CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

[Deleted member 275109]

Does any other newspaper have the info as I can’t open the link.

 

[JDG]

Mods. if this is not allowed, please remove. Thanks

Can someone please try this and let me know if it works?

Go to Facebook, then to the Toronto Star page.

If/when you find this article, can you read it there??

Many thanks.

ETA: someone who comes up against the paywall, not a subscriber. Tx.

 

[JoyMBee]

‘New information’ discovered in Barry and Honey Sherman murder case from previously interviewed witnesses (outline.com)I copied this from the Toronto Star facebook page. It let me read it. Delete if not allowed. I am not a subscriber.

 

[deugirtni]

Mods. if this is not allowed, please remove. Thanks

Can someone please try this and let me know if it works?

Go to Facebook, then to the Toronto Star page.

If/when you find this article, can you read it there??

Many thanks.

ETA: someone who comes up against the paywall, not a subscriber. Tx.

I still couldn't get in that way. Also couldn't get in by opening the fb link in a 'private window'.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Posted an hour ago...
May 14 2021
‘New information’ discovered in Barry and Honey Sherman murder case from previously interviewed witnesses
''People interviewed by Toronto homicide detectives in the early days of the Barry and Honey Sherman murder probe have recently handed over new information “previously unknown to investigators,” according to police documents filed in court.

The people — police have not identified them or said what they revealed — provided the information to detectives after the release of Sherman police files last December in response to a Toronto Star challenge of sealing orders on police search warrant documents.''
Alternate link..
‘New information’ discovered in Barry and Honey Sherman murder case from previously interviewed witnesses

From the link in your post (bbm): “As the Star has previously reported, the founder of Apotex generic drug company and his wife were strangled, most likely with a thin ligature similar to an industrial zip tie, and then were apparently posed in a seated position on the pool deck, leather belts around their neck tied to a low railing to keep them from falling back into the pool. ”

It was shocking to me when Donovan first reported that weeks ago: it seems law enforcement like hold-back information to me. After 3 1/2 years, one book and countless articles, we find this out. And before an arrest. Why?

According to Donovan, zip ties (possibly), were used to restrain the Shermans but were removed from the scene. Were the other ligatures left or removed? And if they were left, why was a m/s not immediately excluded by the first pathologist?

And this big detail (IMO) is only being reported by the Star.

 

[MistyWaters]

From the link in your post (bbm): “As the Star has previously reported, the founder of Apotex generic drug company and his wife were strangled, most likely with a thin ligature similar to an industrial zip tie, and then were apparently posed in a seated position on the pool deck, leather belts around their neck tied to a low railing to keep them from falling back into the pool. ”

It was shocking to me when Donovan first reported that weeks ago: it seems law enforcement like hold-back information to me. After 3 1/2 years, one book and countless articles, we find this out. And before an arrest. Why?

According to Donovan, zip ties (possibly), were used to restrain the Shermans but were removed from the scene. Were the other ligatures left or removed? And if they were left, why was a m/s not immediately excluded by the first pathologist?

And this big detail (IMO) is only being reported by the Star.

If the crime scene was staged as m/s, there’s be no reason to immediately inform the unknown killer his ruse was unsuccessful.

 

[ldlager]

Dr. M.Pollanen, the Chief Forensic Pathologist for Ontario is back in the news. Allegations against Dr. Pollanen haven't been proven in court, but his credibility has been tarnished by a scathing admonishment of his testimony in court by a judge.

The first autopsies of the Sherman's were performed by one of his staff, and obviously approved by him. (Undetermined manner of deaths). Dr. Pickup who performed the autopsies had considered murder, but signed off as "undetermined'. But he obviously felt the need to attend the second autopsies to provide Dr. Chiasson with photos to assist him. I thought his effort to help Chiasson find the evidence of manner of death was something he did with Pollanen's approval. Pickup is still employed with the forensic unit. Is it possible that Dr. Pollanen was initially influenced/pressured by TPS to not consider a double homicide as a manner of death? I have to assume that he agreed with Chiasson's results, because TPS would never have announced a double homicide based on Chiasson's report. jmo

Sources say Pickup saw indications that it might be a case of double murder. However, Pickup did not make that ruling. Neither Pickup or his boss, chief forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Pollanen, would discuss the case with the Star, citing provincial privacy rules.
How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide


Pollanen's credibility under fire:
The Hamilton coroner who filed a complaint against Dr. M. Pollanen in 2019 is now seeking a
a judicial review of Ontario’s Death Investigation Oversight Council’s (DIOC) handling of her complaint, alleging that it failed “to perform the function entrusted to it by the Ontario legislature” to ensure accountability. Turner alleges that Pollanen deemed the baby’s death a result “of child abuse,” even though the evidence did not support that conclusion, and that he “manipulated” an independent review committee “to pressure her into changing her decision.” She claims that Pollanen’s alleged interference came after his credibility was “badly damaged” in a scathing superior court ruling months earlier.

