Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #14

[dotr]

Based on the book and more recent reports about the S children, this was and is a highly dysfunctional family. Not strange they "all fell apart." Do we know if JS and his spouse ever had their surrogate child, BTW?

2017 rbbm.
LEVY: Mourning billionaire philanthropists Barry and Honey Sherman | Toronto Sun
“My parents were the glue that kept us all together,” he said.
You could hear a pin drop as he spoke of how his dad had helped him and his husband, Fred, “through the long and expensive path of surrogacy” and of his mom’s determination to perform in a Dancing with the Stars fundraiser for the Baycrest Foundation even though she reminded him of a “bionic woman” with so many replacement parts.''

On an another note.
''The Sherman Billionaires Murder and the Open Court Principle in Canada''
•Dec 15, 2020

 

[deugirtni]

Based on the book and more recent reports about the S children, this was and is a highly dysfunctional family. Not strange they "all fell apart." Do we know if JS and his spouse ever had their surrogate child, BTW?

From KD's ebook (page 251):
Jonathon and his husband, Fred, were looking into surrogacy with the aim of having two boys, something that eventually happened in June 2019.

 

[deugirtni]

I think we can all agree that Barry and Honey deaths were horrific and over the top. After M/S was ruled out, the manner of their deaths would be deemed a crime of passion ( Mike Arntfield stated this at K. Winter's polygraph test, and most criminologists' statistics bear this out, and police take this info seriously).

There is no doubt in my mind that this was crime of passion. But the question remains, was the killer known to the Shermans, and did the killer act out and kill B and H that night in a fit of rage, or did the killer hire a hitman and tell him to follow the horrific instructions on how to kill them. It is a question of one or the other, and both could be deemed a crime of passion.

I still can't comprehend how this was initially seen as a M/S crime scene by LE, but I trust that they have investigated every person who had a motive that could have resulted in a crime of passion. I'm sure their investigation has extended to the possibility of hitmen.

I noted that TPS and Joe Warmington of the Toronto Sun have both extended warm thoughts to the Sherman kids on the third anniversary of their parent's death. Having Joe chime in seems to be a sign of his support of all the kid's innocence in the murders. I can appreciate where he is coming from. No family member should be accused in the public forum. TPS looks after that.

I think you might be mixing up 'personal' with 'crime of passion'. Crime of passion is normally defined as someone snapping in a moment of pain, fury, whatever, and committing murder. Normally that is a second degree murder charge, and there is no planning involved. To plan it and/or to hire hitmen is the opposite. However, I believe Arntfield was describing strangulation as up close and personal.. anger, etc. We don't know yet whether this crime was committed in a moment of rage/hurt without preplanning, or whether it was planned, but to me, the thing that could be agreed upon is that it was 'personal', as opposed to being a crime of passion. imo.

 

[MistyWaters]

Based on the book and more recent reports about the S children, this was and is a highly dysfunctional family. Not strange they "all fell apart." Do we know if JS and his spouse ever had their surrogate child, BTW?

Was and is a highly dysfunctional family, why do you say that?

 

[AddyFinch]

Do we know if JS and his spouse ever had their surrogate child, BTW?

I think I read yes one, but maybe two?

 

[taylorss]

was the killer known to the Shermans, and did the killer act out and kill B and H that night in a fit of rage, or did the killer hire a hitman and tell him to follow the horrific instructions on how to kill them. ... I still can't comprehend how this was initially seen as a M/S crime scene by LE,
.

I’ve said this before here esp back at the start .... but I never believed they really thought it was M/S.

I’d vote a hitman was used. The apparently personal nature of crime suggests the responsible party was known to them. And anyone sophisticated enough to know this couple would realize it’s a better idea to keep one’s own hands clean.

 

[nuff]

Was and is a highly dysfunctional family, why do you say that?

Where do you want me to start? The eldest, just based on the visuals of the memorial, seemed as far from her siblings as possible. The next is JS who had tried to convince the others their father was incompetent. The youngest's marriage lasted only 6 months. I was sad to see that AS and her husband, who seemed the most stable, have separated. Plus the recent article (parts already quoted here) have all gone their separate ways in terms of charitable giving, contrary to their parents' wishes.

