Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

[liz b.]

Out of interest, has there ever been a case anyone can recall where the husband who murdered his wife staged her death as an identical suicide to his own?

It sounds as if they were restrained by their jackets in identical fashion, whereas if he did hers first his self-restraint might not end up being as easy to achieve as hers, with his arms behind him.

Tortoise, I don't know of a case like that. But often each strange crime is unique unto itself. Personally I'm still unsure about what happened. Not enough info at this point. jmo

 

[Jasper52]

Is it possible that this body is stomach down?

That's what I wondered too.

 

[jillycat]

I don't know about your legs, but mine don't bend in reverse. I'm picturing legs raised, going out first, but lying on tummy, kind of in a semi-sitting position.

For what purpose would such a garish positioning on a gurney be necessary?

 

[andreww]

Suicide must be the ultimate difficult thing to live with, I cannot imagine, and I find it so disturbing in so many ways, and hope and pray that I never have to personally endure that kind of grief. I hope they get provable answers in this case, and hopefully the family's independent investigation, and so early in the timeline, will reassure the family of whatever the findings come back with.

It seems unfair to suggest that 'people are using this tragedy to play some sort of sick detective game' however, as delving into mysteries and suspicions and uncertainties in cases which are anything but clear, is what we tend to do here, as 'sleuths'. Unfortunately we are each affected differently by any given case, depending upon our own life experiences and personal baggage, history, and tragedies. I'm so sorry to hear about your brother.

To me suicide is far easier to deal with than say an accidental death. The person went out on their own terms the way I look at it. The problem with the family hiring private investigators is that these investigators will say exactly what the family wants to hear and can draw their investigation, and their pay checks out for years. They are not impartial.

As for people sleuthing, I've got no problem with that. However when people bring up far fetched scenarios like mafia hits, without an ounce of evidence, I have a problem with that. Too many people watching movies. No evidence of an intruder, a struggle, or an entry point? Lets say it was a super assassin. Anybody check where Burke Ramsey was that night? :thinking:

 

[Jealoushe]

@KenWhyte3
as soon as i criticized coverage of sherman story yesterday, i began hearing that there has been interference by some media owners with coverage of the story

@KenWhyte3
Replying to @HeerJeet
we don't know how they died and I'm relaying that I've been told by a couple of sources that pursuit of story has been discouraged, which isn't a cover-up but is still worrisome

^
this is from a former National Post editor which I found interesting.

Yep, a huge cover up is happening IMO

What kind of interference I wonder.

The kind the Police can't even fight against.

My money is on a double murder at the moment. Political, nothing to do with the cousins.

Agreed. American ties also.

I am having a difficult time with the "sources" saying 3 important discoveries.

The police don't seem to have mentioned them and some papers are running with what the quotes from "sources" have said.

I have nothing against the Toronto Sun and perhaps the source's information is viable or perhaps the source is wrong. I wish I knew that any of this has been verified.


The Toronto Sun quotes sources as saying:

1. That Honey Sherman was killed in another area of the house
2. Belts were used
3. Jackets were pulled back onto their arms

Police haven't made statements to the above.

Toronto Sun states a source says Honey Sherman was killed in another area of the house:

"Sources close to the case believe Honey may have been killed in a secondary location in the $6.9 million Old Colony Rd. house and then moved to the location where she was later found with her deceased husband."


The Toronto Sun quotes "a source":

:http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/much-loved-billionaire-couple-found-dead-in-north-york-mansion

What is this message saying, do you think ?

It is telling others in the know, that they can get to you, and make it look like a suicide. So keep your mouth shut.

According to CTV tonight, the children have hired a private investigator due to the fact that the Homicide team do not believe there is a murderer out there. It seems that they are still working with the murder-suicide/suicide-suicide theory.

Exactly. The cops are probably being advised to drop it, just a suicide, nothing to see here. Glad the family is doing their own investigation.

 

[Inthedetails]

For what purpose would such a garish positioning on a gurney be necessary?

If rigor mortis set in, they didn't position the body in that way - it was stiffened that way.

 

[andreww]

For what purpose would such a garish positioning on a gurney be necessary?

