Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #13

[casesensitive]

This is a list of the regular"service providers" noted in KD's book, as well as in media articles.

Female: personal trainer (and self-professed family friend) came Mondays and Wednesdays.
Barry workout 8:30-9:30 am
Honey " 9:30-11:30 am

Female: Massage therapist came Wednesdays.
Honey's therapy 11:30 am-2:30 pm

Female: housekeeper
Reported as coming semi-weekly (including Fridays) in KD's articles, reported as coming once a week in his book.

Female: Plant care and watering
Reported as coming each Friday morning.

Random: Two workmen were present Wednesday morning performing ceiling repairs and paint touch ups.

Random: E.S., Sherman's real estate agent was at the house on Wednesday morning, preparing for a return visit of a couple who had visited the home a couple of days earlier.

I haven't yet found any reference to who this male is who showed up on that Friday.
"A man who identified himself as a personal trainer arrived at the scene saying he had an appointment to train Ms. Sherman. He asked if he could duck under the police tape to get inside, and was told no. He spoke briefly with officers and left visibly shaken."

Billionaire Apotex founder Barry Sherman and wife found dead in Toronto home

How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide | The Star

 

[ldlager]

The Star article says HS met the "service provider" informant at Yonge & St. Clair, because she had just updated her will - and I assumed that meant the law office was close by. The firm listed as the Sherman's estate lawyer is on Wellington St., nowhere near there. So, perhaps HS had made her will with a different law firm, unbeknownst to the estate lawyer and maybe even her spouse, and then updated it.

Yes Davies ward and beck’s offices are downtown. I thought the same thing about the lawyer, but then I assumed that the service provider person she was meeting was located around Yonge and st Clair, and Hs was simply picking them up on honeys way home.

Btw, not to sound sexist, but my assumption is that this service provider is a woman, since Hs wanted them to accompany her to the grocery store on the way. Sounds like something that a woman would be more likely to do with another woman- fwiw, jmo.

 

[ldlager]

Do lawyers keep copies of wills?

Yes they do. But as discussed in previous threads having a copy doesn’t provide any assurance that the person hasn’t revoked it and/or destroyed the original.

 

[deugirtni]

In the article Donovan says he will 'refer' to this person as a service provider. To me, that doesn't mean that this person was in fact a service provider. This person wanted anonymity, so hopefully Donovan wouldn't have called them what exactly they were, while meanwhile laying out the various service providers in his book and articles. imo.

 

[deugirtni]

What would happen in legal terms if H had previously had a Will prepared by the 'usual law firm' which the family always used for estate matters, and they held the original. But then H decides in Late November 2017 to get her own independent lawyer and seek independent legal advice and has her Will redone with or without telling her family she'd done so. H keeps the original and a copy is left at the law office of this new lawyer. After the deaths no Will is found inside the home anywhere, and so it's presumed that the older Will is still in effect... until this 'new' lawyer comes forward with the copy of the new Will.. What then? If things had changed substantially in the Will from the one to the other.. ?? Also, a lawyer holding a 'copy' of a Will in his office.. wouldn't he make it a true and legal signed and certified copy, in case something like this might happen (not murders, but say H died or lost the original)?

 

[1&2&3]

Does the will with the newest date become the ruling will to follow?

I could see HS going to another lawyer to change her will to possibly add her sister. Using the family lawyer, word may leak back to BS and that is the last person she wanted to know about it. IMO.

The family lawyer was probably in close contact with BS, or someone from his office, so it might naturally come out about HS being in the office, etc.

 

[dotr]

Watch the video: What happened inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home before they were murdered | The Star

Dec 12, 2019

 

[ldlager]

What would happen in legal terms if H had previously had a Will prepared by the 'usual law firm' which the family always used for estate matters, and they held the original. But then H decides in Late November 2017 to get her own independent lawyer and seek independent legal advice and has her Will redone with or without telling her family she'd done so. H keeps the original and a copy is left at the law office of this new lawyer. After the deaths no Will is found inside the home anywhere, and so it's presumed that the older Will is still in effect... until this 'new' lawyer comes forward with the copy of the new Will.. What then? If things had changed substantially in the Will from the one to the other.. ?? Also, a lawyer holding a 'copy' of a Will in his office.. wouldn't he make it a true and legal signed and certified copy, in case something like this might happen (not murders, but say H died or lost the original)?

I think that without the original will, a lawyer holding a copy would never know that the will hadn’t been changed yet again. So in your example, the new lawyer may not have the most current will, since Hs could have rewritten her will yet again after this second Will was written. Perhaps tighthead or misty or others here have more information/knowledge than me.

 

[human]

Yes they do. But as discussed in previous threads having a copy doesn’t provide any assurance that the person hasn’t revoked it and/or destroyed the original.

