Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

[Lexiintoronto]

2cents:

Brian Greenspan, lawyer for the Sherman family, said his private investigators have a copy of the video footage and it is "inconclusive" — they cannot determine who the man is, what kind of car it is or the man's exact movements.

"We have always been interested in (the video footage)," Greenspan said. "All I can tell you is what we see, when you try to improve on the very grainy security camera footage it pixelates, we are sort of stuck with the grainy footage."

29 minutes inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home: Who was the visitor?

Bbm

-We had a verified LE here who looked at a photo of the tail end of a minivan and could tell the make, model and year based on the taillights (a unique curve in the lights, iirc). Maybe as the Greenspan team are retired they don’t have access to search the databases.

-The man sounds like a realtor. If so, Realtor and close family friend Judi Gotlieb could confirm that with the Sherman children and Greenspan.

-The Greenspan team must know who would have had access to the home. From there they can eliminate who it might be based on colour and type of vehicle.

-I don’t think it’s someone there to work on the home if Greenspan is not aware of his movements.

To me it sounds like it was someone there to search for the Shermans. LE are protecting this information, likely with good reason.

 

[1&2&3]

I smell a rat! The highly experienced Greenspan and team are either failing in doing their job, which I doubt, or what they discovered, the Sherman children don’t want announced.

JMO

 

[rickcross]

I smell a rat! The highly experienced Greenspan and team are either failing in doing their job, which I doubt, or what they discovered, the Sherman children don’t want announced.

JMO

What exactly are you thinking? I have a hard time believing that an experienced team like Greenspan's would say that the video is too grainy to make an identification, yet TPS seems to have done just that. Greenspans team would undoubtedly have access to anyone that would have had any business at that house. So either, Greenspan is playing stupid and knows exactly who that person is, or Saunders is being untruthful when he says that TPS had identified and spoken to the person.

 

[rickcross]

That said, and thinking about it a little, I have come up with a scenario that might explain it. Perhaps Honey was having an affair. The guy shows up at 9:00 knowing that Barry is at work, and he enters the home. He calls for Honey and gets now response, so he leaves. He tries calling from his car and again gets no response. So he goes in again and takes a cursory look around, again finding nothing. He leaves again, tries yet again to call, then fearing something might be wrong, he enters one last time and finds the bodies. At this point he takes off, not wanting to be involved. When the story breaks, he'd know that it would only be a matter of time before police catch up with him by tracing the missed calls on Honey's phone, so he discretely goes to police and tells them exactly what happened.

In this scenario police would have identified and interviewed the person without having to rely on the grainy footage, and there is no way that Greenspans team would have been aware of the situation.

 

[kiwi50]

What exactly are you thinking? I have a hard time believing that an experienced team like Greenspan's would say that the video is too grainy to make an identification, yet TPS seems to have done just that. Greenspans team would undoubtedly have access to anyone that would have had any business at that house. So either, Greenspan is playing stupid and knows exactly who that person is, or Saunders is being untruthful when he says that TPS had identified and spoken to the person.

Didnt Honey’s personal trainer turn up at the house not long after the bodies were discovered?

 

[rickcross]

Didnt Honey’s personal trainer turn up at the house not long after the bodies were discovered?

Yes, he showed up after the bodies were discovered.

 

[dotr]

Yes, he showed up after the bodies were discovered.

Wonder if he was the same trainer as the dancing guy? rbbm.
Family urges 'thorough' investigation into deaths of Apotex CEO Barry Sherman, wife Honey
"Lights were on inside the home when the bodies were discovered Friday, as police officers worked inside, illuminating what appeared to be a Frida Kahlo canvas.

Speaking to reporters outside the house, police spokesman Constable David Hopkinsonaid police did not believe there was a threat to public safety.

A neighbour said that despite their vast wealth, the Shermans lived a low-key life.

A man who identified himself as a personal trainer arrived at the scene saying he had an appointment to train Ms. Sherman. He asked if he could duck under the police tape to get inside, and was told no. He spoke briefly with officers and left visibly shaken."

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Notice the word “helping” in the article you linked. It’s possible that his help was primarily financial as it still exits through Apotex’s partnership.

