Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #13

[Lexiintoronto]

I haven't posted here recently but read the new posts daily. I find I am in agreement with most of InspectorLoneRanger's opinions especially in regards to JS.

Because right from the first day I watched video of JS giving the eulogy I felt something was not right ... there is a darkness about him .... no feelings .... no emotion ... a coldness and a darkness radiate from his words and body language.

I beat myself up for thinking in such a manner , after all he was (supposedly) grieving , his parents had suddenly been taken away .... and for most people a public eulogy is never an easy thing to do .

I kept my nagging and unpleasant opinions about JS to myself until I saw InspectorLoneRanger's hunches are identical to mine .... practically word for word ... not to mention journalist KD seems to allude to much the same thing .

My recent thinking is fueled by the fact JS was adopted .... many adopted children in harmonious families seldom have any issues but I think it is fair to say JS , BS & HS were the opposite of a harmonious unit .

JS apparently hated his adoptive mother and even tried to remove his adoptive father from the leadership of a huge and and successful business.

No love there ..... only coldness and darkness , and self serving interests that needed some obstacles removed

I had the same impression of JS that you hold. But I’m not sure if my impression is coloured by KD’s negative stories about him, and we haven’t heard his side of the story.

The issue here on this thread, IMO, is that it’s not a verifiable journalist, insider or expert stating things as fact. Very serious allegations against JS have been made with nothing to support them. Jmo

There’s a part in the SCC documents where the Estate speaks to the one-sided nature of KD’s reporting (bbm) that gave me pause:

115. Mr. Donovan has attempted to adduce as fresh evidence on this appeal certain self-authored news articles which he claims are indicative of “potential contentious issues” in respect of the Shermans’ estates. These articles are irrelevant, they are not credible, and they should not be admitted. Mr. Donovan cannot create a controversy where one does not exist. He should not be permitted to admit as evidence self-authored articles based on unverified information and hearsay provided by unidentified sources in a transparent effort to transform the nature of the court files at issue. Moreover, the simple possibility that a litigious controversy may arise (which has not been established by Mr. Donovan in any event) does not transform the administrative and non-litigious nature if the present matter.

I’d like to hear JS’s side to be fair, or at least link ‘facts’ back to MSM who have credentials and their reputation we can choose to trust or not trust.

 

[ldlager]

Wouldn't one consider being born to a couple via surrogate mother, is different than just plain everyday 'adoption'? We're not talking about a kid who lived in turmoil in his early years who was adopted into the S family at age 3 or something.. we're talking about a newborn who was immediately placed with the 'parents', Barry and Honey. I'm thinking if it was such a horrendous experience for JS, he and his husband wouldn't have been trying to do the same thing in their own relationship.

I personally don't believe any of that has anything to do with this. Lots of 'rich kids' born into wealth biologically or by adoption, have a sense of entitlement, and it seems JS may be one of the more severely affected (based on my opinion only, of the emails trying to oust his father out of his own company, saying he was incompetent). We've been told that HS was stricter and wanted the kids to earn their way, while BS was more laid back and 'giving'. If the poor little rich kid didn't get his way with mom, I could see someone like JS having hateful and spiteful feelings, especially when perhaps more immature. One would expect that he may have been more grown up by December 2017, but who knows. jmo.

RBBM. Who knows? Well i strongly believe Barry and Honey both knew very well

 

[dotr]

For all we know, JS, KW and FD'A ect. ect, could all have been setup to be fall guys by the true perp/s, imo, speculation.

 

[InspectorLoneRanger]

I haven't posted here recently but read the new posts daily. I find I am in agreement with most of InspectorLoneRanger's opinions especially in regards to JS.

Because right from the first day I watched video of JS giving the eulogy I felt something was not right ... there is a darkness about him .... no feelings .... no emotion ... a coldness and a darkness radiate from his words and body language.

I beat myself up for thinking in such a manner , after all he was (supposedly) grieving , his parents had suddenly been taken away .... and for most people a public eulogy is never an easy thing to do .

I kept my nagging and unpleasant opinions about JS to myself until I saw InspectorLoneRanger's hunches are identical to mine .... practically word for word ... not to mention journalist KD seems to allude to much the same thing .

My recent thinking is fueled by the fact JS was adopted .... many adopted children in harmonious families seldom have any issues but I think it is fair to say JS , BS & HS were the opposite of a harmonious unit .