He was brought in to fix Ontario’s forensic pathology system. Now he’s accused of ‘strong bias’ in investigating a baby’s death

"This interference not only impacts the forensic pathologists subordinate to him, but also the outcome of death investigations," she alleges.

She claims he "sought to impose his conclusions on reports without due regard to the evidence acquired."

She accuses him of using "fear and intimidation to ensure his views were carried through," creating a "toxic culture in death investigations in Ontario."

She alleges he unfairly discredited and disciplined pathologists who had differing views than his on cases.

Shutting down Hamilton forensic pathology unit 'could be rooted in revenge': NDP leader

He was brought in to fix Ontario’s forensic pathology system. Now he’s accused of ‘strong bias’ in investigating a baby’s death

In a case that parallels a scathing judge’s decision about Ontario’s chief forensic pathologist two years ago, Dr. Michael Pollanen has been accused of interfering in the work of the province’s other forensic pathologists, pressing them to change their findings in suspicious deaths and undermining those who disagree with him.
Christie Blatchford: 'Bullying' Ontario chief forensic pathologist accused of interfering with cases | National Post

IIRC I think I read somewhere that Dr Pickup did not have Pollanen’s prior approval to attend the second autopsy. Maybe another poster can confirm my memory thanks

 

[Lexiintoronto]

If the crime scene was staged as m/s, there’s be no reason to immediately inform the unknown killer his ruse was unsuccessful.

I agree with you, and in my view it seems as though initially the police may have done that (not explicitly), and that makes sense.

But we’re way past that now. Why are we the public being told about the actual ligature that caused the deaths? We all know of many murder cases here where the loved ones don’t even know the cause of death and have to wait for an arrest and trial...but here we now know of a new weapon.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree with you, and in my view it seems as though initially the police may have done that (not explicitly), and that makes sense.

But we’re way past that now. Why are we the public being told about the actual ligature that caused the deaths? We all know of many murder cases here where the loved ones don’t even know the cause of death and have to wait for an arrest and trial...but here we now know of a new weapon.

I agree. There’s no reason the public needs to know what caused the deaths considering no charges have been laid.

Is the source reliable? Or is this just an example of click bait considering TPS has released no current progress to report on.

 

[dotr]

IIRC I think I read somewhere that Dr Pickup did not have Pollanen’s prior approval to attend the second autopsy. Maybe another poster can confirm my memory thanks

rbbm.
Barry and Honey Sherman: how the second autopsy revealed it was a double murder - WWWHive
''Chiasson had invited both Dr. Michael Pickup, who performed the first post-mortems, and the Toronto police detectives working the case to the second autopsies. The police, a mix of divisional and homicide officers, had declined. Pickup agreed to go. He did not request permission from his boss, Dr. Michael Pollanen, and later Pickup would catch heat for not at least informing Ontario’s chief pathologist.''

 

[JDG]

From the link in your post (bbm): “As the Star has previously reported, the founder of Apotex generic drug company and his wife were strangled, most likely with a thin ligature similar to an industrial zip tie, and then were apparently posed in a seated position on the pool deck, leather belts around their neck tied to a low railing to keep them from falling back into the pool. ”

It was shocking to me when Donovan first reported that weeks ago: it seems law enforcement like hold-back information to me. After 3 1/2 years, one book and countless articles, we find this out. And before an arrest. Why?

According to Donovan, zip ties (possibly), were used to restrain the Shermans but were removed from the scene. Were the other ligatures left or removed? And if they were left, why was a m/s not immediately excluded by the first pathologist?

And this big detail (IMO) is only being reported by the Star.

IMO, that should have been held back until there was a trial of an accused.

Either someone is leaking evidentiary 'stuff'/ its made up/ the source is mistaken.

Wrong for KD to be putting it into a TorStar article IMO

 

[dotr]

Previously it was suggested that zip ties were possibly used to bind the just the wrists.
Billionaire Canadian Jewish couple were murdered, private detectives say
20 January 2018
''The pathologist and the detectives, which included former Toronto homicide investigators, found markings on the victims’ wrists indicating that their hands had been tied with cord or a plastic zip tie.

When the bodies were found the wrists were untied, and no rope or cords were found, the newspaper said. Furthermore, toxicology tests on the bodies showed no abnormal sign of drug use.''

 

[ldlager]

rbbm.
Barry and Honey Sherman: how the second autopsy revealed it was a double murder - WWWHive
''Chiasson had invited both Dr. Michael Pickup, who performed the first post-mortems, and the Toronto police detectives working the case to the second autopsies. The police, a mix of divisional and homicide officers, had declined. Pickup agreed to go. He did not request permission from his boss, Dr. Michael Pollanen, and later Pickup would catch heat for not at least informing Ontario’s chief pathologist.''

thank you Dotr!