I suppose all of this (other than JS's nasty behaviour prior to the murders) could all be ascribed to fallout from the tragedy, but my sense is it began way before.

 

[branmuffin]

From the same article: (RBBM)
According to the redacted documents, Honey’s sister Mary told police that while the couple, who had been married for 40 years, would sometimes fight over Barry’s long hours at the office, they “could not live without each other.” Police said she also told them that “everyone wanted to get near” them because of their wealth.

What an absolutely horrible thing to say about your sister and brother in law, who were so very generous to MS and her family for many many years.
Does MS believe that the Sherman's only had friends because they were wealthy?
Does "everyone" include MS?

I think it's a fact of life that wealthy people attract hangers on if only to bump up their own social standing. And because they were so generous with their charities, it's understandable that individuals and organizations tried to ingratiate themselves to get on a list of potential recipients of the Sherman's largesse. I don't think MS was suggesting every person the Sherman's met had avarice on their mind. They appeared to be quite approachable, unlike many wealthy people.

 

[MistyWaters]

Where do you want me to start? The eldest, just based on the visuals of the memorial, seemed as far from her siblings as possible. The next is JS who had tried to convince the others their father was incompetent. The youngest's marriage lasted only 6 months. I was sad to see that AS and her husband, who seemed the most stable, have separated. Plus the recent article (parts already quoted here) have all gone their separate ways in terms of charitable giving, contrary to their parents' wishes.

I suppose all of this (other than JS's nasty behaviour prior to the murders) could all be ascribed to fallout from the tragedy, but my sense is it began way before.

I think to conclude the family was highly dysfunctional is very harsh given we know virtually nothing about them other than a few snips from anonymous sources, reported by KD. If those sources know the information they’ve shared with him is truthful, why do they want to remain anonymous?

Divorce is not an example of dysfunction or instability. Adult children have disagreements in every family and particularly in the aftermath of tragedy. Thank goodness it typically doesn’t make headline news. The murder of their parents, the way the family has suddenly gotten thrust in the public spotlight must be almost as horrific as dealing with the sudden and tragic loss of both parents at the same time.

Not only did the killer take the lives of Barry and Honey, but if as Greenspan or JS believe, he’s one of KDs source, clearly he’s attempting to further destroy the entire family by casting a negative light over each of them. Until charges has been laid, who’s right or wrong, we don’t know.

But I do notice the Apotex Foundation and the Sherman Foundation are still active Charitable Foundations and the Honey and Barry Sherman Legacy Foundation was registered in January of this year.

T3010

 

[MistyWaters]

I think it's a fact of life that wealthy people attract hangers on if only to bump up their own social standing. And because they were so generous with their charities, it's understandable that individuals and organizations tried to ingratiate themselves to get on a list of potential recipients of the Sherman's largesse. I don't think MS was suggesting every person the Sherman's met had avarice on their mind. They appeared to be quite approachable, unlike many wealthy people.

I don’t think MS was suggesting that either.

TPS took sentences and phrases from interviews to support their search warrants in pursuit of a double homicide investigation.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

''The housekeeper told police that Honey, who has problems with her knees, rarely went to the basement and another witness interviewed by investigators said the couple’s pool was rarely used.

I remember HS' desk being in that area, "piled up with papers" (or similar). Why have her desk in the basement, if she wasn't able to climb the stairs? Where did she do her Charity paperwork and other things (ie. architectural designs for her dream home)?

 

[MistyWaters]

Both of these foundations were active prior to the Sherman murders and continue to be throughout the 2019 reporting year. The legacy of giving continues. Why KDs source isn’t able to google, I have no idea.

I notice JK is still one of the 3 Directors of both foundations as well.

Apotex Foundation
Charity Data

Sherman Foundation
Charity Data

 

[AddyFinch]

I suppose all of this (other than JS's nasty behaviour prior to the murders) could all be ascribed to fallout from the tragedy, but my sense is it began way before.