I think, BS' hyper intelligence and ambition wouldn't have allowed him to only participate financially. Idk.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think, BS' hyper intelligence and ambition wouldn't have allowed him to only participate financially. Idk.

I don’t know either but considering Apotex had 10,000 employees, as President and CEO I think it would’ve been many years since Barry last worked in the lab. Had he not allowed his business to flourish by stepping back allowing his employees to thrive, Apotex couldn’t have grown to become a multi billion dollar company. As businesses grow over the years what typically happens is technology and new practises and implementations changes all jobs and the creator of the company cannot possibly run a company plus focus on keeping his own practical skills current.

That’s why I have a hard time imagining Barry becoming a one man show at age 75 in developing a pot pill within a partnership of two companies just before his death, if this is speculated as a motive for the murder for both him and his wife.

Neither is medical marijuana new to Canada, for medical purposes it was legalized in 2001.
Cannabis in Canada - Wikipedia

 

[human]

I have no doubt that the area is blanketed with video cameras. There is no way all of those rich people did not have cameras.

I imagine multple cameras captured the car as it drove in that neighborhood

 

[ldlager]

I don’t know either but considering Apotex had 10,000 employees, as President and CEO I think it would’ve been many years since Barry last worked in the lab. Had he not allowed his business to flourish by stepping back allowing his employees to thrive, Apotex couldn’t have grown to become a multi billion dollar company. As businesses grow over the years what typically happens is technology and new practises and implementations changes all jobs and the creator of the company cannot possibly run a company plus focus on keeping his own practical skills current.

That’s why I have a hard time imagining Barry becoming a one man show at age 75 in developing a pot pill within a partnership of two companies just before his death, if this is speculated as a motive for the murder for both him and his wife.

Neither is medical marijuana new to Canada, for medical purposes it was legalized in 2001.
Cannabis in Canada - Wikipedia

It is my understanding, that Barry spent many working hours in the lab, up to the time of his death.
I cannot speak as to whether Barry was personally involved in the actual lab work associated with the so called "pot pill". But given the widespread growth of marijuana production and sales/distribution facilities in Canada, and the general availability of the product, I don't believe IMO that the Shermans were murdered because of any marijuana initiatives that Apotex might have been involved in.

 

[ldlager]

That said, and thinking about it a little, I have come up with a scenario that might explain it. Perhaps Honey was having an affair. The guy shows up at 9:00 knowing that Barry is at work, and he enters the home. He calls for Honey and gets now response, so he leaves. He tries calling from his car and again gets no response. So he goes in again and takes a cursory look around, again finding nothing. He leaves again, tries yet again to call, then fearing something might be wrong, he enters one last time and finds the bodies. At this point he takes off, not wanting to be involved. When the story breaks, he'd know that it would only be a matter of time before police catch up with him by tracing the missed calls on Honey's phone, so he discretely goes to police and tells them exactly what happened.

In this scenario police would have identified and interviewed the person without having to rely on the grainy footage, and there is no way that Greenspans team would have been aware of the situation.

Thanks rickcross, the potential involvement of the trainer (either in the crime or linked to a personal relationship with Honey) was discussed very early on in these threads.
What I find interesting is that people were in the house on the Thursday (if we believe the date of the video) and the Friday (the date the bodies were discovered), yet no one smelled anything? I know this has been discussed before, but from what I have read, dead bodies emit strong odours (sorry to be graphic), and I have read lots of crime books that describe detectives entering a house and immediately knowing from the smell that there is a dead body/bodies in the house. The bodies were in a pool area which may have been humid/moist, which presumably would have aided decomposition. Maybe the house was too big, or the pool area was vented outside?
I don't mean to retread over old discussions, but I do find it strange.

 

[tarabull]

Related? speculation.
New York accuses opioid maker Purdue of illegal fund transfers to Sackler family | CBC News
Mar 29, 2019

"Purdue Pharma LP fraudulently transferred funds to members of the wealthy Sackler family who control the OxyContin maker despite knowing it faced major liabilities that had made it already insolvent, New York's attorney general alleged.

