CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

[ollie2]

Hey all, first time poster. I've been quite interested in the case. I read Kevin Donovan's The Billionaire Murders and try to keep up to tabs on new developments.

Frank D'Angelo's involvement is something I go back and forth on. On the one hand, Sherman was his golden goose, and wouldn't want to lose his steady flow of revenue. On the other hand, Sherman's tap may have been running out, and Sherman's son Jonathan demanded Barry stop funding Frank's enterprises. Maybe Barry knew something shady about Frank's many business dealings and was about to go to the police? An alternative theory is that Frank did not want Barry killed, but Frank got Barry involved in a deal with shady people, and it went awry.

There is obviously a lot of speculation that the conspirator(s) hired an international hitman. One thing to consider is that the conspirator(s) may have tried to evade suspicion by having the hitman fly into an airport outside of Toronto-Pearson. For instance, flying the hitman into the Montreal-Trudeau airport and making the 4-5 hour drive to Toronto, completing the job, and then heading back to Montreal to fly back to their home country.

Given what I understand regarding F DA and Barry-Those closest to BS never understood how or why BS funded FDA's crazy and money loosing enterprises. FDA claims that they were best buddies and that they both ended their phone calls saying "Love ya buddy." (eye roll-BS was not as described as an overtly emotional person.)
BS was the golden goose to FDA so on the face of the matter, it wouldn't make sense that he would want him dead. That said, maybe FDA was told he was cut off and....(speculation as a theory.) If such was the case, I have wondered if FDA had gone to the Sherman home to plead a case or ask for more money and things got out of hand.

I do believe however more so that the Shermans were murdered by hitmen/man but would FDA have the funds to pay for such if he organized a hit? I don't think he is worth more than a million. Your possible theory of BS getting involved with some shady peeps via FDA is interesting. All speculation on my part, but I too go back to FDA. Although, he isn't the only one and unrelated to FDA that I wonder about.

 

[newclues]

Possibly, but dragging two individuals using zip ties would have caused significant abrasions on the wrists that would have been more noticable to Pickup during the first autopsy. I think they were handcuffed to control them during the time they were alive. I believe they were removed to reduce any possible DNA from the killers, not to suggest a murder/suicide scenario.

How were they dragged then? If only one person killed them both, it would have required some strength to do it all.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

There are details missing from the drawing like bs glasses, facial features etc. Maybe KD will comment on the coats in a future article

rsbm

There are details left out.

This is from an article that quotes some ITOs (emphasis mine):

‘“Their arms were behind them and their bodies were being held up by black belts wrapped around their necks and tied to a railing approximately” three feet (just under a metre) above the deck of the pool. The documents show the Shermans were positioned with their backs to the pool, feet almost touching the wall on one side of the pool. Barry’s wrists were “restrained” at some point, but no ties or other restraints were found at the crime scene…

…The documents also reveal for the first time a reference to “bloodstains on the victims,” an observation from a forensics detective that is not further explained.’

Sherman murder detectives get hits from cellular tower ‘dumps’ — sending probe overseas

Police theorize that the “walking man” seen in video surveillance, or someone he was communicating with, was either outside of Canada at the time, or left Canada after the murders.

www.thestar.com

The drawing has their arms by their sides.


Image from: https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/ca...gist-and-police-call-it-a-murder-suicide.html

 

[WINDSOR]

Hey all, first time poster. I've been quite interested in the case. I read Kevin Donovan's The Billionaire Murders and try to keep up to tabs on new developments.

Frank D'Angelo's involvement is something I go back and forth on. On the one hand, Sherman was his golden goose, and wouldn't want to lose his steady flow of revenue. On the other hand, Sherman's tap may have been running out, and Sherman's son Jonathan demanded Barry stop funding Frank's enterprises. Maybe Barry knew something shady about Frank's many business dealings and was about to go to the police? An alternative theory is that Frank did not want Barry killed, but Frank got Barry involved in a deal with shady people, and it went awry.