JS apparently hated his adoptive mother and even tried to remove his adoptive father from the leadership of a huge and and successful business.

No love there ..... only coldness and darkness , and self serving interests that needed some obstacles removed

Thank you & God Bless you for the courage to speak up.

Everyone is here because they are upset that 2 people were killed and the crime has gone unsolved thus far. It's a perversion of Justice and it offends the larger part of society.

I only post the Truth.

Your impressions about Jon are correct. K/D wrote about a time where a young Jon grabbed $1000's of dollars from Barry's wallet and donated it at school to the surprise of everyone. Overall he was a weird kid. He never had friends except for Adam Paulin who also became his boyfriend and partner-in-crime. After finishing school in NY Jon returned to Canada and threw himself into the gay party scene. As KD wrote in his book Jon had Barry buy houses for some of his boyfriends. The houses were used as party houses - so much so that KD reports that the house required extensive upkeep and renovations due to all the parties. Could you imagine having a conversation with either your mother or father "Hey Folks - I just met this beefcake at Remingtons for S.A.M. He says he play catch with me if I give him 14 million dollars to buy a house. whaddaya say?" Is it just me or does this sound crazy?????

 

[ldlager]

Wouldn't one consider being born to a couple via surrogate mother, is different than just plain everyday 'adoption'? We're not talking about a kid who lived in turmoil in his early years who was adopted into the S family at age 3 or something.. we're talking about a newborn who was immediately placed with the 'parents', Barry and Honey. I'm thinking if it was such a horrendous experience for JS, he and his husband wouldn't have been trying to do the same thing in their own relationship.

I personally don't believe any of that has anything to do with this. Lots of 'rich kids' born into wealth biologically or by adoption, have a sense of entitlement, and it seems JS may be one of the more severely affected (based on my opinion only, of the emails trying to oust his father out of his own company, saying he was incompetent). We've been told that HS was stricter and wanted the kids to earn their way, while BS was more laid back and 'giving'. If the poor little rich kid didn't get his way with mom, I could see someone like JS having hateful and spiteful feelings, especially when perhaps more immature. One would expect that he may have been more grown up by December 2017, but who knows. jmo.

blank

 

[MistyWaters]

Buddy, I could have used your help in law school. Presentation is my Achilles heel.

I really hope that the SCC webcasts the case. It's all about the filings but it's also all about the presentation. Donavan and his legal team are well mannered. The legal team for the Estate not so much. Anything can happen but on the law, as well as the balance of probabilities the open court principles should win out.

Did law school teach you anything about sealing orders?

I would’ve been very surprised if the upcoming SCC hearing - Sherman Estate v. Donovan were webcast live considering a sealing order is presently in place. That’s also the reason some of the information was redacted from the filings (earlier links which you posted).

Status - Scheduled for 9:30 a.m.
(Sealing order)
(Certain information not available to the public)
Will not be webcast live (although the footnote indicates the webcast may be available at a future date) - presumably dependant upon the outcome of the hearing.

Supreme Court of Canada - Scheduled Hearings

 

[InspectorLoneRanger]

Did law school teach you anything about sealing orders?

I would’ve been very surprised if the upcoming SCC hearing - Sherman Estate v. Donovan were webcast live considering a sealing order is presently in place. That’s also the reason some of the information was redacted from the filings (earlier links which you posted).

Status - Scheduled for 9:30 a.m.
(Sealing order)
(Certain information not available to the public)
Will not be webcast live (although the footnote indicates the webcast may be available at a future date) - presumably dependant upon the outcome of the hearing.

Supreme Court of Canada - Scheduled Hearings

Dear MistyWaters

Please check out the link for the SCC.

As per the footnotes: May be shown at a later date.

As per policy of the SCC, if the ruling goes in favor of Donovan the sealing order will be removed and the webcast will become available.

Please, we need not agree but no need to be disagreeable. If anything I say is unclear it's ok to ask for clairification politely.