Letitia James made the claims Thursday in a revised lawsuit already pending against Purdue over its role in the opioid epidemic that added members of the Sackler family and other drug manufacturers and distributors as defendants.

The lawsuit alleged Purdue and other manufacturers engaged in deceptive marketing that downplayed the dangers of the addictive painkillers and accused distributors of failing to detect the diversion of the drugs for illicit purposes.

"As the Sackler family and the other defendants grew richer, New Yorkers' health grew poorer and our state was left to foot the bill," James said in a statement.

The revised lawsuit also added as defendants units of opioid manufacturers Johnson & Johnson, Endo International Plc, Teva Pharmaceutical Industries Ltd and distributors McKesson Corp, Cardinal Health Inc and AmerisourceBergen Corp."
Aug 29 2018
B.C. first government in Canada to sue drug companies over opioids
"The B.C. government alleges that opioid manufacturers marketed and promoted the drugs in Canada as less addictive than was actually known to them, and for conditions the manufacturers knew the drugs were not effective in treating. Such marketing and promotion, the province asserts, resulted in an increase in prescription and use of all opioids.

Other drug manufacturers named in the suit include Apotex Inc., Janssen Inc., Mylan N.V., Ranbaxy Pharmaceuticals Canada Inc., Sandoz Canada Inc., Teva Pharmaceutical Industries Inc. and Valeant Canada LP."
rbbm.

Another recent headline, FWIW...
The family behind OxyContin looked into profiting from solving the crisis they helped cause

 

[rickcross]

Thanks rickcross, the potential involvement of the trainer (either in the crime or linked to a personal relationship with Honey) was discussed very early on in these threads.
What I find interesting is that people were in the house on the Thursday (if we believe the date of the video) and the Friday (the date the bodies were discovered), yet no one smelled anything? I know this has been discussed before, but from what I have read, dead bodies emit strong odours (sorry to be graphic), and I have read lots of crime books that describe detectives entering a house and immediately knowing from the smell that there is a dead body/bodies in the house. The bodies were in a pool area which may have been humid/moist, which presumably would have aided decomposition. Maybe the house was too big, or the pool area was vented outside?
I don't mean to retread over old discussions, but I do find it strange.

From what I understand the pool really wasn't being used and was covered. Possibly they stopped heating it and the room itself might have been at a cooler temperature? I don't think that the bodies would have decomposed to the point of starting to smell, even by Friday, but that's just conjecture. But certainly a pool room, if it were being used, would be very humid, so it would definitely have to be vented outdoors.

 

[rickcross]

I have no doubt that the area is blanketed with video cameras. There is no way all of those rich people did not have cameras.

I imagine multple cameras captured the car as it drove in that neighborhood

I'm surprised the Shermans did not have video cameras.

 

[WINDSOR]

That said, and thinking about it a little, I have come up with a scenario that might explain it. Perhaps Honey was having an affair. The guy shows up at 9:00 knowing that Barry is at work, and he enters the home. He calls for Honey and gets now response, so he leaves. He tries calling from his car and again gets no response. So he goes in again and takes a cursory look around, again finding nothing. He leaves again, tries yet again to call, then fearing something might be wrong, he enters one last time and finds the bodies. At this point he takes off, not wanting to be involved. When the story breaks, he'd know that it would only be a matter of time before police catch up with him by tracing the missed calls on Honey's phone, so he discretely goes to police and tells them exactly what happened.

In this scenario police would have identified and interviewed the person without having to rely on the grainy footage, and there is no way that Greenspans team would have been aware of the situation.

Interesting scenario. Being a quite naive about these things, I ask is it likely for women in their late sixties-early seventies to have affairs? Secondly if the male in question is having an affair with Honey and discovers her dead and hopefully had some emotional feeling for her, would he not call 911 immediately? Finally if he has no involvement with her death, would he not think that not reporting it immediately would place suspicion on himself?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Thanks rickcross, the potential involvement of the trainer (either in the crime or linked to a personal relationship with Honey) was discussed very early on in these threads.
What I find interesting is that people were in the house on the Thursday (if we believe the date of the video) and the Friday (the date the bodies were discovered), yet no one smelled anything? I know this has been discussed before, but from what I have read, dead bodies emit strong odours (sorry to be graphic), and I have read lots of crime books that describe detectives entering a house and immediately knowing from the smell that there is a dead body/bodies in the house. The bodies were in a pool area which may have been humid/moist, which presumably would have aided decomposition. Maybe the house was too big, or the pool area was vented outside?
I don't mean to retread over old discussions, but I do find it strange.

