Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

[Tortoise]

My point was that just because tps says something doesn’t make it fact or true. You referenced Barry, so that’s how I responded, but What tps states as fact is in no way proof of anything imo.

I may be ignorant and I haven't followed all of the back and forth about it, but wouldn't the coroner be officially responsible for the determination that he was murdered, as opposed to the TPS?

 

[deugirtni]

I may be ignorant and I haven't followed all of the back and forth about it, but wouldn't the coroner be officially responsible for the determination that he was murdered, as opposed to the TPS?

This is just my own opinion, but the last I read, was that the coroner came to a conclusion of 'undetermined' on the method of death. I believe it then becomes up to police to find the answer, and in January 2018 police held a press conference to announce the deaths were being investigated as a double homicide.

 

[deugirtni]

"Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders says his officers have interviewed the mystery man who spent 29 minutes inside the home of Barry and Honey Sherman while they lay dead in the basement.

Neither Saunders nor a spokesperson would identify the individual, or respond to questions about what the man did in the house, how he got through the locked front door, and whether or not he went into the basement or onto the second floor, or stayed on the main floor. The house was for sale at the time and there was a realtor lockbox on the front door."

Chief Mark Saunders on Barry and Honey Sherman case: ‘Our officers did not drop the ball’ | The Star

 

[MistyWaters]

This is just my own opinion, but the last I read, was that the coroner came to a conclusion of 'undetermined' on the method of death. I believe it then becomes up to police to find the answer, and in January 2018 police held a press conference to announce the deaths were being investigated as a double homicide.

This has been discussed several times already. Only very few short snippets of the press conference have been quoted in media reports, not the entirety. Please listen to the complete audio of the press conference because Det Gomes speaks about the investigation in a chronological fashion. Yes, early on the manner of death was undetermined but keep listening. She goes on to talk about the further investigation amongst the partnership with forensics (six weeks) investigating all possibilities, then how that led to the conclusion of the manner of death, a targeted double homicide.

It’s definitely not to the whim of TPS how a death is investigated. Can you imagine, the largest utilization of TPS homicide resources in their history and nobody’s real sure if a homicide even occurred? That would never happen. Yikes, if it was up to a police department who’s deaths were investigated and who’s not, that wouldn’t make people too comfortable I don’t think. Neither are undetermined deaths investigated as homicides until additional information comes to light to indicate a homicide indeed took place.

Jan 26th Press Conference:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=QpbaNRmoiiw

 

[MistyWaters]

I may be ignorant and I haven't followed all of the back and forth about it, but wouldn't the coroner be officially responsible for the determination that he was murdered, as opposed to the TPS?

Yes, a fair bit of information has been mentioned both here and in the media from time to time about the role of the Ontario Coroner, the work of medical forensics and pathologists, the way a death occurs can be determined by internal and external medical examinations including notice of markings on the neck and other areas of the body, body position in relation to cause of death etc.

I am not aware of anywhere in Canada where a medical degree is required to become a police officer. Or why something about TPS is unique, compared to other police forces in the province.

Common questions about death investigations | Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services

 

[MistyWaters]

"Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders says his officers have interviewed the mystery man who spent 29 minutes inside the home of Barry and Honey Sherman while they lay dead in the basement.

Neither Saunders nor a spokesperson would identify the individual, or respond to questions about what the man did in the house, how he got through the locked front door, and whether or not he went into the basement or onto the second floor, or stayed on the main floor. The house was for sale at the time and there was a realtor lockbox on the front door."

Chief Mark Saunders on Barry and Honey Sherman case: ‘Our officers did not drop the ball’ | The Star

From your link:
“I can tell you we knew who the person was, why they were there, (the person) was interviewed,” Saunders said Tuesday in response to questions from reporters following a police board meeting. “It’s not in any way we dropped the ball, our officers did not drop the ball.”

Even if nothing else came of this, at least the killer now knows there was a working video camera pointed toward the front of the Sherman home during the time of the murders.

 

[ldlager]

From your link:
“I can tell you we knew who the person was, why they were there, (the person) was interviewed,” Saunders said Tuesday in response to questions from reporters following a police board meeting. “It’s not in any way we dropped the ball, our officers did not drop the ball.”

Even if nothing else came of this, at least the killer now knows there was a working video camera pointed toward the front of the Sherman home during the time of the murders.

Imo the killer couldn’t care less. It was dark, there were alternative entry points into the house, they probably knew where all the cameras were located anyways, and what can he/she do about it anyways. Plus I believe they are safely back in their own country.

 

[MistyWaters]

Imo the killer couldn’t care less. It was dark, there were alternative entry points into the house, they probably knew where all the cameras were located anyways, and what can he/she do about it anyways. Plus I believe they are safely back in their own country.

I believe the unidentified man story was leaked with a purpose.

