CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #9

[Deleted member 102539]

Random speculation.
Could more than 1 person be responsible for, or know the culprit responsible for Audrey's murder? I think: yes, could be.

Wonder what is meant by " cryptic " letter, sounds a little bit threatening, imo. I think, the author did not dare to utter direct accusations but was perhaps a little vague in its intimations.

Still wonder if someone " set up " PK? PK would have expressed the thoughts himself and he didn't one single time. So I think: rather not a "set up".

What do many consider more valuable than cash? Imo, information, and Audrey was a veritable mint of information..
In an earlier post, it was asked if AG had integrity, considering she went to the trouble of demanding a 100% mark in her course instead of the 99% she received.
Thinking that Audrey would have a great deal of academic integrity.Perhaps, obstinately and infuriatingly so, imo. fwiw.
Do you mean, AG's academic knowledge should be extracted somehow by threat of violence? But "overkill" for not giving information to whomever, is it conceivable?

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5809219-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/
rbbm.
" As months and years go by people move on, are less inclined to come forward with information.

Her partner on the case, Det. Joe Stewart, chooses his words cautiously but says the murder remains something of a riddle. They have theories, he says, but have to remain objective and not have tunnel vision on one suspect.

The bar they must meet, proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, is a high one, he says.

"There are people of interest who deserve further investigation."

What do they need to break the case?

"People may know things," he says.

Abrams is only a shade more direct.

"Everyone we have talked to has been co-operative but there's a difference between being co-operative and telling the truth," she says.
Of whom people are perhaps afraid to give information?? Which families (of the perp/s) must perhaps be taken into consideration and why?

Detectives continue working the case and receive occasional tips from the public.

They followed-up on a Crime Stoppers tip recently, and also on an anonymous and cryptic letter mailed to a Hamilton Spectator reporter that pointed the finger at two alleged suspects. Neither tip panned out."
I think, it's Jon Wells (Spec reporter) and he wrote a comprehensive article on 22.8.15.: http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5809219-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/ There aren't new clues but only more details of AG's two friends .....

Dotr, my remarks in red.

 

[shadowraiths]

Since PK (aka kinsmapj) is a verified insider to this case, and esp since he is the individual who found Ms. Gleaves, I am posting these links for reference, and to save people time having to dig through the case archives, to read what he had to say.

1. 08-03-2011, 03:27 PM
   
2. 08-03-2011, 11:53 PM
   
3. 08-04-2011, 12:46 PM
   
4. 08-04-2011, 12:55 PM
   
5. 08-04-2011, 01:50 PM
   
6. 08-04-2011, 02:31 PM
   
7. 08-04-2011, 03:05 PM
   
8. 08-04-2011, 04:02 PM
   
9. 08-04-2011, 04:56 PM
   
10. 08-04-2011, 06:10 PM
    
11. 08-06-2011, 12:59 PM <<= link to youtube vid
    
12. 08-06-2011, 04:47 PM <<= garage door/dogs
    
13. 08-10-2011, 07:59 PM <<= relationship
    
14. 08-10-2011, 09:20 PM <<= estate settlement
    
15. 09-21-2011, 10:12 PM <<= crime scene, etc
    
16. 09-28-2011, 09:42 PM <<= faq
    
17. 01-11-2013, 05:44 PM <<= cake recipe
    
18. 01-12-2013, 02:40 PM <<= reposted cake recipe

 

[colette]

I believe, it may be possible for her to have "taken" the missing part. I don't understand at all how someone would tell this at the memorial of the (murdered!) friend who had "stolen". At least it was something like a very small theft/a mini violation of the law and that's not funny. Should the people shake their heads about AG, was it the intention? Not really nice, IMO.

The story about the mailbox was told to the newspaper months later, NOT at Audrey's memorial. The story he told at the memorial was about how they planted flowers and she hugged him.

"Months later, Phil talked to a Hamilton Spectator writer about his relationship with Audrey. He told the story of her new mailbox. About a month before she died, vandals had busted up her old one, he said. She &#8220;hated the guts&#8221; of whoever did it. She bought a new mailbox, and when she discovered that a part was missing, she recruited Phil to drive with her to the hardware store."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2111178-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The story about the mailbox was told to the newspaper months later, NOT at Audrey's memorial. The story he told at the memorial was about how they planted flowers and she hugged him.