Supreme Court of Canada - Scheduled Hearings

Scheduled Hearings for the month of March 2020
Tab list

• March

Filter items:
Date Case Name Status Webcast
2020-03-24 Attorney General for Saskatchewan v. Attorney General of Canada (Saskatchewan) (Civil) (As of Right) 38663 Scheduled for 9:30 a.m. Will be webcast live
2020-03-25 Attorney General of Ontario v. Attorney General of Canada (Ontario) (Civil) (As of Right) 38781 Scheduled for 9:30 a.m. Will be webcast live
2020-03-26 Estate of Bernard Sherman and the Trustees of the Estate, et al. v. Kevin Donovan (Ontario) (Civil) (By Leave) 38695 Scheduled for 9:30 a.m.
(Sealing order)
(Certain information not available to the public) Will not be webcast liveFootnote1

Footnotes
Footnote
Webcast may be available at a later date. For more information, please contact the Registry at 1-844-365-9662.

 

[InspectorLoneRanger]

For all we know, JS, KW and FD'A ect. ect, could all have been setup to be fall guys by the true perp/s, imo, speculation.

JS is the only person going around and pointing fingers.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I’m not sure if this has been posted previously. Dr. C. Ferguson is a criminologist an expert on crime scene staging. One of her papers on the topic:
Getting Away with Murder: An Examination of Detected Homicides Staged as Suicides by Claire Ferguson, Wayne Petherick :: SSRN

Also, I cannot find the Shermans on the TPS website again.
Toronto Police Service :: To Serve and Protect

ETA: found them (it still says police responded 12:46)Homicide #65/2017

 

[MistyWaters]

JS is the only person going around and pointing fingers.

I don’t recall that JS has ever been interviewed? Before I jump on the band-wagon, I’d want to know who’s the source of this information and KD hasn’t said.....one reason I’m sceptical. Neither am I noticing any of the “accused” filing defamation suits against JS....which leads me to believe his supposed accusations cannot be proven to have occurred.

ETA - But I recall it said that KD wrote in his book that KW accused his brother? Is that going around pointing fingers as well or does it only reflect badly on JS, if the anonymous source is truthful?

 

[MistyWaters]

Dear MistyWaters

Please check out the link for the SCC.

As per the footnotes: May be shown at a later date.

As per policy of the SCC, if the ruling goes in favor of Donovan the sealing order will be removed and the webcast will become available.

Please, we need not agree but no need to be disagreeable. If anything I say is unclear it's ok to ask for clairification politely.

Supreme Court of Canada - Scheduled Hearings


Footnotes
Footnote
Webcast may be available at a later date. For more information, please contact the Registry at 1-844-365-9662.

Yes indeed, I checked the link. That was the reason I added it to my post. It does not state the hearing will be webcast, unlike others which are broadcast live. Whether it will be provided at a later date or not is dependant on the word “may”.

 

[InspectorLoneRanger]

I don’t recall that JS has ever been interviewed? Before I jump on the band-wagon, I’d want to know who’s the source of this information and KD hasn’t said.....one reason I’m sceptical. Neither am I noticing any of the “accused” filing defamation suits against JS....which leads me to believe his supposed accusations cannot be proven to have occurred.

ETA - But I recall it said that KD wrote in his book that KW accused his brother? Is that going around pointing fingers as well or does it only reflect badly on JS, if the anonymous source is truthful?

KD wrote that he has his brother if he did it and well as KD's girlfriend called him and asked him if he did it. IMO that's a lot different than running around and telling people that JK, KD, and FDA are responsible. JS barred FDA from the funeral instructing JK to deliver the news.

 

[ldlager]

I’m not sure if this has been posted previously. Dr. C. Ferguson is a criminologist an expert on crime scene staging. One of her papers on the topic:
Getting Away with Murder: An Examination of Detected Homicides Staged as Suicides by Claire Ferguson, Wayne Petherick :: SSRN

Also, I cannot find the Shermans on the TPS website again.
Toronto Police Service :: To Serve and Protect

ETA: found them (it still says police responded 12:46)Homicide #65/2017

Thank you Lexi. It is unbelievable to me that tps still has this time reported incorrectly. Wouldn’t pointing out such errors be pure gold for a defence lawyer?
Or is the tps site accurate, and all other reporting wrong? Could it have really taken almost 3 hours to call the police?

 

[Sillybilly]

If anyone has received any inappropriate communications at all, please private message any Mod or Admin.

Thanks.

 

[nuff]

deleted

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Thank you Lexi. It is unbelievable to me that tps still has this time reported incorrectly. Wouldn’t pointing out such errors be pure gold for a defence lawyer?
Or is the tps site accurate, and all other reporting wrong? Could it have really taken almost 3 hours to call the police?

