Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15

[Bobbi Pearl]

If Honey was having an affair, and somebody was blackmailing her about it, the blackmailer would not kill her, as Honey was the source of the blackmail income. The Blackmailer would not kill Barry either, because Barry was the 'leverage' used against Honey. The Blackmailer would want to keep both Shermans alive to keep the revenue stream going. Historically in blackmail situations, the blackmailer is the one most at risk of death.

I recall reports that Honey did not have any of her own money, thus why discussions were had regarding gifting her the hundreds of millions, so she would no longer need to ask Barry for money to pay for things.

Thank you Bobbi Pearl. The criticism of my theory that was posted above reveals that the person who critiqued me had not read carefully my analysis. I clearly indicated this: Did he do all the steps himself or did he have someone to assist ? I don't know.
It is not impossible that BS had someone help him complete the ghastly deed. With BS thousand of millions, a paid accomplice would be easy to find and vanish to live richly on a Caribbean paradise. It's a theory, nothing more-nothing less.... and it does hold water.

Hi CAMBRIAN,

My responses are not meant to be critical of your opinion, my apology to you that you interpreted it as such. I thought I had read your response, I was not sure what your analysis was based on, you yourself had mentioned you do not know how BS could have accomplished this on his own and may have had help. And that it is a "theory only" but very few facts mostly based on - it could have happened this way and heavily emphasized on a personality type. Sorry, this type of conclusion makes me think of how Guy Paul Morin was made out to be a monster because he was a loaner, odd and quiet by nature.

Of course, you are correct, any of these publicly discussed "theories" today could hold water, we are conducting these conversations based on media reports or "I heard through the grapevine" or "my gut tells me", or "I think"....... or lack thereof actual divulgence of the true facts and figures that cover all aspects of this case.

More than a year ago I had thoughts around Honey as the actual target. Maybe too many changes happening and Honey was spending lots of money and getting more power in the family. Barry was forgiving and forever giving, Honey was not, and the suggested built-up resentment towards family requests for money than her upcoming gift of hundreds of millions maybe was the actual thing they wanted to be stopped. Maybe Barry came home earlier than he was expected and he recognized the person(s) and had to be killed as well. Then they went with the odd staging. Again still a viable "theory", but that is all this is, I have no factual details that could say this was how it happened. I am sure others could have reasons to believe this was not possible and share why in their view of the facts that it could not have happened that way.

My conclusions have changed since learning more published details but I have not come to the same conclusion as you have. I do not want to seem critical of another point of view, just wanted to share how I am perceiving your post. The only reason I do not conclude M/S or an assisted M/S or a S/S is that I cannot understand a why? what motive would Barry have to kill her or they do it together? He had not "gifted" her any money yet? Money seemed to be a game to Barry it came and went, he was always described as overly generous to everyone except Honey. All reports were they were very happy, making big plans for the future.

Bobbi Pearl

 

[deugirtni]

I'm pretty sure that H was given enough money to keep her in whatever she wanted, ie unneeded clothes, new house, investment properties purchased with the assistance of her sister, golf trips with her friends, trips to FL to see art exhibits, a vacation home in FL, and likely whatever else she actually wanted or needed. I think it was said early on that B liked to see receipts. I can't blame him for that, considering my own suspicion in that regard is that he may have had an inkling about one of her relatives possibly abusing her generosity and setting mechanisms in place to make any of that come to light and be accountable, rather than just free and unfettered access. Who knows what H may have done if there were no boundaries? It seems as it was, she was to receive anywhere between 100 and 500 million, but yet one of H's relatives said that entire amount at the top end of that range, 500 million, was to be coming to her, once H received it. At least that is how I interpreted everything I have read. So imho, when we're told that H didn't have her 'own' money, I think it was more that she wasn't able to give hundreds of millions of dollars away to someone whom H may have found to be needy and persuasive.

