic typing. Some DNA appears to be the same but with more extensive testing shows that of a different person, that of siblings for example.

For several reasons, I fear you are right in your conclusion.

 

[roseofsharon]

Speaking of dogs, do they not also bark when their owners have been away and return home, even if it is only a matter of minutes? :twocents:

Someone other than AG returning to their home, i.e. dogs kenneled outside on Indian Trail would only need to hear one dog barking to start a chain reaction.

Now, how many neighbours own dogs on Indian Trail?

All IMO.

 

[deputydawg2]

Speaking of dogs, do they not also bark when their owners have been away and return home, even if it is only a matter of minutes? :twocents:

Someone other than AG returning to their home, i.e. dogs kenneled outside on Indian Trail would only need to hear one dog barking to start a chain reaction.

Now, how many neighbours own dogs on Indian Trail?

All IMO.

Roseofsharon, I feel sure that many of us here could tell lots of stories confirming what you say. I've got a million of 'em!

On my block I'd figure at least 50% of the homes have dogs, some as many as four. When one starts barking across the alley behind me it sounds like each house owns a kennel of them.

Can't say about dog-owners on Indian Trail.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Speaking of dogs, do they not also bark when their owners have been away and return home, even if it is only a matter of minutes? :twocents:

Someone other than AG returning to their home, i.e. dogs kenneled outside on Indian Trail would only need to hear one dog barking to start a chain reaction.

Now, how many neighbours own dogs on Indian Trail?

All IMO.

Could it have been, a neighbour arrived back at home in the "Labrador-household", perhaps in a special mental state? In this case, the Labrador's barking would probably have been excited too, but only one person in the house was able to understand the reason of barking. :wolf2:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from dotr's link:

F said there was an e-mail about a month before her death in which Gleave described not wanting to go outside at night without her two big German shepherds.


If this is true, was AG trying to alert F mom about someone in F mom's own household? And if it isn't true that AG sent the e-mail about being afraid, was F mom trying to cover for someone she had suspicions about?

:twocents:

 

[Sillybilly]

Quoted from dotr's link:

F said there was an e-mail about a month before her death in which Gleave described not wanting to go outside at night without her two big German shepherds.


If this is true, was AG trying to alert F mom about someone in F mom's own household? And if it isn't true that AG sent the e-mail about being afraid, was F mom trying to cover for someone she had suspicions about?

:twocents:

Audrey only communicated occasionally with LF yet we have 2 emails in a month?? That one email would have been around the time Audrey's malbox was vandalized. Strange that she would communicate her fear of going outside at night to someone she only emailed occasionally, yet she didn't seem to convey that same fear to her closer friends LV or PK in person or by email. I wonder if Audrey's communication with her ex-BIL about being raped and murdered in her own home was expressed by phone, letter, or email.

Maybe Audrey's computer was hacked and emails were being sent from someone other than Audrey and she didn't have any knowledge of them. Both communications seem to be setting the stage for ominous happenings in the future.

 

[SideKick]

Could it have been, a neighbour arrived back at home in the "Labrador-household", perhaps in a special mental state? In this case, the Labrador's barking would probably have been excited too, but only one person in the house was able to understand the reason of barking. :wolf2:

Oh! :woot:
Now, that makes sense doesn't it? Do we know how far apart the F's are to A's house? Is it across the road and up a bit?

If A's computer was used in her house (not hacked) there would be finger prints on the key board. Unless the person used synthetic gloves.

 

[SideKick]

PK stated (without the back up post) that it did not seem to him that the dogs were unattended to for any great length of time (paraphrasing). Ie no droppings visable for a number of days. PK was answering a direct question.

I agree dd2 - the dogs left a message for LE in one way or another. Just not definitive - yet.

Imo, for the most part this will be a circumstantial case if and when it ever goes to court, unless DNA from the crime scene does exist. If more than one person is involved, it will be hard to prove their role.

My first thought about the doggie droppings and lack thereof, takes me right to PK. He somewhat knew the dogs, how well did the dogs take to him? Not sure...Was he cleaning up as the days past?

