Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

[PostTruth]

The police are probably looking at other surveillance footage of the unknown visitor, from other cameras in the area. According to the Donovan article, the person entering the house is difficult to identify on the neighbour's grainy footage. Maybe the other footage will give them a clear shot. It's not a long shot (no pun intended).

 

[dotr]

Wonder who the Greenspan team have in mind to interview?
March 26 2019 rbbm.
Family of murder victims Barry and Honey Sherman giving Toronto police tips but learn information flow is a one-way street | The Star
"Private detectives working for the children of billionaire murder victims Barry and Honey Sherman are passing tips to police weekly but are frustrated the relationship is not a “two-way street,” says the Sherman family lawyer.

Five months ago, lawyer Brian Greenspan announced a $10 million reward from the Sherman family for information leading to the “apprehension and prosecution” of the murderer or murderers of the Apotex founder and his wife."

“What if we wanted to interview certain people? Will the interview interfere with what (police) are doing?” Greenspan said, speaking for his team of retired homicide detectives. “We were concerned we would step on toes, that all of a sudden we would come in and screw it up.”

"Greenspan said the reward generated a flurry of tips, including some that went directly to him. He would not describe the specific nature of the tips, but conceded that some came from psychics and some from people with no knowledge of the case, but who were trying to be helpful. “One woman emails me 100 times a week,” he said. “A lot of the stuff we got is useless.”

But Greenspan said one never knows where a grain of important information will be discovered."

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I have posted before about the inexplicable 45 minute delay by those at the crime scene in contacting police after the bodies were discovered. Now the Toronto star article indicates that the bodies were discovered around 10 am, but first responders didn’t arrive until 11.45 am, about an hour and 45 minutes later. I’m pretty sure that first responders arrived as quickly as possible after they were contacted. So I have to wonder again, what happened during that extended time? Who accessed the crime scene? What possible rationale would anyone have for not calling police for such a long time? Why wait for a realtor in Florida to tell you to call the police, and who did that realtor call?
I’m sorry, I know others here have tried to defend or explain the delay, but with this new information This whole case is really really starting to smell. Imo

That sticks with me as well. The reported delay seems as though there was a strong indication to the realtor that this was a m/s.

Maybe they equated what looked like hangings to self-inflicted deaths.

No good reason to not immediately call 911.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Wonder who the Greenspan team have in mind to interview?
March 26 2019 rbbm.
Family of murder victims Barry and Honey Sherman giving Toronto police tips but learn information flow is a one-way street | The Star
"Private detectives working for the children of billionaire murder victims Barry and Honey Sherman are passing tips to police weekly but are frustrated the relationship is not a “two-way street,” says the Sherman family lawyer.

Five months ago, lawyer Brian Greenspan announced a $10 million reward from the Sherman family for information leading to the “apprehension and prosecution” of the murderer or murderers of the Apotex founder and his wife."

“What if we wanted to interview certain people? Will the interview interfere with what (police) are doing?” Greenspan said, speaking for his team of retired homicide detectives. “We were concerned we would step on toes, that all of a sudden we would come in and screw it up.”

"Greenspan said the reward generated a flurry of tips, including some that went directly to him. He would not describe the specific nature of the tips, but conceded that some came from psychics and some from people with no knowledge of the case, but who were trying to be helpful. “One woman emails me 100 times a week,” he said. “A lot of the stuff we got is useless.”

But Greenspan said one never knows where a grain of important information will be discovered."

Thank you for the interesting article, dotr.

My question for Greenspan is: what if killers could afford a similar Greenspan team? What if the killer is close to the Sherman family?

He knows that the loved ones of victims are told little about evidence. It’s kept protected until there’s a trial.

I think Greenspan expects money to be the key to cracking the case. If so, link the money to the police tip line. Or put 10 million on both the private and public tip lines.

 

[MistyWaters]

That sticks with me as well. The reported delay seems as though there was a strong indication to the realtor that this was a m/s.

Maybe they equated what looked like hangings to self-inflicted deaths.

No good reason to not immediately call 911.

That one of the two persons in the exact same position as the other was a murderer, the other a victim, (m/s scenario) I just don’t think that’s be a typical conclusion.

To a lay person, I think two people in a sitting position with belts attached to railing would appear a double suicide. Even if there was blood anywhere, someone who isn’t a medical expert would not know if that was something that would normally occur during or after death.

 

[human]

That sticks with me as well. The reported delay seems as though there was a strong indication to the realtor that this was a m/s.

