CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #9

[2soccermom]

sorry --
link for the live coverage of the Bosma trial is http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...-by-dellen-millard-defence-suggests-1.3523124

 

[2soccermom]

More: testimony today in the TB case indicates that DM & friends referred to vehicle thefts as "missions" and "capers"; one man testified that he was asked (for pay) to be involved as a lookout in two vehicle thefts at night; one text message asked what DM would be "thieving" this time....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...-by-dellen-millard-defence-suggests-1.3523124

It strikes me now it could be especially significant that Audrey was murdered in her garage. What if they expected an older woman to be sleeping soundly at night -- not suspecting she was a night owl? Could she have surprised someone by heading to the garage for a smoke in the wee hours? Or might she have heard something and gone to investigate, not suspecting it could be a break-in?
Could her murder have been the result of these low-life types panicking in what was supposed to be a robbery? Thus the "staged" scene as a cover-up?
Anyway --
I know this is all speculation. But much less preposterous now than I would have considered prior to the TB case. Especially given testimony about DM and friends casing the opportunities --
(and neighbours talking about a man on a bike with a knapsack seen in Audrey's very rural area in relation to her case. And at the risk of sounding wholly paranoid now, I'm suddenly wondering what kind of vehicle Shelly Loder drove, or what expensive items might have been visible outside her studio -- since DM was also stealing things like maple trees if the opportunity arose -- and there was a man seen walking in Loder's rural area around the time as well). Ummmmm.....

 

[Deleted member 102539]

More: testimony today in the TB case indicates that DM & friends referred to vehicle thefts as "missions" and "capers"; one man testified that he was asked (for pay) to be involved as a lookout in two vehicle thefts at night; one text message asked what DM would be "thieving" this time....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...-by-dellen-millard-defence-suggests-1.3523124

It strikes me now it could be especially significant that Audrey was murdered in her garage. What if they expected an older woman to be sleeping soundly at night -- not suspecting she was a night owl? Could she have surprised someone by heading to the garage for a smoke in the wee hours? Or might she have heard something and gone to investigate, not suspecting it could be a break-in?
Could her murder have been the result of these low-life types panicking in what was supposed to be a robbery? Thus the "staged" scene as a cover-up?
Anyway --
I know this is all speculation. But much less preposterous now than I would have considered prior to the TB case. Especially given testimony about DM and friends casing the opportunities --
(and neighbours talking about a man on a bike with a knapsack seen in Audrey's very rural area in relation to her case. And at the risk of sounding wholly paranoid now, I'm suddenly wondering what kind of vehicle Shelly Loder drove, or what expensive items might have been visible outside her studio -- since DM was also stealing things like maple trees if the opportunity arose -- and there was a man seen walking in Loder's rural area around the time as well). Ummmmm.....

On a pic (from 2011) I recently searched/found re Bosma case I've seen a pair of work boots, unfortunately not showing the sole. My alarm bells were ringing rather loudly .... (thinking of Sonia/Audrey/Shelley).

 

[dotr]

The vicious killer of this 80 year old woman may well still be on the loose, it was a horribly brutal crime which also involved a sexual assault.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...dered-s-assaulted-robbed-midtown-Toronto-1994
Margaret McDonald, 80, brutally murdered, s assaulted, robbed, midtown Toronto, 1994

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...s-to-steal-vehicles-friend-tells-murder-trial

In 2012, Hagerman was recruited into Millard’s “missions,” that were openly called “thieving.”

“Need a lookout on a walkie-talkie tonight. 10 p.m. — 3 a.m.,” reads a text from Millard to Hagerman on Oct. 2. “$50 or credit towards future grabs. Interested?”

Hagerman replied he would “be able and willing to help at around 1. Where is this going down?”

“Waterloo,” replied Millard.

“What are we going to be thieving?” Hagerman asked.

“Lawnmowers,” texted Millard. “2 ride ones.”