There is obviously a lot of speculation that the conspirator(s) hired an international hitman. One thing to consider is that the conspirator(s) may have tried to evade suspicion by having the hitman fly into an airport outside of Toronto-Pearson. For instance, flying the hitman into the Montreal-Trudeau airport and making the 4-5 hour drive to Toronto, completing the job, and then heading back to Montreal to fly back to their home country.

With Barry dead, Frank D'Angelo loses all the funding, as you can be sure the heirs are not interested in Frank's projects. If anything Frank wants to keep Barry alive.

Regarding the international hitman and potential exit routes. I believe you are probably accurate on this idea. I myself would drive and cross at the Lewiston border crossing, then take a flight from Buffalo to JFK airport in New York, then on to my eventual overseas destination. This would be a relatively easy exit plan.

 

[FromGermany1]

rsbm

There are details left out.

This is from an article that quotes some ITOs (emphasis mine):

‘“Their arms were behind them and their bodies were being held up by black belts wrapped around their necks and tied to a railing approximately” three feet (just under a metre) above the deck of the pool. The documents show the Shermans were positioned with their backs to the pool, feet almost touching the wall on one side of the pool. Barry’s wrists were “restrained” at some point, but no ties or other restraints were found at the crime scene…

…The documents also reveal for the first time a reference to “bloodstains on the victims,” an observation from a forensics detective that is not further explained.’

Sherman murder detectives get hits from cellular tower ‘dumps’ — sending probe overseas

Police theorize that the “walking man” seen in video surveillance, or someone he was communicating with, was either outside of Canada at the time, or left Canada after the murders.

www.thestar.com

The drawing has their arms by their sides.

View attachment 350170
Image from: https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/ca...gist-and-police-call-it-a-murder-suicide.html

Arms not behind them in a stripped down coat (as you said) AND their backs not positioned to the pool. In addition: not both of them had their wrists restrained in the process at some point, but now only Barry's wrists.
It can't have been an easy task to position the victims this way without letting them fall into the pool, I think. WHY such a complicated procedure, I'm asking myself? A (nearly) bloodless death, instead a "shocking" (not embarrassing) staging after death. What feelings were expressed at the crime scene?

 

[branmuffin]

How were they dragged then? If only one person killed them both, it would have required some strength to do it all.

We have no idea how many individuals were involved in the murders. You may be assuming that the drag marks in the basement pool area are those of dead weight.

My personal opinion is that both Sherman's were probably submissive in the situation until the realization that they were actually going to be killed. I don't think it would take a lot to coerce someone you know personally to do your bidding whether it was to walk up or down stairs that you usually had problems navigating. I think the ties were used to show the perps meant business.

You can spend a lot of time in denial when someone who you wouldn't expect to do you physical harm can and will do so, even if the coup de grace is by a stranger. If it sounds like I think there is a personal aspect to these murders you'd be absolutely correct.

 

[JDG]

They may also have been overcome by something like ether, dragged to the pool area and killed.

Once rendered unconscious, there is no resistance to whatever the perps want to do to you.

I doubt Honey had it in her to be submissive, esp if she figured they were there to harm her. She would have fought like a lioness, ergo the idea that she was unconscious before being killled.

I believe Barry was rendered unconscious as soon as he came in from the garage.

It was all over rather quickly, except for posing them and the leg time of their arrivals. IMO

 

[newclues]

Now that the drawings show how they were found posed by their pool, there is no way that this looks like a murder-suicide since the length of the belts and the height of the railing could not have killed anyone that way. If BS had killed HS and then himself, it would have been more expected that HS would have been set in behind BS rather than before BS on the railing. Since BS may have been killed while being in the basement closer to the pool, he was placed there first while HS may have been killed upstairs which is farther from the pool. The posing may have been more of a statement that someone was making as if "they were hanging by the pool". This is all very shocking and disturbing.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I agree with you, I think the killer knew the layout of the house.