Maybe they equated what looked like hangings to self-inflicted deaths.

No good reason to not immediately call 911.

Do you really think a realtor would be making any decsions about a cause of death?

Maybe it was obvious they were dead and no rush for police. Maybe they called attorneys to see if they could be implicated in negligence for some reason. Lock box. Allowing people in to look at the house. Who knows.

I think whatever Honey and Barry looked like, it would be obvious they were dead a long time.

, I would have to go sit outside in my car.

There were clients. I imagine there had to be some calm discussions with clients that would have to not reveal what the realtor saw. Who knows what kind of discussion that would be but I imagine that the clients would have to be eased out of the house.

Finding a death on the premises probably is not good for business

 

[rickcross]

That one of the two persons in the exact same position as the other was a murderer, the other a victim, (m/s scenario) I just don’t think that’s be a typical conclusion.

To a lay person, I think two people in a sitting position with belts attached to railing would appear a double suicide. Even if there was blood anywhere, someone who isn’t a medical expert would not know if that was something that would normally occur during or after death.

Just hypothetically, let's say it was a murder suicide. Could Barry have messaged a close friend to come to the house and pick up some items that he had used? Maybe a device that googled suicide information on? Towels that he used to clean up blood? Items that LE were looking all over for?

I find it a little bit odd as well that a year and a half after the crime they are reviewing surveillance video and processing DNA. I know some things take time, but jeez.

 

[rickcross]

Another oddity about that article. Greenspans says he invited Saunders (or a rep) to join his tip panel, but he say the panel wouldn't convene until a decision on a payout was to be made. That presumably wouldn't happen until a conviction, or at the very least, a charge was laid. But at that point, what possible reason would Saunders have to join the panel? Doesn't make any sense?

 

[rickcross]

Do you really think a realtor would be making any decsions about a cause of death?

Maybe it was obvious they were dead and no rush for police. Maybe they called attorneys to see if they could be implicated in negligence for some reason. Lock box. Allowing people in to look at the house. Who knows.

I think whatever Honey and Barry looked like, it would be obvious they were dead a long time.

, I would have to go sit outside in my car.

There were clients. I imagine there had to be some calm discussions with clients that would have to not reveal what the realtor saw. Who knows what kind of discussion that would be but I imagine that the clients would have to be eased out of the house.

Finding a death on the premises probably is not good for business

I would have to say that this person was not a realtor. LE would have a log of all the people that were supposed to be at that house in the days leading up to the crime. I would see no reason for a realtor to lie. So even though the video is grainy, any of the people that had legitimate reasons to be there would easily be able to identify themselves. As the article states that no identification has been made, one must assume that the person on the tape is not on the map at this point. So the question is not only who this person is, but why they are accessing the house on that particular day. That is if this tape is from the 14th and not a week earlier as some have claimed.

 

[MistyWaters]

Just hypothetically, let's say it was a murder suicide. Could Barry have messaged a close friend to come to the house and pick up some items that he had used? Maybe a device that googled suicide information on? Towels that he used to clean up blood? Items that LE were looking all over for?

I find it a little bit odd as well that a year and a half after the crime they are reviewing surveillance video and processing DNA. I know some things take time, but jeez.

Hmm, resembles the farfetched “Assistant to Barry the Murderer” theory.

Are you aware when the deaths were determined to have been a Targeted Double Homicide Barry Sherman was cleared.

 

[rickcross]

Hmm, resembles the farfetched “Assistant to Barry the Murderer” theory.

Are you aware when the deaths were determined to have been a Targeted Double Homicide Barry Sherman was cleared.

I'm also aware that Jussie Smollett had all charges against him dropped

Doesn't mean he's innocent does it?

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm also aware that Jussie Smollett had all charges against him dropped

Doesn't mean he's innocent does it?

Last I recall you wrote you believed the Russian mob was responsible for the Sherman murders. Now you’re accusing Jussie Smollett?

 

[human]

I would have to say that this person was not a realtor. LE would have a log of all the people that were supposed to be at that house in the days leading up to the crime. I would see no reason for a realtor to lie. So even though the video is grainy, any of the people that had legitimate reasons to be there would easily be able to identify themselves. As the article states that no identification has been made, one must assume that the person on the tape is not on the map at this point. So the question is not only who this person is, but why they are accessing the house on that particular day. That is if this tape is from the 14th and not a week earlier as some have claimed.