Not only had Audrey a nice shiny Camaro but she owned 2010 also a riding lawnmower. :thinking:

-.-.-.-.-.-.-

The last witness (TB case) told of his grandmother and his connection via her to the Millards. I think, somewhere there may be a grandmother who had connections to Audrey and so had her male? grandchild indirectly too.

Somewhat of a connection also could be Audrey's glorius property which caught the eye of a real estate agent and his/her "rich client" who is/was in illegal things. AG's murder didn't help purchasing the property of course but it may have been the first interest, second: rural area, third: elderly single, fourth: Camaro/lawnmower/theft.

 

[2soccermom]

At this link, you can see video played at the TB trial of two right-hand men for DM -- SS, his only employee at MillardAir, and AM, his very very close friend and roommie, who raced at Baja with him -- looking at a souped-up Camaro engine: [video=youtube;oavEKN_Iw6I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavEKN_Iw6I[/video] . It may be worth a look.
As a reminder (discussed earlier): AM had posted on a social media site **in 2012** the following "How to steal cars" and immediately following that, "#Gone in 60 seconds" -- see http://forums.redflagdeals.com/missing-hamilton-man-tim-bosma-1335876/5/. (WS admin: I am not posting from AM's social media site but a public community site -- redflagdeals, so I hope this doesn't violate the rules). Once again: what if this was supposed to be a quick grab for the car, that went very very sideways? DM recruited his friends for his "thieving" / "missions".....
There was a reference to a receipt for a red camaro in the prosecution's case against DM in the TB case (no explanation yet for that receipt/reference); now we see a red camaro in the hangar and DMs key men with it. I wonder if the case will show this was a stolen camaro with a dummy receipt? Not sure why else the prosecution would reference a receipt and then show a car (although, for the latter, discussion at the trial was re: DM's friends' interest in his expensive hobby -- vehicles).
I know this may have nothing to do with Audrey's case, and yet:
still a bit chilling to know, given the proximity of her property to TB's home, this ring of car thieves, "overkill" or staged scene in AG's murder, and very clear interest in a camaro. Moo.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

More: testimony today in the TB case indicates that DM & friends referred to vehicle thefts as "missions" and "capers"; one man testified that he was asked (for pay) to be involved as a lookout in two vehicle thefts at night; one text message asked what DM would be "thieving" this time....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...-by-dellen-millard-defence-suggests-1.3523124

It strikes me now it could be especially significant that Audrey was murdered in her garage. What if they expected an older woman to be sleeping soundly at night -- not suspecting she was a night owl? Could she have surprised someone by heading to the garage for a smoke in the wee hours? Or might she have heard something and gone to investigate, not suspecting it could be a break-in?
Could her murder have been the result of these low-life types panicking in what was supposed to be a robbery? Thus the "staged" scene as a cover-up?
Anyway --
I know this is all speculation. But much less preposterous now than I would have considered prior to the TB case. Especially given testimony about DM and friends casing the opportunities --
(and neighbours talking about a man on a bike with a knapsack seen in Audrey's very rural area in relation to her case. And at the risk of sounding wholly paranoid now, I'm suddenly wondering what kind of vehicle Shelly Loder drove, or what expensive items might have been visible outside her studio -- since DM was also stealing things like maple trees if the opportunity arose -- and there was a man seen walking in Loder's rural area around the time as well). Ummmmm.....

In case Shelley we have to wait for a male witness with reddish hair at TB trial ......... I'm curious ..........

 

[gregjrichards]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...s-to-steal-vehicles-friend-tells-murder-trial

In 2012, Hagerman was recruited into Millard’s “missions,” that were openly called “thieving.”

“Need a lookout on a walkie-talkie tonight. 10 p.m. — 3 a.m.,” reads a text from Millard to Hagerman on Oct. 2. “$50 or credit towards future grabs. Interested?”