 

[WINDSOR]

Posted an hour ago...
May 14 2021
‘New information’ discovered in Barry and Honey Sherman murder case from previously interviewed witnesses
''People interviewed by Toronto homicide detectives in the early days of the Barry and Honey Sherman murder probe have recently handed over new information “previously unknown to investigators,” according to police documents filed in court.

The people — police have not identified them or said what they revealed — provided the information to detectives after the release of Sherman police files last December in response to a Toronto Star challenge of sealing orders on police search warrant documents.''
Alternate link..
‘New information’ discovered in Barry and Honey Sherman murder case from previously interviewed witnesses

This is an interesting relevation. Kevin Donavan's persistence in getting the court to release documents, has coincidently lead to new information to be revealed to the TPS, by people previously interviewed.
This story in today's Star is significant because it confirms the case has not gone 'cold'. One detective is assigned full time, new info is coming forward, and the TPS is requesting info from a foreign country. All together good news.

Question I have is; does the new info coming out support or contradict the theory TPS has been working with? I sense it it reinforces the path the TPS is on.
MOO

 

[casesensitive]

rbbm.
Barry and Honey Sherman: how the second autopsy revealed it was a double murder - WWWHive
''Chiasson had invited both Dr. Michael Pickup, who performed the first post-mortems, and the Toronto police detectives working the case to the second autopsies. The police, a mix of divisional and homicide officers, had declined. Pickup agreed to go. He did not request permission from his boss, Dr. Michael Pollanen, and later Pickup would catch heat for not at least informing Ontario’s chief pathologist.''

With Dr. Pollanen now having to defend himself against a charge of bullying and forcing forensic pathologists to change their findings, and testifying in court against an accused person without having read the evidence, and his credibility being decimated by a judge, I suspect that Dr. Pickup knew back then that he wouldn't have Pollanen's approval to supply Dr. Chiasson with what he needed for the second autopsies. Politics should never factor in forensic science and police should never outright refuse to consider different forensic evidence. Politics and police egos may have derailed this case initially. jmo

"He (Dr. Chiasson) had dealt with a great deal of politics when he was Ontario’s chief forensic pathologist, and he did not enjoy that side of a high-profile job. He was not entirely sure he wanted to face that kind of stress again.
Having Pickup present was key to Chiasson being able to conduct a successful second set of post-mortems. As with the description of the official autopsy (manner of death undetermined) neither Chiasson nor Pickup would agree to be interviewed."

Taken from the same link above.

 

[MistyWaters]

With Dr. Pollanen now having to defend himself against a charge of bullying and forcing forensic pathologists to change their findings, and testifying in court against an accused person without having read the evidence, and his credibility being decimated by a judge, I suspect that Dr. Pickup knew back then that he wouldn't have Pollanen's approval to supply Dr. Chiasson with what he needed for the second autopsies. Politics should never factor in forensic science and police should never outright refuse to consider different forensic evidence. Politics and police egos may have derailed this case initially. jmo

"He (Dr. Chiasson) had dealt with a great deal of politics when he was Ontario’s chief forensic pathologist, and he did not enjoy that side of a high-profile job. He was not entirely sure he wanted to face that kind of stress again.
Having Pickup present was key to Chiasson being able to conduct a successful second set of post-mortems. As with the description of the official autopsy (manner of death undetermined) neither Chiasson nor Pickup would agree to be interviewed."

Taken from the same link above.

It’s the Chief Coroner who signs off autopsy reports, not the Chief Pathologist so your theory might require some tweaking IMO.

What we do know for a fact is Det Sgt Gomes stated three possible manner of deaths were investigated - double suicide, murder/suicide or double homicide? Considering the homicide division took over on about day two, the Sherman residence was held for six weeks and the amount of investigation that was taking place, it appears to me an unannounced murder investigation was already taking place early on.

Barry and Honey Sherman were victims of double homicide: police
“Through the six weeks of work review we have sufficient evidence to describe this as a double-homicide investigation,” Det. Sgt. Susan Gomes told reporters at a press conference Friday afternoon.

Barry Sherman, founder of the drug company Apotex, and his wife, Honey, were found inside their home on Dec. 15, 2017. A post-mortem examination found the Shermans died of “ligature neck compression.”

Homicide investigators said they had initially treated the deaths as suspicious, but at the time never revealed the manner in which they died.....”

......Police said during the course of their investigation that they collected close to 150 bulk or packaged items, 4 terabytes of security video and spoken to at least 127 witnesses.”....”

