Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

[loveisthemovement]

Looking at the floor plans, it would seem the garage is below ground level and therefore on the same level as the pool. The garage's proximity to the pool would be important to the perp if the scenario where the Shermans are accosted after arriving home is proven true.

 

[JDG]

What comes to my mind is the elimination of body waste that occurs with death.

We have been told that COD was strangulation, so any release of body fluids at death would be in the pool area. Perhaps the killer had to subdue her and caused injuries that bled or there are signs of a struggle elsewhere in the home or garage. I doubt that either one of them went willingly if its a double murder or if he killed her, he must have had to use force to get her to the pool area. I say that because most people would fight like a tiger to NOT comply.

Taking into consideration Barrys age (he was about to turn 76 and suffered from some sort of constant fatigue) and her 'sturdiness', I find this
whole nightmare almost impossible. The fact that she was using a personal trainer would lead me to believe she tried to keep fit and that would assist her in fighting off a man of her husbands age. IMO.

I feel very sorry for the realtor who found her and for their family members who will have to live with the outcome of a very public investigation.

All deaths are sad but this is very peculiar, to say in the least. Bet even the seasoned LE officers feel that way.

 

[Tortoise]

We have been told that COD was strangulation, so any release of body fluids at death would be in the pool area. Perhaps the killer had to subdue her and caused injuries that bled or there are signs of a struggle elsewhere in the home or garage. I doubt that either one of them went willingly if its a double murder or if he killed her, he must have had to use force to get her to the pool area. I say that because most people would fight like a tiger to NOT comply.

Taking into consideration Barrys age (he was about to turn 76 and suffered from some sort of constant fatigue) and her 'sturdiness', I find this
whole nightmare almost impossible. The fact that she was using a personal trainer would lead me to believe she tried to keep fit and that would assist her in fighting off a man of her husbands age. IMO.

I feel very sorry for the realtor who found her and for their family members who will have to live with the outcome of a very public investigation.

All deaths are sad but this is very peculiar, to say in the least. Bet even the seasoned LE officers feel that way.

Unless she was strangled elsewhere and dragged to the poolside.

 

[clearskies1]

We have been told that COD was strangulation, so any release of body fluids at death would be in the pool area. Perhaps the killer had to subdue her and caused injuries that bled or there are signs of a struggle elsewhere in the home or garage. I doubt that either one of them went willingly if its a double murder and if he killed her, he must have had to use force to get her to the pool area. I say that because most people would fight like a tiger to NOT comply.

Taking into consideration Barrys age (he was about to turn 76 and suffered from some sort of constant fatigue) and her 'sturdiness', I find this
whole nightmare almost impossible. The fact that she was using a personal trainer would lead me to believe she tried to keep fit and that would assist her in fighting off a man of her husbands age. IMO.

I feel very sorry for the realtor who found her and for their family members who will have to live with the outcome of a very public investigation.

All deaths are sad but this is very peculiar, to say in the least. Bet even the seasoned LE officers feel that way.

There was a report that LE thought she was killed elsewhere. She could have been strangled elsewhere, leaving bodily fluids in that location, then later tied up/hung by the pool.

 

[otto]

Looking at the floor plans, it would seem the garage is below ground level and therefore on the same level as the pool. The garage's proximity to the pool would be important to the perp if the scenario where the Shermans are accosted after arriving home is proven true.

True, but there would be no reason for cameras in the garage to be disconnected, so either they too were disconnected by a third party, or there is surveillance footage of everything that happened in the garage - or perhaps nothing happened in the garage.

 

[otto]

Unless she was strangled elsewhere and dragged to the poolside.

And perhaps while being dragged with a belt to the pool area, her jacket rolled down her arms.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

And perhaps while being dragged with a belt to the pool area, her jacket rolled down her arms.

THIS has been sticking with me since the "jackets" were first reported.

Also, they reported that Honey may have been killed elsewhere in the home. Wonder how they know it was only she who may have been killed elsewhere and not Barry as well. If the "evidence" is bodily fluids released after death, they had to have done DNA on that fluid to determine whose it was and that can't have happened as quickly as it was reported IMO.

 

[Tortoise]

THIS has been sticking with me since the "jackets" were first reported.

Also, they reported that Honey may have been killed elsewhere in the home. Wonder how they know it was only she who may have been killed elsewhere and not Barry as well. If the "evidence" is bodily fluids released after death, they had to have done DNA on that fluid to determine whose it was and that can't have happened as quickly as it was reported IMO.

Not necessarily, their clothing would reveal this.