Hagerman replied he would “be able and willing to help at around 1. Where is this going down?”

“Waterloo,” replied Millard.

“What are we going to be thieving?” Hagerman asked.

“Lawnmowers,” texted Millard. “2 ride ones.”


Not only had Audrey a nice shiny Camaro but she owned 2010 also a riding lawnmower. :thinking:

-.-.-.-.-.-.-

The last witness (TB case) told of his grandmother and his connection via her to the Millards. I think, somewhere there may be a grandmother who had connections to Audrey and so had her male? grandchild indirectly too.

Somewhat of a connection also could be Audrey's glorius property which caught the eye of a real estate agent and his/her "rich client" who is/was in illegal things. AG's murder didn't help purchasing the property of course but it may have been the first interest, second: rural area, third: elderly single, fourth: Camaro/lawnmower/theft.

I wish there was a way we could find out once and for all whether Millard & co were involved in Audrey's murder. Does the fact if I recall correctly that nothing was taken from Audrey's count against it being them? Thanks everyone for the discussion about Audrey's case and for keeping the thread going.

 

[Sphinx]

I wish there was a way we could find out once and for all whether Millard & co were involved in Audrey's murder. Does the fact if I recall correctly that nothing was taken from Audrey's count against it being them? Thanks everyone for the discussion about Audrey's case and for keeping the thread going.

You make a very good point about Audrey's death making her lovely country property become available on the real estate market. Always ask: who benefits ? Maybe it did not play out the way someone hoped, but who did eventually buy her property after her death ? Did they resell it to someone else ? I believe a friend inherited her estate. Who are the heirs of this person ? As the old saying goes, follow the money. Another great motive for murder is revenge. Was there someone who was disinherited by Audrey, or someone who thought they should be in her will, and found out they were not ? Just some thoughts. IMO

 

[Pink Panther]

For those who are pursuing a possible connection to the TB case...

I have found a link that indicates that SS's father and Audrey both had their funerals at the same place. Beckett - Glaves Family Funeral Centre.

 

[Sillybilly]

and neighbours talking about a man on a bike with a knapsack seen in Audrey's very rural area in relation to her case

<rsbm>

My recollection is that the person with the backpack was seen walking down Audrey's driveway but it was DLS who used to ride his bike.

In the Bosma case, DM and MS are said to have arrived on foot for both test drives.

Something else I've pondered is that PK met Audrey a few years prior when he worked at Windmill Power Equipment (they sell ride-on mowers). Just wondering if Audrey had visited there recently in relation to getting parts, or trading in her old ride-on or acquiring a new one. I think PK had said that he trimmed branches/limbs so Audrey could use her ride-on.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.brantfordpolishhall.com/htdoc/history_of_poles_brantford5.html

History of Polish Community in Brantford (NO hint on Audrey)

Had AG been a member of the polish community in Brantford perhaps?
In DM's/MS's circle there are some with polish parents/ancestors AFAIK as well as MS is one of them and ie AM.

 

[dotr]

Cannot find or recall if anything was posted about this unusual perp's actions on/near Mohawk St., in December but a composite pic of suspect was released in 2015, fwiw.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...lar-to-others-on-west-mountain-area-1.3361194

Police investigating sexual assault similar to others on West Mountain area
Assault took place on Dec. 8 on Mohawk Road and Rice Avenue

CBC News Posted: Dec 11, 2015

Hamilton police are investigating a sexual assault that is similar to a string of other incidents that took place in the same area.

The female victim of this incident and a friend were walking in the area on Dec. 8 at 8:30 p.m. when an unknown man walked past them on the sidewalk. The man then turned around, approached the victim from behind and grabbed her buttocks, the release sed.

The man then fled on foot westbound on Mohawk Road and turned southbound through the townhouse complex at 145 Rice Ave.

