Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

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This, exactly. I've been reading things on here like "Barry would never do this" or "Barry seems like the kind of guy who would...", but really, you people know nothing about Barry, Honey, or what was going on in either of their minds. I understand how the family feel, my own brother killed himself a few years ago and I thought the same thing. When somebody does something like this, more often than not most people around them never saw it coming because they tend to hide their pain. Usually the only person that might have any clue is the spouse, and in this case the spouse is gone. With my brother, nobody saw it coming. Parents, children, siblings all thought he was the happiest most upbeat person they knew. So, to me anyway, its almost laughable when someone says "Barry wouldn't do that". You have no idea what you are talking about. The only people that have a grasp of what went on, who aren't biased by emotion, are the police, and they obviously see this as a suicide. This was NOT a mob hit. This was not a vendetta by estranged family. Lets take off our tinfoil hats and have some respect for these people. Kinda feels like some people are using this tragedy to play some sort of sick detective game. :maddening:

Suicide must be the ultimate difficult thing to live with, I cannot imagine, and I find it so disturbing in so many ways, and hope and pray that I never have to personally endure that kind of grief. I hope they get provable answers in this case, and hopefully the family's independent investigation, and so early in the timeline, will reassure the family of whatever the findings come back with.

It seems unfair to suggest that 'people are using this tragedy to play some sort of sick detective game' however, as delving into mysteries and suspicions and uncertainties in cases which are anything but clear, is what we tend to do here, as 'sleuths'. Unfortunately we are each affected differently by any given case, depending upon our own life experiences and personal baggage, history, and tragedies. I'm so sorry to hear about your brother.
 
Bigger house, closer to town.



The Toronto Star reported on Tuesday that the home was the subject of several lawsuits, with the couple suing its builders, managing to recoup $2-million in 2006, according to court documents. The Star also reported that the couple was planning to move into a bigger home, citing property records showing a house in Toronto’s downtown Forest Hill neighbourhood was transferred to Ms. Sherman in 2016.

https://www.hilltimes.com/2017/12/2...tawa-reacts-deaths-barry-honey-sherman/129368

I just wondered if there had been any comment from family or anyone 'in the know', about the 'whys' of this impending 'move', and the placing of their home on the market at this particular time. The media discovered that a property had been transferred into H's name last year, and it is easy to determine if the home is larger or smaller, or farther or closer to any particular place... but that doesn't speak to why they had chosen this change. Had *they* chosen it, or just H? Was it a year in the works? Were they trying to sort out marital difficulties in that year, which finally culminated in a decision to move on with a separation? Do we know anything aside from the stuff that a newspaper can find through records, and wouldn't necessarily be able to determine from anything other than hearing from those who actually knew?
 
Assuming double murder for purposes of discussion, it looks as if the perp got in and out again without being seen, had a plan for the security cameras, and left no obvious forensic trace evidence behind. I'm hoping that if there was a struggle with Honey she got at least a fibre or two under her nails, but even that may not have happened if she had a belt put around her neck from behind. If her arms weren't yet restrained she may have scratched at her own neck to try to release it. This would suggest to me, if it was let's say a disgruntled family member, that they at least hired someone to do it who knew how to avoid detection. I don't know whether a hired killer would pay that much attention to creating effect, beyond making it look like suicide. Plus the whole hiring of someone to do your dirty work means someone always has that knowledge over you.

But going by what police have said they are not looking for any outstanding suspects. Of course they could be saying that for investigative purposes but it's not like they've said more or that they've made arrests. That is the issue I keep going back to thinking about who did it.
 
Out of interest, has there ever been a case anyone can recall where the husband who murdered his wife staged her death as an identical suicide to his own?

It sounds as if they were restrained by their jackets in identical fashion, whereas if he did hers first his self-restraint might not end up being as easy to achieve as hers, with his arms behind him.

IF it was a suicide/murder done by BS, once Honey was hung he could place the belt around his neck and railing, reach around and grab the centre back of his jacket and pull it down, then lean forward into the belt. His jacket may not come down as far as hers but it would come down.
IF that is what he had planned, his jacket could have been almost off the shoulder beforehand, to make it easier to pull down. The belt doesn't need to be tight around the neck beforehand, when one leans in, gravity takes over. JMO
 
https://www.cp24.com/news/mourners-...aire-couple-barry-and-honey-sherman-1.3730806
"These last few days have been really f---ed up for my family," he said.

"Whenever a crisis would strike, we always had two people to call for help ... As my sisters and I congregated for two days waiting to hear any facts other than through Twitter and the unreliable news media, I kept expecting my parents to walk through the front door and say 'everything will be fine, we've taken control of the situation.' These past few days have been a shocking adjustment to our reality."

Some media reports said police were initially leaning toward a murder-suicide theory, which the Sherman family has strongly rejected.

Jonathan Sherman, surrounded by his sisters Lauren, Alexandra and Kaelen, told the crowd of assembled mourners that the family has found the deaths "incredibly painful and bizarrely surreal."
 