This will would be pretty close to the murder time

 

[Sphinx]

This will would be pretty close to the murder time

Shortly before she was murdered, Honey uncharacteristically missed an important charity meeting, and said she was dealing with " family stuff ". Perhaps she was changing her will at the same time due to conflict with some family member or members.

The murderer may not have known that Honey actually went through with the changes, and signed a new will, since it seems she used a new lawyer perhaps unknown to Barry, and the family. I think that is why the estate information is sealed by a judge. Her will may tell a story about who is disinherited, or receives much less than in prior wills, and that someone like her sister Mary, may inherit the 500 or so million that she was promised. A great deal may also be left to charity.

Toronto police detectives may not have enough to arrest a suspect yet, and that is why they are gathering all the electronic information looking for clues, and a digital/paper trail. I suspect this is all about " follow the money", and a possible coup attempt by someone in the family, or those who are close business associates in some way, who wanted to benefit financially, but were also very bitter and wanted revenge.

The staging of the bodies may have actually been a failed attempt to make it look like a murder/suicide, so that no real investigation would take place.

IMO

 

[kiwi50]

Wednesdays must have been busy for Honey two hours with personal trainer, then straight into three hours massage therapy.
Barry didnt strike me as the kind of guy who would have a personal trainer, especially when it took time away from work.

 

[casesensitive]

Wednesdays must have been busy for Honey two hours with personal trainer, then straight into three hours massage therapy.
Barry didnt strike me as the kind of guy who would have a personal trainer, especially when it took time away from work.

Their personal trainer said Barry wasn't an eager participant and only did it because Honey wanted him to. (per KD's book). Barry usually worked at Apotex from 10am to 8pm.

 

[human]

I really want to know how the Facetime would work. I use it but I have to have the number ( I have the numbers on the Facetime page on my iPad) I cannot randomly call anyone without their info.

So the caller would have to use either the email or the phone number to access the realtor. I would think it would show up on the Facetime log.

where is that info stored? Did the realtor keep the number? I would guess that she would because it may be a potential client.

does a Facetime caller have to have an Apple product? Apple products have serial numbers.

Can LE get the info and have access to a serial number from the call ? Even if the phone was sold, the buyer would show up

 

[Tobiano8th]

i haven't read all the underlying newspaper articles but my sense is people are overestimating the possibility HS used a brand new legal relationship to do this will. i read the suggesting that she was near forest hill and had just been at her lawyer as not being in downtown T.O.. but in the middle of the day, downtown to forest hill is nothing at all. and she might have met the downtown lawyer uptown

i see the comment that HS had missed a meeting due to "family stuff". i had thought that was the wording too. but it wasn't. her wording was way more generic, like "dealing with stuff"

FYI, i see warmington (name?), man about town for toronto sun, talked to neighbour who mentions 1) H and B got along great, 2) the sherman house had been robbed recently through the skylight, 3) the whole sherman/apotex/haiti/"you know who" relationship. and the bizarre suicide within days of a physican in new york who had been involved in that haiti situation

donovan has said that the clinton/haiti/sherman murder stuff is ludicrious, which is my opinion too. but that new york suicide is bizarre and very timely in relation to shermans.

 

[Tobiano8th]

no expert, but pretty sure HS will would stand if she had done it with another law firm very late in her life. she seems like she was of sane mind.

makes me wonder of the timing of HS seemingly clearly being killed first...... although i've seen the informed comment here that it wouldn't matter with them killed so close together.

 

[Tobiano8th]

warmington also said the investigation is very active right now

 

[deugirtni]

no expert, but pretty sure HS will would stand if she had done it with another law firm very late in her life. she seems like she was of sane mind.

makes me wonder of the timing of HS seemingly clearly being killed first...... although i've seen the informed comment here that it wouldn't matter with them killed so close together.

How could it *not* matter, if their Wills may have been vastly different?

 

[Tobiano8th]

as i said, i'm no expert but i think there may be a "small time window" exemption due partially to situations like this.

someone who seemed informed mentioned one month as the threshold. not sure if that was generic or ontario.. and that's just my memory

 

[Tobiano8th]

Uniform Simultaneous Death Act - Wikipedia

not sure what some of that means......

if they died about the same time, then i'm guessing (only guessing) that BS and HS individual assets would go according to their wills. and then don't know about specific community property...... but i don't think there'd be any determination that HS was entitled to 50% of Apotex. and then it would go that way.

so someone wanting HS to die first so that she doesn't give the entire fortune away (as a hypothetical) probably achieves the equivilent as i'm thinking most of the valuable assets were in BS name/possession/etc.

 

[Tobiano8th]

sorry, i meant to post this excerpt. and this is USA law, or at least many states. no idea on canada

The Act specifies that, if two or more people die within 120 hours of one another, and no will or other document provides for this situation explicitly, each is considered to have predeceased the others. However, the Act contains a clause that states if the end result would be an intestate estate escheating to the state, the 120-hour rule is not to be applied.