But the floor plans of the house were public because the house was for sale. They’d also know about the railings in the pool room from the real estate photos.

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the mention of the railings in the photo,

it strikes me as odd that the bodies are somewhat horizontal to the side of the pool, they are not backing toward or facing the pool edge or wall, but they are "set up" more alongside the pool edge more than beside each other? (like if you sat them side by side and then swung the legs so the bodies were showing side views if you compare the diagram to the real estate photo of the pool area and picture the steps where the bodies were found the feet would have been poking out in to the "walkway" described.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Would you handcuff them to maybe make it easier to pull the bodies to the swimming pool? Just a thought.

I wondered as well and then thought no, I do not believe the restraints left overly visible marks, if someone used them to drag the bodies I would assume the wrists would have been very bruised and or torn skin and marked much more than reports show.

My husband is amazed I can change the furniture around a room without his help. I have learned to be crafty, I have laid a blanket on the floor (carpet or wood or tile) and slid things like couches, dressers, tables, and king-size bed frames many many feet with no marks on the floor or damage to the item. I think they could have used winter coats to drag them

This story is really becoming weirder and feeling like a conspiracy. I remind myself that KD was assigned this case as an investigative reporter. All other media outlets now watch what the Star report and then they follow suit. I think someone at the Star noticed that those early media reports were that police had already formed an opinion of what happened well before the autopsy, and after the autopsy indecisive in the manner of death for BS or even a full detective investigation, this is not normal for TPS to release this much detail in the first 24/48 hours and especially for a case involving billionaires that the family is already hiring a defensive layer from the rest of the world, they sent him to see whats going on. KD has mentioned a few times he is reporting on this case because he thinks something was amiss very early in the case, and that he feels that the TPS needs to have added pressure to be an open book about this case, KD indicated that a judge agreed that he should keep this pressure on. I think that is the story that the Star is after.

The "who" is involved in and muddying this case is so clouded, was TPS just overwhelmed with an existing caseload? was the media used to publish misinformation from day 1? are the media walking a tight line and using small facts to formulate more for a story? Did people interview with reporters or detectives and place these tidbits of detail? if so why? tidbits like the coats on? glasses on? both seated positions? (IMO if someone they interviewed said anything about the two seated beside each other sitting up- or similar to the statues, that would be before rigor and a giveaway of crime scene knowledge only someone who was in the pool room less than 36 hours)

Who told these false facts, did reporters elaborate on info they heard through the grapevine, or did they make it up. The amount of data that we have thought for 4 years was the situation they endured that nite is not accurate and is very disheartening.

Why report they had winter coats on and they were half-dressed in them? What purpose does this lie fulfill? Why say they were found sitting beside each other when clearly HS was not found in a fully seated position but rather laid out on display almost horizontally beside BS.

I am still marveled every time I read that the pool was green and not clean and the cover was on? what smell would a green pool create indoors? the house was for sale, and showings had already started? was the selling plan stating this was a fixer-upper? It was noted that the potential buying foreign couple who saw the bodies, had no interest in the pool but were shown and looked anyway. (IMO this is why they were mad - at the agents, the couple did not have any interest to see it and the agent(s) took them there anyway - maybe to just discuss the options of filling it in or expanding the underground garage)

Or maybe it was all true and this report is not, how are we to know.

 

[Monkey House]

Wow, I can't believe so many items were left behind in that house! Even artwork and photographs. I find that odd, no one bothered to do much of anything it seems. Maybe it was to painful for the kids to clean out the house?
But they could have easily paid someone to clean out everything.

I also wonder why were there holes punched in the bedroom walls? Could it be someone was taking out their anger and frustration? (after their deaths) For example: Someone was sitting there thinking about their childhood and how they were treated, OR were frustrated or angry the way the investigation was going so in a rage they punched holes in the walls?

