PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #5

[layer]

That seems consistent with how they appear to have understood their role, which they were using their perch to look for suspicious persons wandering around, did see suspicious persons wandering and reported them.

My suspicion is that local LE mistakenly thought the SS were at least borderline competent.

20 minutes passed between the time U.S. Secret Service snipers first spotted the gunman on a rooftop and the time shots were fired at the former president. Source

Why was Trump allowed to go onstage after SS snipers spotted Crooks on the roof?

 

[zleuther]

Re @SpanishInquisition...

It came from their After Action assessment (i.e. they knew where TC was when they assessed)

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

The doc that mighta discussed roles and planning is different

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[SpanishInquisition]

My suspicion is that local LE mistakenly thought the SS were at least borderline competent.

20 minutes passed between the time U.S. Secret Service snipers first spotted the gunman on a rooftop and the time shots were fired at the former president. Source

Why was Trump allowed to go onstage after SS snipers spotted Crooks on the roof?

I think local LE was confused and frustrated, particularly as the day went on. With nobody from Butler ESU able to talk to the USSS, that's a huge difference from full time Secret Service snipers who have coms and specialized training. If I was local LE, I wouldn't think the Secret Service wanted me to do actual sniping especially when I couldn't get quick authorization from them to go shooting people without being thoroughly trained the protocols on killing people at Presidential events. Without easy access to the USSS, it seems like they treated themselves as scouts watching what was happening on the ground that would switch SWAT if something was happening on the ground, like to try and confront suspicious persons.

 

[Sundog]

Why was Trump allowed to go onstage after SS snipers spotted Crooks on the roof?

<snipped for focus>

My understanding from the various reporting is that the SS agents who are on President Trump's detail to protect him were not given any information about anyone spotting Crooks on the roof before they allowed President Trump to go to the podium/stage.

ETA So they put not only President Trump in danger, but also the SS agents who protect him. One of them (or more) could have also lost their lives.

 

[zleuther]

@SpanishInquisition No, read the second doc re use of force protocol and re confront suspicious persons.

 

[Simply Southern]

Also, on the morning of the rally and shooting, officials said Crooks went to Home Depot to buy a step ladder. Authorities said he used that ladder to climb onto the roof of a building about 400 feet from the podium at the Butler Farm Show, where Trump was speaking.

The article is dated 7/16, much more factual information since. It was initially speculated he used the ladder at site.

The ladder was found near the home, per the FBI testimony ..
Judicial Congressional committee. Video up thread.
Moo

 

[Sundog]

Seems the source re any phone call is Trump, not Zuckerberg. What's your source @Sundog?

Trump Says Meta’s Zuckerberg Has Been Calling Him ‘A Lot’ Lately

Donald Trump said Meta Platforms Inc. Chief Executive Officer Mark Zuckerberg called him multiple times over the past few weeks, including after the former US President faced an assassination attempt in mid-July.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Simply Southern]

View from AGR second floor...

This is a different window and was discussed during the judicial Congressional hearing.
If you look at the attached doc you will see their is no building infront of the sniper stationed.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Rowe did NOT meet with anyone local, not even the team lead. He did NOT meet with the SS team at this site. He ASSUMED he knew the location. In the diagrams, Rowe produced he showed three sniper teams covering from windows. The committee met with the officers involved prior to the Thursday meeting. SS has still NOT given anyone a copy of the sight plan.

Moo

Rowe's diagrams are near the beginning of the meeting.

WATCH: Acting Secret Service director testifies in Senate hearing on Trump rally shooting

The Secret Service's acting director told lawmakers on Tuesday that he considered it indefensible that the roof used by the gunman in the attempted assassination of former President Donald Trump was unsecured, faulting local law enforcement for not circulating urgent information ahead of the...

www.pbs.org

 

[zleuther]

It's the exact same window.

"Beaver Sniper Line of Sight" = the one on the easel behind Rowe

It looks like they slid the window open in order to take that photo.

 

[Simply Southern]

It's the exact same window.

"Beaver Sniper Line of Sight" = the one on the easel behind Rowe

It looks like they slid the window open in order to take that photo.

It's NOT the window the sniper team was located. Rowe's diagrams are incorrect, moo. Later in the hearing, there's a discussion about his diagrams and accuracy. He mapped out what made him look good, and blamed the locals. The committee was quick to call him out.
He's not interviewed his SS staff, he's not met with anyone or spoke to anyone locally. How can he know where anybody was? Even the committee question why you didn't meet with the locals.


Moo....

 

[zleuther]

@Simply Southern I quote from minute 43:00 in the video in your link, with the photo of the exact same window on the easel as the quote happens...

This point of view is the point of view where the counter sniper team locally was posted.

 

[zleuther]

How can he know where anybody was? Even the committee question why you didn't meet with the locals.

By looking at the exact same doc you looked at -- the local After Action pdf. This is inarguable, sorry.

That doc shows the building.
That doc has a label "Beaver Sniper Line of Sight".
Any investigator would take that doc and then say, next I need a photo looking out that window.

Yikes.

 

[Chimera]

Local SWAT team version of "Beaver Sniper Line of Sight", no kidding...

@zleuther; did you have a link for that photo ?
There was something I wanted to check out.
Tia.

