CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

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dotr said:
The lone detective and the Barry and Honey Sherman murder case
rbbm.
''Friday, Yim revealed during a court hearing regarding sealing orders on case documents that Toronto Police have held steadfast to a single “theory of the case” since four months after the murders. There are related “branches” of the theory they are also probing and having for now exhausted many domestic avenues they are looking overseas for information on the Toronto murder.

“There is one theory of the case but it is like branches of a tree. There is one main theory of the case but it can branch off into different avenues we have to explore,” said Yim, adding they are “related.”
Click to expand...

I fear that their overriding theory of the case is that the Shermans were murdered.....:eek:
 
ldlager said:
New article in the star today focused on Det Constable Yim. I found this statement interesting “...During the cross-examination, Yim said that it is possible that one day, should he retire and the case still remain open, another officer might take over. “I don’t anticipate working on this case for the rest of my life....”.

As Det Yim appears to me to be about 45 years old, the suggestion( By him) that he could retire before this case is solved is most disheartening.
His statement could also be taken to mean that he expects it will be solved before he retired, or that he expects to be pulled off the case by TPS sometime and replaced by someone else before he retires.
However, since he is the only officer working the case full time, given his accumulated knowledge, replacing him appears unlikely to me.

The article indicates that TPS has had the same theory of the case since 4 months after the murders. But despite so much video and so many interviews they seemingly just can’t seem to join enough dots to proceed further:

Where are you in the Sherman investigation? Yim was asked Friday during a court hearing.
“Sometimes I feel like I am playing football blind,” Yim told the Ontario Court of Justice during cross-examination by a Toronto Star reporter, who represented the publication in its application to unseal police search warrant materials.

“I don’t know if I am at the one-yard line, or in the middle of the field. It’s hard to answer that question. Something could happen tomorrow that would change my answer. It’s dynamic and it’s still active. I would have to predict the future to answer that question and I can’t do that.”
Click to expand...
Yes, that was a very discouraging thing to read:

Yim said that it is possible that one day, should he retire and the case still remain open, another officer might take over. (BBM)

Keyword = MIGHT?????????????

Let's hope you are correct in thinking he meant he expects it to be solved long before he retires. One never knows if that was a quote word-for-word, or if parts may have been said at slightly different times, etc. ???? (That exact part was not in quotation marks.)

"Something could happen tomorrow that would change my answer." - that is true in ANY case, even if it JUST happened and police have NO clues and NO idea what happened. Ugh.
 
dotr said:
The lone detective and the Barry and Honey Sherman murder case
rbbm.
''Friday, Yim revealed during a court hearing regarding sealing orders on case documents that Toronto Police have held steadfast to a single “theory of the case” since four months after the murders. There are related “branches” of the theory they are also probing and having for now exhausted many domestic avenues they are looking overseas for information on the Toronto murder.

“There is one theory of the case but it is like branches of a tree. There is one main theory of the case but it can branch off into different avenues we have to explore,” said Yim, adding they are “related.”
Click to expand...

Det. Yim said it was four months into the investigation that a pattern emerged and a theory was developed. I’ll try to look back later, but did the police receive important data as a result of a warrant at the four-month mark, April, 2018?

(FWIW April was significant as daughter KS’s wedding took place that month and Barry and Honey would have been travelling had they lived. They had plans to travel to Japan in March, 2018 and Israel in April, 2018.)
ldlager said:
New article in the star today focused on Det Constable Yim. I found this statement interesting “...During the cross-examination, Yim said that it is possible that one day, should he retire and the case still remain open, another officer might take over. “I don’t anticipate working on this case for the rest of my life....”.

As Det Yim appears to me to be about 45 years old, the suggestion( By him) that he could retire before this case is solved is most disheartening.
His statement could also be taken to mean that he expects it will be solved before he retired, or that he expects to be pulled off the case by TPS sometime and replaced by someone else before he retires.
However, since he is the only officer working the case full time, given his accumulated knowledge, replacing him appears unlikely to me.

The article indicates that TPS has had the same theory of the case since 4 months after the murders. But despite so much video and so many interviews they seemingly just can’t seem to join enough dots to proceed further:

Where are you in the Sherman investigation? Yim was asked Friday during a court hearing.
“Sometimes I feel like I am playing football blind,” Yim told the Ontario Court of Justice during cross-examination by a Toronto Star reporter, who represented the publication in its application to unseal police search warrant materials.