Without food, there maybe less droppings however, all in all, it wouldn't be spotless! These are 2 big German Shepards.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

In one of the newspapers (The Spec? The Star?) didn't D & LF say something like - (paraphrasing) We knew she was lonely but it's too bad she died alone.

And these same people called AG a recluse & hermit. They seem to know a great deal about someone who only waved at them occasionally!

Something is off here.

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from Sidekick:

My first thought about the doggie droppings and lack thereof, takes me right to PK. He somewhat knew the dogs, how well did the dogs take to him? Not sure...Was he cleaning up as the days past?



Someone must have been doing something for/with the dogs.

 

[SideKick]

In one of the newspapers (The Spec? The Star?) didn't D & LF say something like - (paraphrasing) We knew she was lonely but it's too bad she died alone.

And these same people called AG a recluse & hermit. They seem to know a great deal about someone who only waved at them occasionally!

Something is off here.

:twocents:

Yup!
I know it's been discussed about Audrey being a 'hermit'. For Goodness Sakes, that is really a s t r e t c h if you ask me. First of all, yes, A lived alone. Does that make her a hermit? Secondly, she was pretty active (who is to judge on how active someone should be if they live alone), she was involved in her life, saw people now and then, got a kick out of driving her dream vehicle, she was careful, wise and knowledgeable, but this does not equal a hermit. I think our society should think before they speak in regards to describing neighbours. Nosey neighbours.

One thing A was not, was a cruel, gossipy, betrayal of friendship type of woman and this makes me very upset (I' am not in tears, but it bothers me) that she was described as this hermit. She went from a very successful teacher/mentor, was intelligent enough and her insight towards this world spoke volumes to me. I wish I had known this gal.

I can't fathom WHO the heck would harm her. And why. Any why so brutally. It really doesn't make sense. Can we focus on how someone could possibly get so angry with her and then end her life so unjustifiably?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hermit

Hey you! If you are reading here, we're gonna getcha! Hope you sleep well at night!

 

[roseofsharon]

Could it have been, a neighbour arrived back at home in the "Labrador-household", perhaps in a special mental state? In this case, the Labrador's barking would probably have been excited too, but only one person in the house was able to understand the reason of barking. :wolf2:

FromGermany ... you're reading my mail :blushing::seeya::blushing:

 

[roseofsharon]

Yup!
I know it's been discussed about Audrey being a 'hermit'. For Goodness Sakes, that is really a s t r e t c h if you ask me. First of all, yes, A lived alone. Does that make her a hermit? Secondly, she was pretty active (who is to judge on how active someone should be if they live alone), she was involved in her life, saw people now and then, got a kick out of driving her dream vehicle, she was careful, wise and knowledgeable, but this does not equal a hermit. I think our society should think before they speak in regards to describing neighbours. Nosey neighbours.

One thing A was not, was a cruel, gossipy, betrayal of friendship type of woman and this makes me very upset (I' am not in tears, but it bothers me) that she was described as this hermit. She went from a very successful teacher/mentor, was intelligent enough and her insight towards this world spoke volumes to me. I wish I had known this gal.

I can't fathom WHO the heck would harm her. And why. Any why so brutally. It really doesn't make sense. Can we focus on how someone could possibly get so angry with her and then end her life so unjustifiably?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hermit

Hey you! If you are reading here, we're gonna getcha! Hope you sleep well at night!

One or two words come to mind ... alcohol and drugs, but I'm going to say alcohol and plenty of it, not just because it was between Christmas and New Years. I think the perp(s) were drinkers.

To put it delicately, the anger may have been brought on from not being able to carry out the sexual assault the way the perp had planned ... due to too much alcohol and AG's fighting for her life.

I also think whomever did this, either thought AG would be sleeping or wasn't home, may have seen the garage door up and wanted to be nosy, especially interested in her Camaro. We all have momentary lapse in memory, as we age. AG may have forgotten to close her garage door.

I have no knowledge of LE's investigation on Indian Trail, but from what I have read, it was not extensive.

IMO

 

[roseofsharon]

Could AG's injuries and/or the sexual assault have been carried out post-mortem?

I'm wondering if the beating took place due to the perp getting caught by AG in her garage and then wondering if the sexual assault was an afterthought after she was murdered and again, due to intoxication.

imo