 

[Chimera]

This is a different window and was discussed during the judicial Congressional hearing.
If you look at the attached doc you will see their is no building infront of the sniper stationed.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Rowe did NOT meet with anyone local, not even the team lead. He did NOT meet with the SS team at this site. He ASSUMED he knew the location. In the diagrams, Rowe produced he showed three sniper teams covering from windows. The committee met with the officers involved prior to the Thursday meeting. SS has still NOT given anyone a copy of the sight plan.

Moo

Rowe's diagrams are near the beginning of the meeting.

WATCH: Acting Secret Service director testifies in Senate hearing on Trump rally shooting

The Secret Service's acting director told lawmakers on Tuesday that he considered it indefensible that the roof used by the gunman in the attempted assassination of former President Donald Trump was unsecured, faulting local law enforcement for not circulating urgent information ahead of the...

www.pbs.org

Black and red bolding mine.

Why the secrecy ?
Omo.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

@SpanishInquisition No, read the second doc re use of force protocol and re confront suspicious persons.

That document seems to confirm it. The snipers weren't actually there for sniping. They weren't to respond to an attack by one or multiple perps nor to a lone shooter and were on the same use of force as everyone else...there was no sniper protocols except in the negative sense where like I said, they could have seen themselves as scouts who sometimes convert to SWAT.

Snipers were excluded from responding to any attacks, they weren't actually there to counter-snipe but instead it was up to the Counter Assault Teams to respond to any attacks:
Execution
Butler ESU Counter Assault Team (6 Operators)-Dedicated members to respond to a coordinated attack on Trump and/or location of event.
Beaver County ESU Counter Assault Team (6 Operators)-Dedicated members to respond to a coordinated attack on Trump and/or location of event.

Them not being counter-snipers was again re-emphasized that it was another group that was responsible if there was a lone shooter, like what happened:
QRF TEAM (4 to 6 Operators)-Responsible for a lone Active Attack/Shooter on/off site.

This plan shows they weren't the functional equivalent of Secret Service snipers. At best it looks like they could be told to snipe, but they weren't sniping by default with instead the execution of various types of events was left up to other units, like lone shooters were left up to the Quick Reaction Force. The part where it mentions Trump getting assaulted does not mention snipers either, but instead that's the Counter Assault Team with the Quick Reaction Force as backup...no snipers.

 

[zleuther]

It's prolly just me, but when I read in this local plan, page 25, about "hold their area of responsibility"* I thought for sure they were talking about counter sniper responsibilities. But no, they were discussing the counter assault team responsibilities LOL.

* cuz assasins like to work in pairs

 

[Chimera]

This is a different window and was discussed during the judicial Congressional hearing.
If you look at the attached doc you will see their is no building infront of the sniper stationed.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Rowe did NOT meet with anyone local, not even the team lead. He did NOT meet with the SS team at this site. He ASSUMED he knew the location. In the diagrams, Rowe produced he showed three sniper teams covering from windows. The committee met with the officers involved prior to the Thursday meeting. SS has still NOT given anyone a copy of the sight plan.

Moo

Rowe's diagrams are near the beginning of the meeting.

WATCH: Acting Secret Service director testifies in Senate hearing on Trump rally shooting

The Secret Service's acting director told lawmakers on Tuesday that he considered it indefensible that the roof used by the gunman in the attempted assassination of former President Donald Trump was unsecured, faulting local law enforcement for not circulating urgent information ahead of the...

www.pbs.org

@zleuther; did you have a link for that photo ?
There was something I wanted to check out.
Tia.

Eta : It's in the Document Cloud. My bad, @Simply Southern !
I didn't know you'd linked it already.
Thanks.
Omo.

 

[zleuther]

There's a few interesting things in this slide...

...that's slightly modified* from the version in the After Action assessment doc

The 3rd local counter sniper who had to leave early texted that TC was sitting at the picnic table, and I believe we can just barely see it at the Building 4 end of the "horizontal" sidewalk from the small parking lot.

Did the 3rd sniper walk along the "diagonal" sidewalk when he bailed? If so doesn't it seem like he woulda spoken to TC?

* most likely reason for modification = one or the other is corrected, cuz the only difference I see is the location of the "square" symbol labeled BCESU sniper. In the doc (the symbol and the) BCESU sniper are next to the "Uniformed Patrol Meets" label.

FWIW the picnic table can be seen a little better in a drone video at 9:10...

...and BTW Spa Guy drives into the smaller lot at the 2:00 minute mark.

 

[LadyL]

Local SWAT team version of "Beaver Sniper Line of Sight", no kidding...

this map confuses me
where is the building Crooks was on?

 

[zleuther]

@LadyL look for the label "Suspect down" in my recent post.

@zleuther ... Oops, no, there's two picnic tables (Spa Guy youtube @11:00 shows both).

...and the TC one is in the lower left corner of the large parking lot. Somehow NYT's label are HTML'd on top of this JPG, but the dot near the picnic table is NYT-labeled...
4:26 p.m.
Gunman first
spotted

(NYT)

“Guys I am out. Be safe,” he texted to a group of colleagues at 4:19 p.m. on July 13. He exited the second floor of a warehouse that overlooked the campaign rally site, leaving two other countersnipers behind.
Outside, the officer noticed a young man with long stringy hair sitting on a picnic table near the warehouse.

So at 4:26 p.m., he texted his colleagues about the man, who was outside the fenced area of the Butler Fair Show grounds where Mr. Trump was to appear. He said that the person would have seen him come out with his rifle and “knows you guys are up there.”