Yes, I think you may be correct. One left for BC, one Israel. Got as far away as possible.
I will admit to finding JS behaviour at the funeral distasteful, immature. Initially thinking it was grief, but now think he’s an entitled rich kid without any respect towards the people responsible for his luxury lifestyle. I would hazard some opinions as to previous psych issues as a kid. No mention in KD book, but would like his perspective re that theory. Surely TPS have enquired as to possible suspects history/ family relationships etc.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, I think you may be correct. One left for BC, one Israel. Got as far away as possible.
I will admit to finding JS behaviour at the funeral distasteful, immature. Initially thinking it was grief, but now think he’s an entitled rich kid without any respect towards the people responsible for his luxury lifestyle. I would hazard some opinions as to previous psych issues as a kid. No mention in KD book, but would like his perspective re that theory. Surely TPS have enquired as to possible suspects history/ family relationships etc.

I notice certain parallels in your post, maybe even a pattern.

- selfish entitlement to the Apotex fortune *
- allegations about Barry’s deteriorating state of mental health **
- personal psych issues ***
- “father”****
- maybe there’s more but I didn’t buy KDs book.

So....are we talking about JS or KW? It’s resembling the same song, different verse. If this was just a work of fiction, it would probably constitute a copyright violation!

* leading the cousins’ lawsuit for 20%
** as was posted on this thread by KW, VI
*** alleged by SIL after media blitz by KW.
****”Barry was like a father to me” quote -
WARMINGTON: Investigators should 'follow the money' to solve Sherman murders | Toronto Sun

 

[tayaway]

Nobody knows how you'd react to the death of both your parents until it happens, even if you're the one behind it (not arguing here that one of the kids is guilty, just including it as a generic possibility in an open example). Attempting to measure it by perimeters such as class or public behavior seems pointless. Humans are complicated animals who often don't know themselves, let alone outside observers.

 

[taylorss]

What happened at the funeral with JS? I’d stopped following then .... thanks!

 

[dotr]

What happened at the funeral with JS? I’d stopped following then .... thanks!

Jonathan Sherman pays tribute to his parents
•Feb 28, 2018

 

[taylorss]

I guess JS’s tribute wasn’t well received?

 

[casesensitive]

Nobody knows how you'd react to the death of both your parents until it happens, even if you're the one behind it (not arguing here that one of the kids is guilty, just including it as a generic possibility in an open example). Attempting to measure it by perimeters such as class or public behavior seems pointless. Humans are complicated animals who often don't know themselves, let alone outside observers.

I agree with you tayaway, to a point. With the murder cases I have covered in my 13 years on WS, I have seen loved one's responses go from a numb reaction to a falling down hysterical display of emotions.

Both polar reactions, and anything in between are understandable. I have only seen one example in 13 years of a grieving loved one crying and wiping her eyes when there was no evidence of tears. I thought this mom is guilty--fake tears just like Susan Smith. She was totally innocent. I thought later, did she feel that she had to appear crying for the presser to justify her grief and innocence?

After that lesson, I don't think I can judge JS at his parent's funeral. He took the stage to talk about his parents and wiped his eyes and nose when it was evident that there was no need to either. Maybe he felt that he had to publicly show his grief for the crowd. Maybe he was drained of tears, but it is never a good idea to fake it, for whatever reason. He would be my second innocent person in 13 years that faked tears, but he was on the world stage, and I can understand how that could happen, to a point.

 

[tayaway]

I guess JS’s tribute wasn’t well received?

IMO: From this clip, 2 negative things stood out; 1) when he described his parents as keys, 'useless alone,' with such firmness that those two words stick out the most, and 2) that as a little kid, unlike other boys, he did not see his father as his personal hero. It wasn't until he was older that he saw heroic qualities in his father. ...On a positive, he likens his father to an all round Canadian hero.

eta: Case Sensitive: I didn't even notice he shed no tears. I was focused on listening! Good point.