It was also noted those creepy statues went down with the house.

hi there, trying to find out wht happened tothose creepy statues...where did you find out that the statues were demolished with the house?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

hi there, trying to find out wht happened tothose creepy statues...where did you find out that the statues were demolished with the house?

Not the OP, but I remembered the article.

“He did not go to the front room where two life-sized sculptures made of garbage (a gift from friends to Honey in the late 1970s) sat. A Sherman family member told the Star the four children found the sculptures “creepy” and they went down with the house.


A Star story revealed an eerie similarity between how the Shermans were posed, in a seated position, and the sculptures. Like the male sculpture, Barry had one leg crossed over the other.”

An ‘urban explorer’ entered Barry and Honey Sherman’s home before demolition and saw papers that ‘looked like evidence’

One Saturday afternoon in May of 2019, when nobody was looking, a man slipped under the garage door of the late Barry and Honey Sherman’s home.

www.toronto.com

 

[Monkey House]

Not the OP, but I remembered the article.

“He did not go to the front room where two life-sized sculptures made of garbage (a gift from friends to Honey in the late 1970s) sat. A Sherman family member told the Star the four children found the sculptures “creepy” and they went down with the house.


A Star story revealed an eerie similarity between how the Shermans were posed, in a seated position, and the sculptures. Like the male sculpture, Barry had one leg crossed over the other.”

An ‘urban explorer’ entered Barry and Honey Sherman’s home before demolition and saw papers that ‘looked like evidence’

One Saturday afternoon in May of 2019, when nobody was looking, a man slipped under the garage door of the late Barry and Honey Sherman’s home.

www.toronto.com

much appreciated

 

[ldlager]

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the mention of the railings in the photo,
View attachment 350360
it strikes me as odd that the bodies are somewhat horizontal to the side of the pool, they are not backing toward or facing the pool edge or wall, but they are "set up" more alongside the pool edge more than beside each other? (like if you sat them side by side and then swung the legs so the bodies were showing side views if you compare the diagram to the real estate photo of the pool area and picture the steps where the bodies were found the feet would have been poking out in to the "walkway" described.

The bodies are attached to the closest railing to the rest of the room And the doorway. I can’t see any reason why the killer would have pulled them or carried them to a railing that was farther away if hanging them from a railing was the objective. That’s just more work.

 

[ldlager]

I wondered as well and then thought no, I do not believe the restraints left overly visible marks, if someone used them to drag the bodies I would assume the wrists would have been very bruised and or torn skin and marked much more than reports show.

My husband is amazed I can change the furniture around a room without his help. I have learned to be crafty, I have laid a blanket on the floor (carpet or wood or tile) and slid things like couches, dressers, tables, and king-size bed frames many many feet with no marks on the floor or damage to the item. I think they could have used winter coats to drag them

This story is really becoming weirder and feeling like a conspiracy. I remind myself that KD was assigned this case as an investigative reporter. All other media outlets now watch what the Star report and then they follow suit. I think someone at the Star noticed that those early media reports were that police had already formed an opinion of what happened well before the autopsy, and after the autopsy indecisive in the manner of death for BS or even a full detective investigation, this is not normal for TPS to release this much detail in the first 24/48 hours and especially for a case involving billionaires that the family is already hiring a defensive layer from the rest of the world, they sent him to see whats going on. KD has mentioned a few times he is reporting on this case because he thinks something was amiss very early in the case, and that he feels that the TPS needs to have added pressure to be an open book about this case, KD indicated that a judge agreed that he should keep this pressure on. I think that is the story that the Star is after.

The "who" is involved in and muddying this case is so clouded, was TPS just overwhelmed with an existing caseload? was the media used to publish misinformation from day 1? are the media walking a tight line and using small facts to formulate more for a story? Did people interview with reporters or detectives and place these tidbits of detail? if so why? tidbits like the coats on? glasses on? both seated positions? (IMO if someone they interviewed said anything about the two seated beside each other sitting up- or similar to the statues, that would be before rigor and a giveaway of crime scene knowledge only someone who was in the pool room less than 36 hours)

Who told these false facts, did reporters elaborate on info they heard through the grapevine, or did they make it up. The amount of data that we have thought for 4 years was the situation they endured that nite is not accurate and is very disheartening.