“I don’t know if I am at the one-yard line, or in the middle of the field. It’s hard to answer that question. Something could happen tomorrow that would change my answer. It’s dynamic and it’s still active. I would have to predict the future to answer that question and I can’t do that.”
Click to expand...

It’s a small detail, but Donovan mentioned in his 2019 book that Det. Yim was in his mid-thirties. I’ve only seen one photo of him, but his serious expression might make him appear a bit older than he is....hopefully we won’t lose him from the case before it’s solved. But he seems less confident about the case being resolved and so does Donovan. Last November everyone involved sounded more confident.
 
Lexiintoronto said:
Det. Yim said it was four months into the investigation that a pattern emerged and a theory was developed. I’ll try to look back later, but did the police receive important data as a result of a warrant at the four-month mark, April, 2018?

(FWIW April was significant as daughter KS’s wedding took place that month and Barry and Honey would have been travelling had they lived. They had plans to travel to Japan in March, 2018 and Israel in April, 2018.)


It’s a small detail, but Donovan mentioned in his 2019 book that Det. Yim was in his mid-thirties. I’ve only seen one photo of him, but his serious expression might make him appear a bit older than he is....hopefully we won’t lose him from the case before it’s solved. But he seems less confident about the case being resolved and so does Donovan. Last November everyone involved sounded more confident.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I went from his picture and the words in the article that he had been a detective for 15 years. I assume you have to work your way up to detective, so I figured that would take a few years. In any event, I suspect he has a number of years until retirement.
 
RBBM
"...during cross examination Yim said that of the 637 tips police have received on a dedicated tip line launched in 2019, some have been repeats, some have been from psychics and none have been remarkable...".
 
MistyWaters said:
How does the Sherman murders relate to the pandemic? That seems a real reach IMO.
Click to expand...

rsbm

I guess you missed the part of the article article I intended to note, even though you quoted it. It seems that you ignored the complaints against Pollanen's boss Huyer and the department he oversees. So here it is again, minus the covid subject that we all obviously know has nothing to do with the Sherman autopsies.


“Additionally, the Office of the Chief Coroner (which Huyer leads) recently came under fire in a report by Ontario’s Auditor General. The December 2019 report cites a lack of oversight, unprofessional behaviour, undisclosed conflicts of interest ...".
 
casesensitive said:
rsbm

I guess you missed the part of the article article I intended to note, even though you quoted it. It seems that you ignored the complaints against Pollanen's boss Huyer and the department he oversees. So here it is again, minus the covid subject that we all obviously know has nothing to do with the Sherman autopsies.


“Additionally, the Office of the Chief Coroner (which Huyer leads) recently came under fire in a report by Ontario’s Auditor General. The December 2019 report cites a lack of oversight, unprofessional behaviour, undisclosed conflicts of interest ...".
Click to expand...

Sorry, how does the relate to the Sherman murders? Are you saying you don’t believe Sgt Det Nomes when she said three possible manner of deaths were investigated - s/s, m/s and m/m because that was my initial question to you. We also now know from the ITO and search warrant documents released by KD the investigation was not solely focused only on m/s.

Here’s the link to Ontario’s Auditor General report if you’re interested in more than a summary. It’s directed toward both the Coroners and Pathology Division.
https://www.auditor.on.ca/en/content/annualreports/arreports/en19/v1_308en19.pdf
Of note, the autopsy review process -
Figure 10: Quality Assurance Processes for Pathologists and Forensic Pathologists
Source of data: Office of the Chief Coroner and Ontario Forensic Pathology Service (Office)
 
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deugirtni said:
Yes, that was a very discouraging thing to read:

Yim said that it is possible that one day, should he retire and the case still remain open, another officer might take over. (BBM)

Keyword = MIGHT?????????????

Let's hope you are correct in thinking he meant he expects it to be solved long before he retires. One never knows if that was a quote word-for-word, or if parts may have been said at slightly different times, etc. ???? (That exact part was not in quotation marks.)