Rigormortis

 

[Twinkle]

I just wondered if there had been any comment from family or anyone 'in the know', about the 'whys' of this impending 'move', and the placing of their home on the market at this particular time. The media discovered that a property had been transferred into H's name last year, and it is easy to determine if the home is larger or smaller, or farther or closer to any particular place... but that doesn't speak to why they had chosen this change. Had *they* chosen it, or just H? Was it a year in the works? Were they trying to sort out marital difficulties in that year, which finally culminated in a decision to move on with a separation? Do we know anything aside from the stuff that a newspaper can find through records, and wouldn't necessarily be able to determine from anything other than hearing from those who actually knew?

I might be totally wrong but there has been reports(and her son mentioned it in the eulogy) that Honey had arthritis. Maybe those spiral staircases were getting to be to difficult for her, so they were looking to build home without stairs.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

 

[dotr]

Yes, if this were a mercy killing + suicide, I would think drugs would be the weapon of choice. Go together in peace, without pain, on a bed together.

Hanging is violent.

I remain on the fence.

jmo

Murder seems likely,
but if not, again thinking of the significance of sleeves rolled, 'get to work ' and the symbolism of a pool and a" cord " with returning to the womb.
imo, respectfully speculating.

 

[Tighthead]

Out of interest, has there ever been a case anyone can recall where the husband who murdered his wife staged her death as an identical suicide to his own?

It sounds as if they were restrained by their jackets in identical fashion, whereas if he did hers first his self-restraint might not end up being as easy to achieve as hers, with his arms behind him.

Identical seems like a big assumption. Similar seems more likely based on what has been made known.

 

[jillycat]

If rigor mortis set in, they didn't position the body in that way - it was stiffened that way.

Coroner personnel didn't place the body on the gurney that way?

The other body is flat. If the presumption is 'the jackets' are the issue, the other body would not be without what you are assuming is the jacket in the picture in question.

Whatever the case, the coroner has known since the scene and certainly since the autopsy what, when, and where.

 

[andreww]

No. Face up, feet going out first.

I disagree. face down or on their side. Feet first.

 

[deugirtni]

For what purpose would such a garish positioning on a gurney be necessary?

To me, it would have appeared much more garish to be the other way.. *if* the body was still in rigor mortis and in a semi-sitting position, and they knew cameras were watching.. etc.

 

[andreww]

No. Face up, feet going out first.

Or face up head first.

 

[jillycat]

To me, it would have appeared much more garish to be the other way.. *if* the body was still in rigor mortis and in a semi-sitting position, and they knew cameras were watching.. etc.

On the side would not have been sufficient? Still trying to understand why the jacket has no effect on the position of the other body. My point is, we have no idea what we are seeing in that picture.

 

[Jasper52]

I might be totally wrong but there has been reports(and her son mentioned it in the eulogy) that Honey had arthritis. Maybe those spiral staircases were getting to be to difficult for her, so they were looking to build home without stairs.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Plenty of msm reports that they wanted to live closer to downtown Toronto. I read they were building a two story condo. The house that is currently up for sale has the potential for an elevator so I tend to believe they just wanted to be closer to downtown. JMO

 

[Jennifer17]

Coroner personnel didn't place the body on the gurney that way?

The other body is flat. If the presumption is 'the jackets' are the issue, the other body would not be without what you are assuming is the jacket in the picture in question.

Whatever the case, the coroner has known since the scene and certainly since the autopsy what, when, and where.

Which means that one was dead some time before the other. Still looking like murder/suicide to me.

 

[nuff]

The funeral service, which was livestreamed, was incredibly sad but beautiful, I thought. And for those who have suggested that close family could somehow have been involved in what happened, I'd say absolutely no way. The grief was very moving and very genuine. I sincerely hope some explanation of this tragedy is found.

 

[jillycat]

Which means that one was dead some time before the other. Still looking like murder/suicide to me.

I have no idea what the manner is, but don't think different times of death confirm one manner vs another.

 

[andreww]

Yep, a huge cover up is happening IMO



The kind the Police can't even fight against.



Agreed. American ties also.





It is telling others in the know, that they can get to you, and make it look like a suicide. So keep your mouth shut.



Exactly. The cops are probably being advised to drop it, just a suicide, nothing to see here. Glad the family is doing their own investigation.

Jeez, if this was a murder, why the heck would the police, or anyone, want to keep this quite? The family doesn't want it public because they don't want the legacy of their father to be a suicidal murderer. By now cops should have a ton of evidence, phone usage, web searches, fingerprints, security footage, and the still aren't looking for suspects. What does that tell you?