I am talking about the 45 minute delay while the realtor was showing the house

 

[MistyWaters]

Another oddity about that article. Greenspans says he invited Saunders (or a rep) to join his tip panel, but he say the panel wouldn't convene until a decision on a payout was to be made. That presumably wouldn't happen until a conviction, or at the very least, a charge was laid. But at that point, what possible reason would Saunders have to join the panel? Doesn't make any sense?

Earlier Greenspan invited someone from TPS to sit on the panel but iirc it wasn’t necessarily the Police Chief. I’d think the Saunders would have better things to do than review tips especially if somebody is going for what sounds like a lottery win by sending in a 100 tips every week.

The reward was up to $10 million, not a flat $10 million. I also recall Greenspan mentioning during the press conference police input would be important to determine how greatly the tip resulted in an arrest and conviction so perhaps that’s what he’s eluding to now as well.

If one or more tips do prove helpful I’m sure they’ll all figure out how to disburse the reward somehow. The fact that it’s even being mentioned is positive IMO.

 

[ldlager]

Do you really think a realtor would be making any decsions about a cause of death?

Maybe it was obvious they were dead and no rush for police. Maybe they called attorneys to see if they could be implicated in negligence for some reason. Lock box. Allowing people in to look at the house. Who knows.

I think whatever Honey and Barry looked like, it would be obvious they were dead a long time.

, I would have to go sit outside in my car.

There were clients. I imagine there had to be some calm discussions with clients that would have to not reveal what the realtor saw. Who knows what kind of discussion that would be but I imagine that the clients would have to be eased out of the house.

Finding a death on the premises probably is not good for business

I doubt that the realtors got close enough to determine if they were dead or alive. The pool room was long and the realtors stood at the far end from what I have read. I am not overly squeamish, but I sure wouldn’t be walking up to those bodes to check for a pulse, I would call 911 immediately.
Human, imagine if the Shermans had looked dead but in fact They were still alive, and it could be proven that they died during the almost 2 hour delay before first responders were called. In that case, would you support charging the realtor(s) with murder or manslaughter?
Imo was no reasonable justification for not calling 911 immediately.

 

[ldlager]

I would have to say that this person was not a realtor. LE would have a log of all the people that were supposed to be at that house in the days leading up to the crime. I would see no reason for a realtor to lie. So even though the video is grainy, any of the people that had legitimate reasons to be there would easily be able to identify themselves. As the article states that no identification has been made, one must assume that the person on the tape is not on the map at this point. So the question is not only who this person is, but why they are accessing the house on that particular day. That is if this tape is from the 14th and not a week earlier as some have claimed.

Hmm, resembles the farfetched “Assistant to Barry the Murderer” theory.

Are you aware when the deaths were determined to have been a Targeted Double Homicide Barry Sherman was cleared.

With respect Misty, having the TPS announce this was a double homicide doesn’t clear Barry Sherman of anything.

 

[MistyWaters]

With respect Misty, having the TPS announce this was a double homicide doesn’t clear Barry Sherman of anything.

Why doesn’t it? I do not notice ongoing debate whatsoever about the cause or manner of deaths of the Shermans anywhere except here on WS. There’s no longer any media links to support the m/s so what is the source of Barry’s alleged guilt of murdering his wife? Is he not a victim?

 

[human]

I doubt that the realtors got close enough to determine if they were dead or alive. The pool room was long and the realtors stood at the far end from what I have read. I am not overly squeamish, but I sure wouldn’t be walking up to those bodes to check for a pulse, I would call 911 immediately.
Human, imagine if the Shermans had looked dead but in fact They were still alive, and it could be proven that they died during the almost 2 hour delay before first responders were called. In that case, would you support charging the realtor(s) with murder or manslaughter?
Imo was no reasonable justification for not calling 911 immediately.

I imagine their faces were a nice blue or purple

 

[ldlager]

Why doesn’t it? I do not notice ongoing debate whatsoever about the cause or manner of deaths of the Shermans anywhere except here on WS. There’s no longer any media links to support the m/s so what is the source of Barry’s alleged guilt of murdering his wife? Is he not a victim?

My point was that just because tps says something doesn’t make it fact or true. You referenced Barry, so that’s how I responded, but What tps states as fact is in no way proof of anything imo.

 

[ldlager]

I imagine their faces were a nice blue or purple

Perhaps. But the pool room is over 43 ft long, and the bodies were facing away from the door. Maybe the realtor had binoculars? Lol