I agree with you. At 75 most people become very adverse to change. If they were just in the demolition phase, their new home would likely be close to two years from being completed. That means two moves, two new places to get used to. For a guy that would be approaching 80, it might be a bit much. Do I think it was the reason for this? Certainly not, but it might have been one of many factors.

They did not live in their present home very long and it appears they were not happy with the work done.

Moving for them would be no big deal. Someone would do all of the packing, labellimg, etc.

I have a friend who was a contractor. One particularly weathy client kept changing what they wanted done and then refused to pay for the charges,

I cannot remember who brought whom to court, The rich are not easy to work for.
 
Bigger house, closer to town.



The Toronto Star reported on Tuesday that the home was the subject of several lawsuits, with the couple suing its builders, managing to recoup $2-million in 2006, according to court documents. The Star also reported that the couple was planning to move into a bigger home, citing property records showing a house in Toronto’s downtown Forest Hill neighbourhood was transferred to Ms. Sherman in 2016.

https://www.hilltimes.com/2017/12/2...tawa-reacts-deaths-barry-honey-sherman/129368

Are there any plans of the new house? Usually with a permit house plans are filed.

A bigger house? Why? I figured smaller.

Maybe one that was one story with more adjustments for aging.
 
Are there any plans of the new house? Usually with a permit house plans are filed.

A bigger house? Why? I figured smaller.

Maybe one that was one story with more adjustments for aging.
rbbm.
A bigger family! imo.
 
This screenshot doesn't show what I saw on TV today but it does show a body that is bent. This didn't make me gasp like the video I saw this morning.

attachment.php


Source: https://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=1286145

ETA: The video has been pulled so I got the ss just in time.

Is it possible that this body is stomach down?
 
Image at link.

I noticed here that the body does not look flat/horizontal.

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/americas/1.829326

Just surmising here but the bodies were in a heated home for at least 24-72 hrs. Might have come into contact with water which would speed up putrefaction? It doesn't take long for a corpse to start decaying, the gut bloats. Both were heavy in the middle by nature? After hanging, the face/head is usually congested i.e. bloated. People don't often die in a supine (flat) position unless on a bed. Rigor only lasts for a few hours, think it would have passed by the time they were found. JMO

PS and the upper body seeming to be 'bent' may be from the jacket and arms being behind them. They are unclothed by the coroner, its part of the autopsy.....so they would have left the pool area exactly as found. JMO
 
They did not live in their present home very long and it appears they were not happy with the work done.

Moving for them would be no big deal. Someone would do all of the packing, labellimg, etc.

I have a friend who was a contractor. One particularly weathy client kept changing what they wanted done and then refused to pay for the charges,

I cannot remember who brought whom to court, The rich are not easy to work for.

They've had that property (current one where they died) since 1985. That seems like a pretty long time - 32 years? Weird to me to suddenly make a move.. unless there was a reason.. just wondering if we have heard about one (from someone who would know).
When Barry and Honey Sherman bought their North York property in 1985, they planned to spend $2.3 million to build their dream home.
But they noticed problems with the home within months of moving in, in 1991, with Barry describing it as “a disaster.”

After litigation against the house’s designers and builders, they wound up recouping $2 million of the contracted amount to construct the home, according to a 2006 judgment.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...sherman-sued-builders-of-north-york-home.html
 
They did not live in their present home very long and it appears they were not happy with the work done.

Moving for them would be no big deal. Someone would do all of the packing, labellimg, etc.

I have a friend who was a contractor. One particularly weathy client kept changing what they wanted done and then refused to pay for the charges,

I cannot remember who brought whom to court, The rich are not easy to work for.

The Shermans bought the land on Old Colony Rd in 1985 and moved into the house in 1991. They've been there quite a while.
 
On the funeral service - a woman just stated that H had never been thought of as being 'healthy', and that she suffered from various ailments, and most recently, struggled with throat cancer. Did we know this before? So then it occurred to me that if suddenly H got some bad news in that regard, they could have created a 'pact'? But.. being who they are, if one were to choose to die together (or separately for that matter), wouldn't one choose to take some meds and just go to sleep? jmo
 
No. Face up, feet going out first.

I don't know about your legs, but mine don't bend in reverse. I'm picturing legs raised, going out first, but lying on tummy, kind of in a semi-sitting position.
 
On the funeral service - a woman just stated that H had never been thought of as being 'healthy', and that she suffered from various ailments, and most recently, struggled with throat cancer. Did we know this before? So then it occurred to me that if suddenly H got some bad news in that regard, they could have created a 'pact'? But.. being who they are, if one were to choose to die together (or separately for that matter), wouldn't one choose to take some meds and just go to sleep? jmo

Yes, if this were a mercy killing + suicide, I would think drugs would be the weapon of choice. Go together in peace, without pain, on a bed together.

Hanging is violent.

I remain on the fence.

jmo
 
Bigger family? Why would a bigger family need more than nine bathrooms? I imagine the kids all have nice homes of their own.
Thinking of family gatherings, visitors ect.
 
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