In the real estate photos, there were blue covers on the pool, so it appears it was full of water.



The room temperature in a pool room has to be a few degrees higher than the water to minimize evaporation.

5 important factors to operating conditions for indoor pools

My guess is the room temperature may have been 26-30.

I feel bad saying this now, but prior to the murders, that pool area would have been a great selling feature. : ( I’d think the pool room would be kept warm and functional for showings.

I think there may have been an odour. But the double-doors that were likely well sealed may have kept the smells contained in the room. And if it was a chlorine pool that might mask the smell.

In my work treating wounds (lab tech) I know the dead tissue smell. Once you’ve smelled it and identified it, you can detect it from a distance. It’s unique and stomach-churning.

The people inside the home may have smelled something ‘off’, but they may not have had any knowledge or experience in identifying the smell.

 

[rickcross]

Interesting scenario. Being a quite naive about these things, I ask is it likely for women in their late sixties-early seventies to have affairs? Secondly if the male in question is having an affair with Honey and discovers her dead and hopefully had some emotional feeling for her, would he not call 911 immediately? Finally if he has no involvement with her death, would he not think that not reporting it immediately would place suspicion on himself?

I do not see Barry & Honey being a perfect match. He's old, ugly and seems only concerned about work. She seems to be more vibrant and far more social. I would be very surprised if she wasn't seeking companionship elsewhere. Now if this person happened to be married as well, I certainly wouldn't blame him for getting out of there as soon as possible. I imagine that after a day or so he would have come to his senses and figured it was better to go to police than to have them knock on his front door.

 

[rickcross]

In the real estate photos, there were blue covers on the pool, so it appears it was full of water.

View attachment 177625

The room temperature in a pool room has to be a few degrees higher than the water to minimize evaporation.

5 important factors to operating conditions for indoor pools

My guess is the room temperature may have been 26-30.

I feel bad saying this now, but prior to the murders, that pool area would have been a great selling feature. : ( I’d think the pool room would be kept warm and functional for showings.

I think there may have been an odour. But the double-doors that were likely well sealed may have kept the smells contained in the room. And if it was a chlorine pool that might mask the smell.

In my work treating wounds (lab tech) I know the dead tissue smell. Once you’ve smelled it and identified it, you can detect it from a distance. It’s unique and stomach-churning.

The people inside the home may have smelled something ‘off’, but they may not have had any knowledge or experience in identifying the smell.

If the pool was not being used it would probably have been below room temperature. No need to have it functional, not like a potential buyer would want to go for a swim. I certainly don't think the temperature would have been anywhere near what you speculate. But thats just conjecture on my part.

But I think you are probably right about the area being sealed, it would have to be or the house would smell like a YMCA.

 

[MistyWaters]

On the mystery man and my theory, if the release of this information was for a reason. This scenario involves TPS and the PI team working together rather than engaged in an adversarial relationship as has been promoted through the media....

The PI team contacts the man in the “grainy” video because they were tipped off by TPS. “No, no, that’s not me” he says he was never anywhere near the Sherman house. The PI team leave it at that and pass on the info to TPS.

TPS then contact the same person. Maybe this time TPS tosses in cellphone tower pings, a licence plate or something. So the man admits going to the Sherman home that Thursday, yes it’s him in that video but claims no involvement in the Sherman murders and was there for a reason that didn’t involve looking into the poolroom.

Months go by.....then a neighbour blabs about this same video.

Might the mystery man be somewhat aggravated to observe 11th hour attention surfacing about this video, especially if he wasn’t entirely truthful to both the PI team and TPS at the onset? IMO it reminds me of shaking the tree, what police are known to do while actively working on a case - just to remind a suspect that he hadn’t been forgotten.