I remember early on, police stating they had no problem in calling it what it was, whatever it happened to turn out to be, (my words), and that they were not going to be swayed or politically correct, in accommodating a wealthy family's desires. For whatever reason(s) they had, TPS took their time with the investigation before publicly announcing their determination of targeted double homicide. We likely won't find out the whys and wherefores until such time as hopefully there is a trial. TPS isn't some hick town, backwoods police force, Toronto is the most populous city in Canada, and the fourth largest in North America. It isn't like they've never seen a 'staging' before. Sure they make mistakes too, and had a lot going on at that particular time, but I think they're nowhere as incompetent as they might appear to be at times, but yet they are not able to defend themselves if they might have reasons for appearing that way in an ongoing investigation. That is a big reason for me to discard the M/S theory, among others, and to me, the S/S theory should never have been in the running, considering H's facial injuries, among other things.

I am curious however, what makes some people want to stick with the M/S theory even though there seems to be no evidence pointing that way that we know of?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I'm pretty sure that H was given enough money to keep her in whatever she wanted, ie unneeded clothes, new house, investment properties purchased with the assistance of her sister, golf trips with her friends, trips to FL to see art exhibits, a vacation home in FL, and likely whatever else she actually wanted or needed. I think it was said early on that B liked to see receipts. I can't blame him for that, considering my own suspicion in that regard is that he may have had an inkling about one of her relatives possibly abusing her generosity and setting mechanisms in place to make any of that come to light and be accountable, rather than just free and unfettered access. Who knows what H may have done if there were no boundaries? It seems as it was, she was to receive anywhere between 100 and 500 million, but yet one of H's relatives said that entire amount at the top end of that range, 500 million, was to be coming to her, once H received it. At least that is how I interpreted everything I have read. So imho, when we're told that H didn't have her 'own' money, I think it was more that she wasn't able to give hundreds of millions of dollars away to someone whom H may have found to be needy and persuasive.

I remember early on, police stating they had no problem in calling it what it was, whatever it happened to turn out to be, (my words), and that they were not going to be swayed or politically correct, in accommodating a wealthy family's desires. For whatever reason(s) they had, TPS took their time with the investigation before publicly announcing their determination of targeted double homicide. We likely won't find out the whys and wherefores until such time as hopefully there is a trial. TPS isn't some hick town, backwoods police force, Toronto is the most populous city in Canada, and the fourth largest in North America. It isn't like they've never seen a 'staging' before. Sure they make mistakes too, and had a lot going on at that particular time, but I think they're nowhere as incompetent as they might appear to be at times, but yet they are not able to defend themselves if they might have reasons for appearing that way in an ongoing investigation. That is a big reason for me to discard the M/S theory, among others, and to me, the S/S theory should never have been in the running, considering H's facial injuries, among other things.

I am curious however, what makes some people want to stick with the M/S theory even though there seems to be no evidence pointing that way that we know of?

I do not disagree that she was given a great amount of money on a regular basis. When I wrote that sentence I was thinking more about the fact she had to ask for it all the time, my understanding was that he would give her this big lump sum of $$ and then she was on her own, do with it what she please but, no more asking Barry for money. It was reported H had the grievance that he had gifted 2 of the children 10's of millions of dollars to do with as they please and yet he had not done the same for her.

 

[deugirtni]

I do not disagree that she was given a great amount of money on a regular basis. When I wrote that sentence I was thinking more about the fact she had to ask for it all the time, my understanding was that he would give her this big lump sum of $$ and then she was on her own, do with it what she please but, no more asking Barry for money. It was reported H had the grievance that he had gifted 2 of the children 10's of millions of dollars to do with as they please and yet he had not done the same for her.

I don't think it said anywhere that she was not allowed to ask B for additional monies aside from whatever presumably piles he gave her to run the household with? Money is such an ugly thing, really.. the kids, they were trying to apparently teach them to invest wisely or whatever.. with Honey, she was part of a 'couple', and normally married couples might discuss what to spend piles of money on. Somehow I get the impression that B perhaps didn't want H's relatives gaining access to more millions.. afterall, IIRC, the same relative and/or husband had gone bankrupt owing B scads of money already.