"Something could happen tomorrow that would change my answer." - that is true in ANY case, even if it JUST happened and police have NO clues and NO idea what happened. Ugh.
Click to expand...

By now Yim surely knows whatever he says in court will be quoted in an article by KD. His response was probably to a question posed by KD inquiring about the current status of the investigation even though KD can be certain he’s not going to get a straight answer. I think Yim’s reply was amusingly evasive banter, not intended to be taken literally.

The alternative response would something about protecting the integrity of the investigation, hardly worth the type on a news page.

JMO
 
MistyWaters said:
Sorry, how does the relate to the Sherman murders? Are you saying you don’t believe Sgt Det Nomes when she said three possible manner of deaths were investigated - s/s, m/s and m/m because that was my initial question to you. We also now know from the ITO and search warrant documents released by KD the investigation was not solely focused only on m/s.

Here’s the link to Ontario’s Auditor General report if you’re interested in more than a summary. It’s directed toward both the Coroners and Pathology Division.
https://www.auditor.on.ca/en/content/annualreports/arreports/en19/v1_308en19.pdf
Click to expand...

At the time of the autopsies, I truly believe that TPS regarded this case as a M/S. Price was on video from the crime scene stating that they were not looking for a perp, but of course the case would be be considered suspicious. The TPS chief later defended his statement by saying they didn't want to alarm neighbours because of a rash of thefts.

The focus of my posts related to the autopsies (not the ensuing investigation) that were performed by Dr. Pickup with the official result of an undetermined manner of death, and days later by a second pathologist autopsy finding of double homicide. I questioned if politics and LE egos had any influence with the first autopsies results, which in fact were later discounted by TPS.

I ignored your question of the TPS investigation that happened after the autopsies reports because it was not part of my questioning and has nothing to do with my concern with the Ontario forensic heads who are facing public accusations and shaming. It relates to the Sherman murders because they were responsible for signing off on the manner of death that was later rejected by LE. I am not discounting the official results as being purposefully evasive, I am only questioning if any influences contributed to the official result.
 
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Lexiintoronto said:
Det. Yim said it was four months into the investigation that a pattern emerged and a theory was developed. I’ll try to look back later, but did the police receive important data as a result of a warrant at the four-month mark, April, 2018?

(FWIW April was significant as daughter KS’s wedding took place that month and Barry and Honey would have been travelling had they lived. They had plans to travel to Japan in March, 2018 and Israel in April, 2018.)
Click to expand...

RSBM
An article published September 30, 2018 states that during KD's attendance at court the week before, he'd learned that four new judicial authorizations to search were obtained April 16th, 2018. (For those that cannot see the Star's article, try searching the article's title ("Sherman murder probe obtains seven more search warrants"), as there are almost identical articles located at other links)

The new judicial authorizations to search were approved by Pringle between April and last week. Pringle is the go-to judge for all Sherman warrants, court heard. Four new authorizations were obtained April 16, two on June 27, and one was granted Sunday, September 23.

Sherman murder probe obtains seven more search warrants
 
casesensitive said:
At the time of the autopsies, I truly believe that TPS regarded this case as a M/S. Price was on video from the crime scene stating that they were not looking for a perp, but of course the case would be be considered suspicious. The TPS chief later defended his statement by saying they didn't want to alarm neighbours because of a rash of thefts.

The focus of my posts related to the autopsies (not the ensuing investigation) that were performed by Dr. Pickup with the official result of an undetermined manner of death, and days later by a second pathologist autopsy finding of double homicide. I questioned if politics and LE egos had any influence with the first autopsies results, which in fact were later discounted by TPS.

I ignored your question of the TPS investigation that happened after the autopsies reports because it was not part of my questioning and has nothing to do with my concern with the Ontario forensic heads who are facing public accusations and shaming. It relates to the Sherman murders because they were responsible for signing off on the manner of death that was later rejected by LE. I am not discounting the official results as being purposefully evasive, I am only questioning if any influences contributed to the official result.
Click to expand...

It’s just not true that TPS and the Coroner’s Office work independently of one another during death investigations and maybe that’s a cause for confusion. They work together in a close partnership. If you recall the Millard trial, the reason LE didn’t initially pursue a death investigation, according to the Coroner’s office a homicide didn’t take place.