"Months later, Phil talked to a Hamilton Spectator writer about his relationship with Audrey. He told the story of her new mailbox. About a month before she died, vandals had busted up her old one, he said. She &#8220;hated the guts&#8221; of whoever did it. She bought a new mailbox, and when she discovered that a part was missing, she recruited Phil to drive with her to the hardware store."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2111178-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/

Thank you! I didn't know - thought, it had been at the memorial.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

08-11-2011, 01:59 AM #271
kinsmapj kinsmapj is offline
Verified Insider - Audrey Gleave case

I believe I've mentioned before that in her last year, AG and I talked a few times about what would happen after she was gone.

I would like to know what Audrey was thinking about the time, she would have been gone. Her dogs? Her home? Her property? Her money? Any commitments? Her grave - where - which form? Close friends except PK (ie witnesses to her LW)? Family (although allegly non-existent)? Ex-husband, ex-BIL? Private research findings, which she would leave behind?
To her ex-BIL she had spoken about her premonition to be raped and murdered when alone in her home. Had Audrey also spoken to PK of that premonition in her last year? Had she warned him to be attentive, if exactly that would happen to her?
Had she given PK a hint to who the perp may be and why he would do that?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

08-11-2011, 03:20 AM #273
kinsmapj kinsmapj is offline
Verified Insider - Audrey Gleave case

When she was sick, AG didn't go ANYWHERE. She would stay bundled up and hardly get out of bed and in fact it was a huge pet peeve of hers when people would go out and spread germs when they were sick. Incidentally that was another of her intense interests.... Finding the source of a particular bug.

Email Audrey:

She wrote that she had not been feeling well lately, but would attend her Wednesday coffee at Williams "come hell or high water." She signed her email "Baryon," a nickname she had coined, after the subatomic particle.

That doesn't fit at all. Why?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

08-04-2011, 06:46 PM #210
kinsmapj kinsmapj is offline
Verified Insider - Audrey Gleave case

With respect to whether I have a personal opinion regarding who could have done this horrible thing.... I feel at a complete loss. I find it highly unlikely that DLS is responsible and the police were simply unable to hold him because the direction of the case has shifted so drastically. The detectives are now putting lots of pressure on those of us who knew AG well (and honestly, I've always thought it likely that AG either knew or expected a visit from her attacker).

For me "shifted so drastically" means something other than "haven't found his DNA" ...

 

[dotr]

08-11-2011, 03:20 AM #273
kinsmapj kinsmapj is offline
Verified Insider - Audrey Gleave case




Email Audrey:


That doesn't fit at all. Why?

Good point FromGermany!
Still wonder if all the talk about " viruses" and " secondary infection " was more about computer viruses than a human illness, imo.

 

[colette]

FromGermany's post:
kinsmapj:
"When she was sick, AG didn't go ANYWHERE. She would stay bundled up and hardly get out of bed and in fact it was a huge pet peeve of hers when people would go out and spread germs when they were sick. Incidentally that was another of her intense interests.... Finding the source of a particular bug."

Email Audrey:
She wrote that she had not been feeling well lately, but would attend her Wednesday coffee at Williams "come hell or high water." She signed her email "Baryon," a nickname she had coined, after the subatomic particle.


FromGermany says: "That doesn't fit at all. Why?"


In a way it does fit. I just think that was her personality. She probably did want to find out who gave her some illness, try to track it down in her mind. Then she would stay at home, keeping her illness quarantined. But then I think at the point of the email she was tired of being sick and sort of willed herself to be well. If she was well she could go to the coffee group on Wednesday and would not be contagious.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

FromGermany's post:
kinsmapj:
"When she was sick, AG didn't go ANYWHERE. She would stay bundled up and hardly get out of bed and in fact it was a huge pet peeve of hers when people would go out and spread germs when they were sick. Incidentally that was another of her intense interests.... Finding the source of a particular bug."

Email Audrey:
She wrote that she had not been feeling well lately, but would attend her Wednesday coffee at Williams "come hell or high water." She signed her email "Baryon," a nickname she had coined, after the subatomic particle.