 

[deugirtni]

.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't think it said anywhere that she was not allowed to ask B for additional monies aside from whatever presumably piles he gave her to run the household with? Money is such an ugly thing, really.. the kids, they were trying to apparently teach them to invest wisely or whatever.. with Honey, she was part of a 'couple', and normally married couples might discuss what to spend piles of money on. Somehow I get the impression that B perhaps didn't want H's relatives gaining access to more millions.. afterall, IIRC, the same relative and/or husband had gone bankrupt owing B scads of money already.

For everything we think we know, it seems there’s something to contradict it. If Barry had distanced himself from Honey’s relatives, it’d be unusual for him to involve Mary in the numbered company established as a seller of the residential property.

“When the Shermans put their house on the market, they did what many rich people do to protect privacy: they used a numbered company as the seller. Sherman had a library to choose from; the one that was chosen listed him as president and his sister-in-law, Mary Shechtman, as a director.

That Sherman had a numbered Ontario company with his sister-in-law named as an officer wouldn’t surprise anyone familiar with his labyrinthine holdings outside of Apotex—ventures that put the test to Sherman’s claim he didn’t care about making money. Relatives pop up in the records of Sherman’s non-Apotex ventures held through “Sherm”-prefixed companies—including Shermco Inc., Sherfam Inc., Sherfam Industries Inc., Sherfam Holdings Inc.—as well as Bernard C. Sherman Limited and numerous trusts and private foundations. The Shermans’ real estate holdings—apartment buildings, condos, commercial properties, rumoured private islands—were held via Sherfam Inc., Signet Realty and Weston, Fla.-based Sherm Realty, as well as trusts...”
Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman

 

[deugirtni]

For everything we think we know, it seems there’s something to contradict it. If Barry had distanced himself from Honey’s relatives, it’d be unusual for him to involve Mary in the numbered company established as a seller of the residential property.

“When the Shermans put their house on the market, they did what many rich people do to protect privacy: they used a numbered company as the seller. Sherman had a library to choose from; the one that was chosen listed him as president and his sister-in-law, Mary Shechtman, as a director.

That Sherman had a numbered Ontario company with his sister-in-law named as an officer wouldn’t surprise anyone familiar with his labyrinthine holdings outside of Apotex—ventures that put the test to Sherman’s claim he didn’t care about making money. Relatives pop up in the records of Sherman’s non-Apotex ventures held through “Sherm”-prefixed companies—including Shermco Inc., Sherfam Inc., Sherfam Industries Inc., Sherfam Holdings Inc.—as well as Bernard C. Sherman Limited and numerous trusts and private foundations. The Shermans’ real estate holdings—apartment buildings, condos, commercial properties, rumoured private islands—were held via Sherfam Inc., Signet Realty and Weston, Fla.-based Sherm Realty, as well as trusts...”
Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman

I didn't say he distanced himself from certain relatives, but embracing them with open arms also doesn't necessarily mean he wants to gift them half a billion dollars either. We've read that B wanted receipts and didn't give H unfettered access to their wealth, so it's possible there is a reason for that, and it's possible he didn't want to gift them millions more than he had already, which is why I said 'perhaps', and that it was 'my impression', from everything I have read.

 

[JDG]

Didn't a recent article state that a grown nephew on HS side ask to buy clothes on her credit card??

If not, it was a book excerpt.

I'd expect family 'adults' to buy their own clothing unless it was a dire emergency of some sort.

Seems that using her cc kept the amounts away from BS.

Her ccs were probably paid off monthly by her PA.

 

[MistyWaters]

I didn't say he distanced himself from certain relatives, but embracing them with open arms also doesn't necessarily mean he wants to gift them half a billion dollars either. We've read that B wanted receipts and didn't give H unfettered access to their wealth, so it's possible there is a reason for that, and it's possible he didn't want to gift them millions more than he had already, which is why I said 'perhaps', and that it was 'my impression', from everything I have read.

True, just pointing out there must’ve been a certain level of trust by Barry toward his sister-in law for him to choose to involve her in the numbered company.

Another example, much has been written about millions Barry was to give Honey, who planned to give some to her sister, then comes allegations of the financial stresses of Apotex due to the lost lawsuit....what I mean by contradictory information. We’re left in the position of picking and choosing what best suits our personal theories. Is any of the anonymous information that’s been leaked by the media factual? Sometimes I wonder.