But I think by now this is a moot point as the autopsies were long ago completed and Sherman deaths are officially deemed a double homicide. Over time it’s absolutely common for public offices to face allegations of wrongdoing or mishandling as the topic seems to have become standard headline news reporting everywhere, but that still certainly doesn’t prove a 100% error rate.

According to Yim below, as told in court under oath I presume. In the case of a double murder staged as a m/s, it’d be no surprise for the investigation to overlap as the killer obviously intended for the deaths to appear as if a m/s took place. Proving that m/s was fabricated would be key to any future conviction. Medical testimony of that nature would be provided by the Coroners Office, not TPS who are not medical experts. JMO

Sherman murder probe obtains seven more search warrants
“During cross-examination, Yim said the murder-suicide theory was one of three police pursued in early days and is represented in the search warrant documents.

Pringle ruled she could not allow access even to "certain theories that may now have been discarded by police." She said the warrant documents are "not easily severed into discrete parts or issues. Read out of context and in isolation, bits and pieces of information have real potential to be misleading."...”
 
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MistyWaters said:
By now Yim surely knows whatever he says in court will be quoted in an article by KD. His response was probably to a question posed by KD inquiring about the current status of the investigation even though KD can be certain he’s not going to get a straight answer. I think Yim’s reply was amusingly evasive banter, not intended to be taken literally.

The alternative response would something about protecting the integrity of the investigation, hardly worth the type on a news page.

JMO
Click to expand...


Judge Leslie Pringle, who sits on the Ontario Court of Justice, and whom has granted the TPS warrants throughout the investigation, is the person who judges the TPS investigation on behalf of the public.

Detective Yim is under oath and his answers in court (asked by KD) have to be truthful and align to what he has provided to the court. There is no opportunity for game-playing in court in front of a judge.

With this in mind, I have to say that I am concerned at Yim's recent court statements on this case. (might be on the one yard line etc?). I am also surprised that TPS had a working theory four months after the murders. This is a tough case and I think we knew that from the start.
 
casesensitive said:
Judge Leslie Pringle, who sits on the Ontario Court of Justice, and whom has granted the TPS warrants throughout the investigation, is the person who judges the TPS investigation on behalf of the public.

Detective Yim is under oath and his answers in court (asked by KD) have to be truthful and align to what he has provided to the court. There is no opportunity for game-playing in court in front of a judge.

With this in mind, I have to say that I am concerned at Yim's recent court statements on this case. (might be on the one yard line etc?). I am also surprised that TPS had a working theory four months after the murders. This is a tough case and I think we knew that from the start.
Click to expand...

Do we know Yim’s recents comments were spoken during a hearing? It wouldn’t seem unusual for a reporter to ask questions of an officer before or after, if the opportunity arose.
 
MistyWaters said:
Do we know Yim’s recents comments were spoken during a hearing? It wouldn’t seem unusual for a reporter to ask questions of an officer before or after, if the opportunity arose.
Click to expand...

It is my understanding that as Kevin Donavon was the legal entity that requested the the hearing before Judge Pringle, he is allowed to question witnessess under oath in the courtroom.
 
MistyWaters said:
Do we know Yim’s recents comments were spoken during a hearing? It wouldn’t seem unusual for a reporter to ask questions of an officer before or after, if the opportunity arose.
Click to expand...

Where are you in the Sherman investigation? Yim was asked Friday during a court hearing.

“Sometimes I feel like I am playing football blind,” Yim told the Ontario Court of Justice during cross-examination by a Toronto Star reporter, who represented the publication in its application to unseal police search warrant materials.

“I don’t know if I am at the one-yard line, or in the middle of the field. It’s hard to answer that question. Something could happen tomorrow that would change my answer. It’s dynamic and it’s still active. I would have to predict the future to answer that question and I can’t do that.”
....
Is this this investigation a priority of the Toronto Police? Yim was asked.

“Yes, it is,” Yim responded. During the cross-examination, Yim said that it is possible that one day, should he retire and the case still remain open, another officer might take over. “I don’t anticipate working on this case for the rest of my life.”

https://foxnewsupdates.com/news/wor...-and-the-barry-and-honey-sherman-murder-case/
 
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