 

[dotr]

This article explains what was going on with the Canadian cannabis scene in 2009 when the McMaster piece was published. I would think Audrey would have read it in its entirety.
[h=1]Marijuana's journey to legal health treatment: the Canadian experience[/h]
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/marij...th-treatment-the-canadian-experience-1.799488

Not to stoke any fires..but it is interesting that a new facility has recently been constructed in the Hamilton area and by coincidence, this description reminded me of Audrey" home
Although probably unlikely, there is always the possibility somebody with ill intentions, was scouting the area.
Also, Audrey may well have found the use of fish in the production to be interesting, imo.
rbbm.

At the end of February, Green Relief Inc. became Canada's 28th licensed producer of dried marijuana under the Marijuana for Medical Purposes Regulations (MMPR). The company says it's also the largest aquaponics commercial grow facility in North America.

Just off a main concession, a bumpy dirt road winds past a weathered barn and crosses over a babbling brook. The view might lead one to expect to find an historic farmhouse or field of crops as they crest the final hill up the laneway.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...st-legal-marijuana-production-plant-1.3544318

 

[Arnie M]

.

Not sure how anyone can connect Audrey's 2010 murder to the Millard gang who appear to have become active in 2012

Besides , if they were after the car they forgot to take it.

.

 

[Snoopster]

Cannot find or recall if anything was posted about this unusual perp's actions on/near Mohawk St., in December but a composite pic of suspect was released in 2015, fwiw.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...lar-to-others-on-west-mountain-area-1.3361194




View attachment 92437

Thanks for keeping an eye on things dotr! Much appreciated.

 

[Snoopster]

.

Not sure how anyone can connect Audrey's 2010 murder to the Millard gang who appear to have become active in 2012

Besides , if they were after the car they forgot to take it.

.

I agree that that makes the argument weaker, however.....perhaps these were the 'early days' of Millard's escapades. What if he was going after the Camaro and tough-as-steel Audrey confronted him(them)? Perhaps they panicked, killed her, and then took off in panic. Perhaps he(they) felt elated when nothing came of it and they escaped suspicion. Perhaps it fed his(their) appetite for excitement and it emboldened them. All just possible.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

.

Not sure how anyone can connect Audrey's 2010 murder to the Millard gang who appear to have become active in 2012

Besides , if they were after the car they forgot to take it.

.

Dungey also asked about when Michalski and his group of friends first started stealing, and Michalski said it was on "Devil's night," on Oct. 30 in 2011. The group — which included Hagerman and Millard — broke into a nursery and stole plants for Millard's garden.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-michalski-day-2-1.3533654

They (whoever exactly) started stealing in Oct. 2011 Michalski said. Maybe, he wasn't involved earlier than 2011 but someone other was?

That "the thieves forgot to take the Camaro" may have had the reason they couldn't outwit the security system of the car (member "NSU" told us something about ON Star or similar) before AG entered her garage?

:fence: I'm waiting for things may happen after Tim's trial ........... but I'm open minded re "car theft" or "frustration/revenge".

 

[Arnie M]

.

Remember also that in 2010 Millard was based out of Toronto Pearson Airport ...... there was no farm or hangar in the Waterloo area.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Alex Pierson &#8207;@AlexpiersonAMP 2 Min.
Mark smich had no job and forced Marlena to make money. Get a job. He wld play video games (violent) and write violent rap lyrics about other girls.

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 5 Min.
He told her to work. He didn't have to though--he had his "mommy," Sachak says. She agrees. #Bosma


:thinking: re violence and a mother ..........................

Adam Carter &#8207;@AdamCarterCBC 1 Min.
When Smich was young he stole a car and got into an accident with it, Sachak says. Meneses agrees. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 6 Min.
Sachak says there'd be times they'd be walking on the road and he'd say hey write down an address, this is where Dell could steal something.

Lisa Hepfner &#8207;@HefCHCHNews 48 Min.
#Smich wanted Meneses to strip to make money for him.

.............. and further :thinking: ...................