 

[ldlager]

IMO MS and her family lived off BS.
Until the money was cut off.

 

[dotr]

Didn't a recent article state that a grown nephew on HS side ask to buy clothes on her credit card??

If not, it was a book excerpt.

I'd expect family 'adults' to buy their own clothing unless it was a dire emergency of some sort.

Seems that using her cc kept the amounts away from BS.

Her ccs were probably paid off monthly by her PA.

Re post.
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15"

Many lined up at the ‘Bank of Barry’ Sherman: Inside the $10 billion succession battle
''Mary has disputed characterizations of her as someone who has lived off her late sister and her husband. She said her parents provided seed money for Barry in the early days and over the years she has worked hard on real-estate projects for the Shermans, earning everything that was paid to her. Recently, in her basement, she discovered an IOU Barry wrote to her mother in the 1970s for monies advanced when he was starting out in business. It is an IOU she has not been able to collect on. So frosty is her relationship with the Sherman children that Jonathon evicted her last fall (he said his father had given her a rent-free unit but the management company he hired insisted that Mary pay rental) from a storage unit his self-storage company owns in Ajax. Mary’s spending habits were mentioned in passing in the police search warrant-documents released following a Star court challenge. Honey’s assistant was quoted as telling police that while Honey never spent much money on her credit card “it was Mary who spent a lot of money at U.S. Saks and Barry was never to see those bills.”

 

[dotr]

Didn't a recent article state that a grown nephew on HS side ask to buy clothes on her credit card??

If not, it was a book excerpt.

I'd expect family 'adults' to buy their own clothing unless it was a dire emergency of some sort.

Seems that using her cc kept the amounts away from BS.

Her ccs were probably paid off monthly by her PA.

Re post of intended excerpt.. did not previously notice that MS's son Noah, also has a husband.
Many lined up at the ‘Bank of Barry’ Sherman: Inside the $10 billion succession battle
''In October 2017, two months before the murders, Noah was in Florida with his husband and he emailed his Aunt Honey saying he wanted to buy new clothes. Honey was travelling in San Francisco.

“Saks has friends and family right now,” Noah wrote Honey on Oct. 6, 2017, referring to the department store’s promotion. “Is it OK to use the card to get some things? I need some things because I don’t have many things that fit. Love you!”

Honey emailed back that afternoon. “Of course. My pleasure. Do you need my card? I’m not home until Sunday. Does your mom have the number? Xoxo.”

Honey must have told her sister Mary about the exchange because a few hours later Mary blasted her son by email.

“You and I already discussed (and) you aren’t allowed to make any further purchases on the card without my approval,” Mary told Noah, instructing him to return some items he had previously purchased. She went on to say she did not understand why he was making more purchases when he had “$10,000 worth of unworn shoes” upstairs in his bedroom at Mary’s Forest Hill home.

In the wee hours of the next day, Honey, a nocturnal emailer, told Noah he could make the purchases but reminded him to “please b (sic) cautious with your purchases. Much appreciated!”

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I don't think it said anywhere that she was not allowed to ask B for additional monies aside from whatever presumably piles he gave her to run the household with? Money is such an ugly thing, really.. the kids, they were trying to apparently teach them to invest wisely or whatever.. with Honey, she was part of a 'couple', and normally married couples might discuss what to spend piles of money on. Somehow I get the impression that B perhaps didn't want H's relatives gaining access to more millions.. afterall, IIRC, the same relative and/or husband had gone bankrupt owing B scads of money already.

Agreed money can be an ugly thing and make people do ugly things.

It gets so confusing, one report states one view and another sets another scene in your mind. But in the end, many have said that Barry forgave and got over things easily and quickly, Honey not so fast.

Maybe B was giving the money to H so her family could no longer ask him for $$, if she wanted to give them some of hers fine? No matter what we are hearing these stories from people from their perspectives and opinions.

Adding: Maybe Barry felt good to give and this is why he liked to keep the control on the purse strings, including all of his family.