Gomes said TPS and first responders were called at 11:46.

The scene was staged, maybe the TPS is putting out incorrect details to annoy the killer into contacting them or the media to correct the errors?

 

[Satchie]

Gomes said TPS and first responders were called at 11:46.

The scene was staged, maybe the TPS is putting out incorrect details to annoy the killer into contacting them or the media to correct the errors?

I think what police do or don't say and when they might use trickery, is a pretty subtle business, and wouldn't be as, shall I say, crude as that.
I'd say for sure they'll have tried to avoid releasing details, police always do that so they can convict anyone who knows those details.
Unfortunately the witnesses and family (including Greenspan) have apparently released many details, either to the media or to KD. Police won't confirm or deny those details. But as to putting false details out, I think any willingness to outright lie about forensics might undermine the ability of police to gain a conviction, because the defense would use it to challenge their case in court.
However, they will use deceit to go undercover, to elicit information or a confession, or plant something unrelated to the crime scene and spy on people's reactions - like perhaps planting rumours just to watch or listen to what a suspect or conspirators say or do. But they'd be very cautious, so as not to back themselves into a corner and undermine future strategies. They are playing a long game, and are much more patient than we are.

For example, in a case I recently heard about, police installed a mysterious memorial with a hidden camera, just to see who was interested enough in the victim to go look at it.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Very interesting, thanks for posting.
The Factum is very persuasive and very well written (NB- I am not a lawyer). But through reading all the various legal filings in this case, 2 questions keep coming to my mind:
1) If the names , addresses, occupations, family relationships, etc. of the Trustees and the adult Sherman children (thought to be the beneficiaries) are already public knowledge via other documents and media reporting (and googling if one was really interested) , what is it in those estate documents that the family (some or all) are trying so hard to keep from being made public?
2) I am not a lawyer ("although I play one on tv"- LOL), but after reading the filings from both sides, this case seems to me IMO to be a slam dunk for Donovan. The arguments in favour of unsealing these files seem obvious to me, and IMO far outweigh the arguments of the Estate. And yet, the SCC agreed to hear the case. I don't understand this, and so I can't help but wonder if connections, money, or influence are driving this decision. I hate to think that, but I don't see any rationale for the SCC to accept this case ahead of so many others that they just dont have time for.
MOO

Is this similar to a Roe vs Wade landmark USSC decision on abortion being tested? Only it’s the Sierra Club Test at issue. If Kevin Donovan loses, that might strike a blow to the SCT ruling?

 

[MistyWaters]

Is this similar to a Roe vs Wade landmark USSC decision on abortion being tested? Only it’s the Sierra Club Test at issue. If Kevin Donovan loses, that might strike a blow to the SCT ruling?

Yes it appears much like all cases heard by the SCC, it’s the Sierra Club ruling that’s forefront and centre of the case. The Sherman Estate believes it should apply with minor modifications in the order of the test #1 and #2, whereas KD doesn’t think it should apply at all. In the area of privacy, if KD wins it would strike a blow to the SCT ruling which is why others stakeholders have become involved. The argument has little to do directly with the Sherman Estate or the media. This is my take on it, not saying I’m right.

But if I were to stake a bet, I’d place it on the side of the Sherman Estate for a couple of reasons. The sealing of the Estate file was never permanent and Canada is a country with privacy legislation is already heavily legislated in virtually every aspect of our lives.

It’s rather ironic to consider KD is able to report on the Sherman case, keeping his sources private. And if it were a slam dunk for KD, the SCC wouldn’t have granted leave for appeal.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

News Release - SCC Cases (Lexum)
“The Supreme Court of Canada is closely monitoring the advice of public health officials with respect to COVID-19 and is working with various stakeholders in the justice system to address the issues arising out of this exceptional situation.

I would like to inform you of the following pro-active and preventative measures the Court is taking in order to protect participants in the justice system and to reduce the spread of COVID-19. These measures are designed to balance the need to protect the health and safety of all with the need to maintain judicial operations.

The hearings scheduled for March 24, 25 and 26, 2020, in the cases of Attorney General of Saskatchewan v. Attorney General of Canada (38663), Attorney General of Ontario v. Attorney General of Canada (38781) and Estate of Bernard Sherman v. Kevin Donovan (38695) are rescheduled, tentatively, to the month of June 2020. All other currently scheduled hearings remain on the agenda until further notice.....”