FromGermany says: "That doesn't fit at all. Why?"


In a way it does fit. I just think that was her personality. She probably did want to find out who gave her some illness, try to track it down in her mind. Then she would stay at home, keeping her illness quarantined. But then I think at the point of the email she was tired of being sick and sort of willed herself to be well. If she was well she could go to the coffee group on Wednesday and would not be contagious.

I believe, what PK is saying. If Audrey wrote in her email on Monday about "secondary infection" and so on, nevertheless wanted to meet her coffee collegues on Wednesday - that seems a bit odd to me re her normal behavior during illness.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Good point FromGermany!
Still wonder if all the talk about " viruses" and " secondary infection " was more about computer viruses than a human illness, imo.

bbm = Good idea, dotr! I didn't think of that until now. :thinking:

 

[Woodland]

Regarding a set up, I wonder if the killer would have been cold blooded enough to stage an "overkill murder". Maybe someone can fake a "sexual motive", but can someone also do vicious stabbing and causing severe trauma - only to fake the murder to get on a misleading profile?

Imo - yes.

 

[Woodland]

The story about the mailbox was told to the newspaper months later, NOT at Audrey's memorial. The story he told at the memorial was about how they planted flowers and she hugged him.

"Months later, Phil talked to a Hamilton Spectator writer about his relationship with Audrey. He told the story of her new mailbox. About a month before she died, vandals had busted up her old one, he said. She “hated the guts” of whoever did it. She bought a new mailbox, and when she discovered that a part was missing, she recruited Phil to drive with her to the hardware store."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2111178-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/

BBM - will check that as fact - that is not my recollection. I recall giving a poor opinion of that story being told at the memorial.

 

[Woodland]

FromGermany's post:
kinsmapj:
"When she was sick, AG didn't go ANYWHERE. She would stay bundled up and hardly get out of bed and in fact it was a huge pet peeve of hers when people would go out and spread germs when they were sick. Incidentally that was another of her intense interests.... Finding the source of a particular bug."

Email Audrey:
She wrote that she had not been feeling well lately, but would attend her Wednesday coffee at Williams "come hell or high water." She signed her email "Baryon," a nickname she had coined, after the subatomic particle.


FromGermany says: "That doesn't fit at all. Why?"


In a way it does fit. I just think that was her personality. She probably did want to find out who gave her some illness, try to track it down in her mind. Then she would stay at home, keeping her illness quarantined. But then I think at the point of the email she was tired of being sick and sort of willed herself to be well. If she was well she could go to the coffee group on Wednesday and would not be contagious.

BBM

AG was killed within hours of this e-mail being sent. No further activity according to LE.

 

[dotr]

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2111178-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/

" Two people spoke at the service. One was Phil Kinsman. His voice broke as he spoke:

&#8220;I know private is a word that has often been used to describe Audrey, but I'm amazed at how many people she affected in her life. I want to share one small story: I remember the first time Audrey ever hugged me. Understand, she's a private person, but even more so with physical affection.

&#8220; I remember I was over at her house, we had spent the entire day planting flowers; she loved flowers. She shared with me all the research she had done.

&#8220; At the end of day, we were both exhausted and a bit frustrated and she said to me point blank, &#8216;Well, did you learn something today or not?' And I said of course I did. The way she left us is tragic, but in these situations of chaos, it's instinctive to ask why, to look for answers. I prefer to just be so thankful she left us with a lesson, that our time is so short. Every moment we can spend together in love, and cherish together, (it's) so important to do that.&#8221;

Months later, Phil talked to a Hamilton Spectator writer about his relationship with Audrey. He told the story of her new mailbox. About a month before she died, vandals had busted up her old one, he said. She &#8220;hated the guts&#8221; of whoever did it. She bought a new mailbox, and when she discovered that a part was missing, she recruited Phil to drive with her to the hardware store.

Audrey found the spare part on a shelf and stuffed it inside her big parka. She had Phil run interference, make sure no one was watching, and they scurried out the door. All this, even though she could have simply asked for the part at the counter.