 

[kiwi50]

Maybe Honey was killed in the car.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

Not necessarily, their clothing would reveal this.

can't just assume that the liquid found on clothing is the same as found elsewhere. There'd have to be a test to determine that. Careless reporting might make that assumption but it would never hold up in court FWIW.

 

[zencompass]

I am having a difficult time with the "sources" saying 3 important discoveries.

The police don't seem to have mentioned them and some papers are running with what the quotes from "sources" have said.

I have nothing against the Toronto Sun and perhaps the source's information is viable or perhaps the source is wrong. I wish I knew that any of this has been verified.


The Toronto Sun quotes sources as saying:

1. That Honey Sherman was killed in another area of the house
2. Belts were used
3. Jackets were pulled back onto their arms

Police haven't made statements to the above.

Toronto Sun states a source says Honey Sherman was killed in another area of the house:

"Sources close to the case believe Honey may have been killed in a secondary location in the $6.9 million Old Colony Rd. house and then moved to the location where she was later found with her deceased husband."


The Toronto Sun quotes "a source":

:http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/much-loved-billionaire-couple-found-dead-in-north-york-mansion

 

[human]

Even if they got in a fight and he killed her in a fit of rage and felt horrible about it and killed himself he would not go through putting these jackets on and hanging her and himself. What's the purpose?

That is something I do not understand.If she was dead already, why the jacket arm thing?

What kind of belt is long enough to go around a neck and a railing?

 

[spanishshara]

Even with all the sources coming out it's still in the back of my mind that police said no forced entry but more importantly - they're not looking for any outstanding suspects.

 

[liz b.]

There was a report that LE thought she was killed elsewhere. She could have been strangled elsewhere, leaving bodily fluids in that location, then later tied up/hung by the pool.

Yes. And my next question was : WHY ? Why hang her body from the pool railing ? Something important here, imo.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I am having a difficult time with the "sources" saying 3 important discoveries.

The police don't seem to have mentioned them and some papers are running with what the quotes from "sources" have said.

I have nothing against the Toronto Sun and perhaps the source's information is viable or perhaps the source is wrong. I wish I knew that any of this has been verified.


The Toronto Sun quotes sources as saying:

1. That Honey Sherman was killed in another area of the house
2. Belts were used
3. Jackets were pulled back onto their arms

Police haven't made statements to the above.

Toronto Sun states a source says Honey Sherman was killed in another area of the house:

"Sources close to the case believe Honey may have been killed in a secondary location in the $6.9 million Old Colony Rd. house and then moved to the location where she was later found with her deceased husband."


The Toronto Sun quotes "a source":

:http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/much-loved-billionaire-couple-found-dead-in-north-york-mansion

This is truly a confusing case to understand.

Why even move her if it really was a murder/suicide? If he killed Honey and knew he was going to kill himself then why would he care where her body was found? Why go through all that unnecessary effort for a man in his 70s? It would take someone in tip-top shape to drag a dead body to that area. Was he known to be exceptionally physically fit for his age?

And why were both restrained with the jackets pulled back where their arms would be bound? Would they normally have jackets on inside their home since it said Honey was killed elsewhere (possibly inside)? The method of making a jacket a restraint by restricting their arm movements is something professional killers would do...like hit men, imo.

I tend to think that maybe both deaths were homicides and they moved Honey to put them both on display in the same area so they would be discovered together.

I really hope LE thoroughly investigates this case for many things just don't make sense with it being a murder suicide.

JMO

 

[TTF14]

Even with all the sources coming out it's still in the back of my mind that police said no forced entry but more importantly - they're not looking for any outstanding suspects.

Well, not that we know of. Just because they said that (and did they officially?) doesn't make it true.

 

[kay74]

There was a report that LE thought she was killed elsewhere. She could have been strangled elsewhere, leaving bodily fluids in that location, then later tied up/hung by the pool.

But why the jacket?

 

[human]

I am observing that the cousins who got millions are now going after the estate.

Apparently millions are not enough

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Even with all the sources coming out it's still in the back of my mind that police said no forced entry but more importantly - they're not looking for any outstanding suspects.

Surely they aren't just assuming murder/suicide since no forced entry was found. There have been countless murder cases where the home/s showed no forced entry. They easily could have opened the door or it may not have even been locked at the time.

Has LE said in detail what evidence they have that shows them this was a murder/suicide? tia

 

[Tighthead]

I am observing that the cousins who got millions are now going after the estate.

Apparently millions are not enough

All that means is that they are continuing with the existing litigation. “Going after the estate” does not represent a change in tactics or a new proceeding. The moment he died they were pursuing the estate.