 

[casesensitive]

It’s the Chief Coroner who signs off autopsy reports, not the Chief Pathologist so your theory might require some tweaking IMO.
”

rsbm

True, the final sign off is by Dr. Dirk Huyer C.C. I'm not sure my questioning of politics and egos needs much tweaking. lol

.. the Office of the Chief Coroner (which Huyer leads) recently came under fire in a report by Ontario’s Auditor General. The December 2019 report cites a lack of oversight, unprofessional behaviour, undisclosed conflicts of interest and perhaps most importantly to the public, inadequate analysis of mortality data.

His office was under fire. Now, Ontario’s Chief Coroner leads the pandemic response

 

[MistyWaters]

rsbm

True, the final sign off is by Dr. Dirk Huyer C.C. I'm not sure my questioning of politics and egos needs much tweaking. lol

.. the Office of the Chief Coroner (which Huyer leads) recently came under fire in a report by Ontario’s Auditor General. The December 2019 report cites a lack of oversight, unprofessional behaviour, undisclosed conflicts of interest and perhaps most importantly to the public, inadequate analysis of mortality data.

His office was under fire. Now, Ontario’s Chief Coroner leads the pandemic response

How does the Sherman murders relate to the pandemic? That seems a real reach IMO. Although I didn’t watch the video it appears the story runs to the general theme, not only in Ontario, that covid deaths/statistics have been inflated when the cause of death is automatically attributed to a patient with covid, as opposed to other existing high risk factors instead.

BBM

“Additionally, the Office of the Chief Coroner (which Huyer leads) recently came under fire in a report by Ontario’s Auditor General. The December 2019 report cites a lack of oversight, unprofessional behaviour, undisclosed conflicts of interest and perhaps most importantly to the public, inadequate analysis of mortality data.

If true causes of death are not being recorded in a pandemic, what vital information are we missing out on?.....”

 

[ldlager]

New article in the star today focused on Det Constable Yim. I found this statement interesting “...During the cross-examination, Yim said that it is possible that one day, should he retire and the case still remain open, another officer might take over. “I don’t anticipate working on this case for the rest of my life....”.

As Det Yim appears to me to be about 45 years old, the suggestion( By him) that he could retire before this case is solved is most disheartening.
His statement could also be taken to mean that he expects it will be solved before he retired, or that he expects to be pulled off the case by TPS sometime and replaced by someone else before he retires.
However, since he is the only officer working the case full time, given his accumulated knowledge, replacing him appears unlikely to me.

The article indicates that TPS has had the same theory of the case since 4 months after the murders. But despite so much video and so many interviews they seemingly just can’t seem to join enough dots to proceed further:

Where are you in the Sherman investigation? Yim was asked Friday during a court hearing.
“Sometimes I feel like I am playing football blind,” Yim told the Ontario Court of Justice during cross-examination by a Toronto Star reporter, who represented the publication in its application to unseal police search warrant materials.

“I don’t know if I am at the one-yard line, or in the middle of the field. It’s hard to answer that question. Something could happen tomorrow that would change my answer. It’s dynamic and it’s still active. I would have to predict the future to answer that question and I can’t do that.”

 

[dotr]

New article in the star today focused on Det Constable Yim. I found this statement interesting “...During the cross-examination, Yim said that it is possible that one day, should he retire and the case still remain open, another officer might take over. “I don’t anticipate working on this case for the rest of my life....”.

As Det Yim appears to me to be about 45 years old, the suggestion( By him) that he could retire before this case is solved is most disheartening.
His statement could also be taken to mean that he expects it will be solved before he retired, or that he expects to be pulled off the case by TPS sometime and replaced by someone else before he retires.
However, since he is the only officer working the case full time, given his accumulated knowledge, replacing him appears unlikely to me.

The article indicates that TPS has had the same theory of the case since 4 months after the murders. But despite so much video and so many interviews they seemingly just can’t seem to join enough dots to proceed further:

Where are you in the Sherman investigation? Yim was asked Friday during a court hearing.
“Sometimes I feel like I am playing football blind,” Yim told the Ontario Court of Justice during cross-examination by a Toronto Star reporter, who represented the publication in its application to unseal police search warrant materials.

“I don’t know if I am at the one-yard line, or in the middle of the field. It’s hard to answer that question. Something could happen tomorrow that would change my answer. It’s dynamic and it’s still active. I would have to predict the future to answer that question and I can’t do that.”

The lone detective and the Barry and Honey Sherman murder case
rbbm.
''Friday, Yim revealed during a court hearing regarding sealing orders on case documents that Toronto Police have held steadfast to a single “theory of the case” since four months after the murders. There are related “branches” of the theory they are also probing and having for now exhausted many domestic avenues they are looking overseas for information on the Toronto murder.

“There is one theory of the case but it is like branches of a tree. There is one main theory of the case but it can branch off into different avenues we have to explore,” said Yim, adding they are “related.”