 

[rickcross]

Why doesn’t it? I do not notice ongoing debate whatsoever about the cause or manner of deaths of the Shermans anywhere except here on WS. There’s no longer any media links to support the m/s so what is the source of Barry’s alleged guilt of murdering his wife? Is he not a victim?

Thats true, but quite frankly, aside from websleuths, who is even talking about these murders? Two reporters seem to write stories every few months based on whatever minuscule tidbits they can dig up. TPS hasn't said a word about the case since that one short press conference. Greenspan has said nothin either.

 

[rickcross]

Last I recall you wrote you believed the Russian mob was responsible for the Sherman murders. Now you’re accusing Jussie Smollett?

Am I accusing Jussie Smollett? I am just saying that because all charges were dropped, that does not make him innocent. Also it is an interesting example of how the police had overwhelming evidence, the man was indicted on 14 felonies, yet a powerful someone made the decision to let him walk. Could this be a similar scenario to what's happened here?

 

[rickcross]

I believe the unidentified man story was leaked with a purpose.

Why? I have seen countless examples of TPS releasing surveillance video in an attempt to identify people, why wouldn't they do that here? From what I understand the video came to light when a reporter was getting reactions from neighbours to the demolition of the home. Sounds completely plausible to me.

 

[rickcross]

Imo the killer couldn’t care less. It was dark, there were alternative entry points into the house, they probably knew where all the cameras were located anyways, and what can he/she do about it anyways. Plus I believe they are safely back in their own country.

Agreed.

 

[Kittybunny]

While of course we can't rule out anything, I find the professional hit from another country theory highly unlikely, because of the staging and highly personal nature the crime appears to be. For instance, a real mob hit in NJ happened as follows: The target was lured out of his home at 9:30pm through a phone call. When he went to his car or his driveway, he was gunned down and left there. No staging, clear message, fast in and out. No staging, not killing his wife, etc. I find it unlikely that if the grudge was against Barry, Honey would have been hurt. No, this was someone who hated them both, and had something to gain only if they were both dead. Hmmm wonder who that could be?

 

[Tighthead]

While of course we can't rule out anything, I find the professional hit from another country theory highly unlikely, because of the staging and highly personal nature the crime appears to be. For instance, a real mob hit in NJ happened as follows: The target was lured out of his home at 9:30pm through a phone call. When he went to his car or his driveway, he was gunned down and left there. No staging, clear message, fast in and out. No staging, not killing his wife, etc. I find it unlikely that if the grudge was against Barry, Honey would have been hurt. No, this was someone who hated them both, and had something to gain only if they were both dead. Hmmm wonder who that could be?

By all accounts that want really a mob hit. It was a weird attack on a mobster by a nutbar.

 

[rickcross]

While of course we can't rule out anything, I find the professional hit from another country theory highly unlikely, because of the staging and highly personal nature the crime appears to be. For instance, a real mob hit in NJ happened as follows: The target was lured out of his home at 9:30pm through a phone call. When he went to his car or his driveway, he was gunned down and left there. No staging, clear message, fast in and out. No staging, not killing his wife, etc. I find it unlikely that if the grudge was against Barry, Honey would have been hurt. No, this was someone who hated them both, and had something to gain only if they were both dead. Hmmm wonder who that could be?

Thats very true, but mafia taking care of mafia is a different situation. This is surly a hired killer who has been given specific instructions and who has been paid a lot of money to do it right.

 

[Kittybunny]

By all accounts that want really a mob hit. It was a weird attack on a mobster by a nutbar.

Wow really? I admit I didn't follow that beyond when it happened. I don't want to derail the thread but I didn't know that.

 

[Kittybunny]

Thats very true, but mafia taking care of mafia is a different situation. This is surly a hired killer who has been given specific instructions and who has been paid a lot of money to do it right.

Again, not ruling out farfetched possibilities because you never can, but as a true crime aficionado of many many years, I tend to think horses when I hear hoofbeats, not zebras. I look close to home, then when those possibilities are ruled out, look elsewhere. Without any visibility into the investigation, of course, it's impossible to determine who has been ruled in or out and you may very well be correct that this is a very unique crime that will never get solved. But if I was a betting woman, I would put my money on possibilities much closer to home.

 

[rickcross]

Again, not ruling out farfetched possibilities because you never can, but as a true crime aficionado of many many years, I tend to think horses when I hear hoofbeats, not zebras. I look close to home, then when those possibilities are ruled out, look elsewhere. Without any visibility into the investigation, of course, it's impossible to determine who has been ruled in or out and you may very well be correct that this is a very unique crime that will never get solved. But if I was a betting woman, I would put my money on possibilities much closer to home.

Believe me, I think the person responsible for this is very close to home. The person that carried it out may be someone very distant.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Believe me, I think the person responsible for this is very close to home. The person that carried it out may be someone very distant.

Do we know the responsible person's initials already ...?

 

[ldlager]

Believe me, I think the person responsible for this is very close to home. The person that carried it out may be someone very distant.

Follow the money?