 

[deugirtni]

.... Maybe B was giving the money to H so her family could no longer ask him for $$, if she wanted to give them some of hers fine? ....

RSBM

I like that thought.That seems like it could be a reasonable possibility, imho. It would explain why H may have let MS know (but sounds like it's possible MS may have misunderstood during the translation?!). I could see B working out an amount with H (taking into consideration how much available cash they may have expected to have available in the time period being considered), even perhaps asking her how much H felt would be a reasonable amount to gift to her relative over their lifetime, and while agreeing, saying, but that's it, when it's gone, it's gone. Then putting H in charge of whether to say yay or nay, and putting himself out of it. Excellent!

 

[JDG]

There isn't much on record, that's public at least, about BSs sister and her hubby asking/receiving money from the Shermans. At least not that I recall.

Perhaps they paid their own bills and financed their own lifestyles. IMO, MOO

Also, the bit about 'seed money' from the 1970s from HSs parents; I'm certain it wasn't like a few million and my recollection is that HS and MS were raised in a very modest home. IIRC, the girls bedroom was simply an alcove in the hallway. Not judging at all but that is my recollection. IMO

Why would MS think that SHE should collect on an IOU to her MOTHER, nearly 50 yrs later?? IMO, MOO

Just some thoughts to ponder and my opinion only.

 

[ldlager]

RSBM

I like that thought.That seems like it could be a reasonable possibility, imho. It would explain why H may have let MS know (but sounds like it's possible MS may have misunderstood during the translation?!). I could see B working out an amount with H (taking into consideration how much available cash they may have expected to have available in the time period being considered), even perhaps asking her how much H felt would be a reasonable amount to gift to her relative over their lifetime, and while agreeing, saying, but that's it, when it's gone, it's gone. Then putting H in charge of whether to say yay or nay, and putting himself out of it. Excellent!

BS had already given millions to MS' husband, who proceeded to lose it all when his jewelry business went bankrupt. I wonder if BS was just getting tired of being the bank for everyone.

Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman

 

[casesensitive]

Not to stifle conversation on the thread, but why are we discussing Honey's sister? She would be the last person to want B and H killed.

I don't see the relevance in discussing her since she would have no motive, and was in Florida when the Sherman's were killed. She is obviously not a "person of interest" in the police investigation, and I can't see how her relationship to B and H (financial and/or emotional) adds anything to our sleuthing in this case.

It just seems like idle gossip to me, which is unnecessary. Maybe I am missing something that is relevant to the murders? jmo

 

[casesensitive]

I said she is "obviously" not a POI, not definitely. But a likely (usual) motive is paramount to this case, and it is who would benefit... follow the money being an important motive. Another motive would be revenge or big pharmacy competition.

MS lost out big time, despite her claim that Honey was going to give her millions. She didn't claim that Barry was going to leave her $$$ in his will. Why would she ever think that she would be included as a beneficiary in BS's will? She never claimed that she was a beneficiary in Honey's missing will, which would be more likely.

Murder is typically investigated by who had means, motive and opportunity. Love, money and power are usual motives. I know that these stats are merely a base starting point for LE and they expand their investigation from there.

I don't know if MS had means (to hire a hit), I don't see money as a motive (the opposite) and we know she didn't have the opportunity. Love (jealousy and betrayal) doesn't fit, money was cut off to her from their deaths, and power doesn't fit.

I didn't realize that members were discussing her because they feel she is a viable suspect, and I apologize for thinking it was unwarranted gossip.

 

[ldlager]

My post re MS was deleted.

 

[WINDSOR]

As I believe we have appeared to have gone tangentially away from the main focus of the case I would like to go back to what I believe are crucial pieces of evidence.
1) The video's of Old Colony Rd. on the day and evening of the murders. Somebody knows what is on those tapes.
2) The physical location of several POI's at the time of the murders. This can be ascertained by witnesses or cell phone data.(pings on towers)
3) Records of passport screening at various Ports of Entry to and from Canada.

The fact none of the media reports speak about these things, leads me to believe that the TPS has the evidence.