&#8220;She was so excited, it was her big night,&#8221; Phil said. &#8220;It was awesome.&#8221;

 

[whiterhino]

^Strange to make such a point of mentioning how private AG was & then later on tell that kind of story, especially knowing it would be published for all to see. Also imo, interesting to make a point of mentioning being given a hug from such a private person who was not in the habit of displaying physical affection. Almost like making it known that this person had the ability to cross AGs' boundaries, the ability to make AG cross her own boundaries & was the exception to the rule. Imo.

Wonder what it was about the gardening that caused AG & PK to be frustrated that day?

Regarding the profile changing, staged s.assault & overkill, perhaps the overkill was the sexual "component"? Just wondering if the torn pants were the only indication of staged s.a? Also wondering how investigators can tell the difference between clothing that was torn in an attempt to stage a scene versus clothing torn during a struggle? Or say, torn bc the perp considered s.a but stopped bc the overkill was sufficient? Lots of wondering...

 

[dotr]

^Strange to make such a point of mentioning how private AG was & then later on tell that kind of story, especially knowing it would be published for all to see. Also imo, interesting to make a point of mentioning being given a hug from such a private person who was not in the habit of displaying physical affection. Almost like making it known that this person had the ability to cross AGs' boundaries, the ability to make AG cross her own boundaries & was the exception to the rule. Imo.

Wonder what it was about the gardening that caused AG & PK to be frustrated that day?

Regarding the profile changing, staged s.assault & overkill, perhaps the overkill was the sexual "component"? Just wondering if the torn pants were the only indication of staged s.a? Also wondering how investigators can tell the difference between clothing that was torn in an attempt to stage a scene versus clothing torn during a struggle? Or say, torn bc the perp considered s.a but stopped bc the overkill was sufficient? Lots of wondering...

One could see why the crime may have been seen as sexually motivated because of the " perverse trophy " taken, reminds me of Audrey's competitive side in golf ect. and playing bridge.
Did she win a trophy to somebody's great chagrin?

Ironic that the police crime tape happened to be wrapped across her new mailbox.
imo, speculation.


rbbm.
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2215939-who-is-audrey-gleave/
" Hrab did not reveal additional pieces of the picture, details only the killer would know, what investigators call &#8220;hold-back evidence.&#8221;

He spoke of a vicious stabbing but did not talk about other weapons &#8212; at least one other had been used &#8212; or the nature of the &#8220;sexual component&#8221; (it had included a perverse act that went beyond a conventional assault; the killer had taken something from the victim as though making off with a souvenir.)

Hrab stood in a topcoat against a cold wind, addressing reporters on Indian Trail, yellow crime scene tape hanging from Audrey Gleave&#8217;s new mailbox."

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I prefer to just be so thankful she left us with a lesson, that our time is so short.

IMO
73 years isn't that short, but noone deserves to die like Audrey!
It doesn't take a vicious bloody murder with stabbing/blunt force trauma/maybe sexual assault, to "give us a lesson".
(It is not as being in the garden, plant flowers and learn about irrigating and sun-effect and pests.)
Because of Audrey's violent death "we" are able now to appreciate every day and enjoy??

Sorry, I don't understand such train of thought - but I don't have to.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The second most common type of staging is when the perpetrator attempts to redirect the investigation by making the crime appear to be a sex-related homicide.

http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/PIMag0707.htm


Staging occurs when someone purposely alters the crime scene prior to the arrival of the police. The offender who usually had some type of relationship with the victim does this. The second reasoning for staging is to protect the victim of the victim&#8217;s family. This type of staging usually occurs in the case of rape-murder crimes or autoerotic fatalities. - See more at: http://twistedminds.creativescapism...orders/profiling/4areas/#sthash.PRcqTU37.dpuf

 

[dotr]

IMO
73 years isn't that short, but noone deserves to die like Audrey!
It doesn't take a vicious bloody murder with stabbing/blunt force trauma/maybe sexual assault, to "give us a lesson".
(It is not as being in the garden, plant flowers and learn about irrigating and sun-effect and pests.)
Because of Audrey's violent death "we" are able now to appreciate every day and enjoy??

Sorry, I don't understand such train of thought - but I don't have to.

Rbbm.
Almost as though Audrey was " sacrificed " for our redemption, imo, speculation.