Why report they had winter coats on and they were half-dressed in them? What purpose does this lie fulfill? Why say they were found sitting beside each other when clearly HS was not found in a fully seated position but rather laid out on display almost horizontally beside BS.

I am still marveled every time I read that the pool was green and not clean and the cover was on? what smell would a green pool create indoors? the house was for sale, and showings had already started? was the selling plan stating this was a fixer-upper? It was noted that the potential buying foreign couple who saw the bodies, had no interest in the pool but were shown and looked anyway. (IMO this is why they were mad - at the agents, the couple did not have any interest to see it and the agent(s) took them there anyway - maybe to just discuss the options of filling it in or expanding the underground garage)

Or maybe it was all true and this report is not, how are we to know.

With respect to the coats, KD wrote: “… She is fully dressed, wearing dark pants, a blouse and a blue vest…”. IMO depending on the type of vest this could be considered a coat. Many people wear a down filled or insulated type vest outside. KD makes no mention of what BS was wearing in the pictures KD claims to have seen, so I don’t think we can conclude that BS was not wearing a coat. In both cases, based on what I perceive to be the positioning of their arms in the rudimentary drawing, imo it is possible their arms were restrained by their outerwear being somewhat pulled back. We just don’t have enough info yet. IMO.
I have not gone back to the very early days to see who first mentioned the coats. Was it in LE legal filings? Did Greenspan mention it it in one of his speeches? I rewatched the Gomes press conference and she doesn’t mention coats.

 

[branmuffin]

I wondered as well and then thought no, I do not believe the restraints left overly visible marks, if someone used them to drag the bodies I would assume the wrists would have been very bruised and or torn skin and marked much more than reports show.

My husband is amazed I can change the furniture around a room without his help. I have learned to be crafty, I have laid a blanket on the floor (carpet or wood or tile) and slid things like couches, dressers, tables, and king-size bed frames many many feet with no marks on the floor or damage to the item. I think they could have used winter coats to drag them

This story is really becoming weirder and feeling like a conspiracy. I remind myself that KD was assigned this case as an investigative reporter. All other media outlets now watch what the Star report and then they follow suit. I think someone at the Star noticed that those early media reports were that police had already formed an opinion of what happened well before the autopsy, and after the autopsy indecisive in the manner of death for BS or even a full detective investigation, this is not normal for TPS to release this much detail in the first 24/48 hours and especially for a case involving billionaires that the family is already hiring a defensive layer from the rest of the world, they sent him to see whats going on. KD has mentioned a few times he is reporting on this case because he thinks something was amiss very early in the case, and that he feels that the TPS needs to have added pressure to be an open book about this case, KD indicated that a judge agreed that he should keep this pressure on. I think that is the story that the Star is after.

The "who" is involved in and muddying this case is so clouded, was TPS just overwhelmed with an existing caseload? was the media used to publish misinformation from day 1? are the media walking a tight line and using small facts to formulate more for a story? Did people interview with reporters or detectives and place these tidbits of detail? if so why? tidbits like the coats on? glasses on? both seated positions? (IMO if someone they interviewed said anything about the two seated beside each other sitting up- or similar to the statues, that would be before rigor and a giveaway of crime scene knowledge only someone who was in the pool room less than 36 hours)

Who told these false facts, did reporters elaborate on info they heard through the grapevine, or did they make it up. The amount of data that we have thought for 4 years was the situation they endured that nite is not accurate and is very disheartening.

Why report they had winter coats on and they were half-dressed in them? What purpose does this lie fulfill? Why say they were found sitting beside each other when clearly HS was not found in a fully seated position but rather laid out on display almost horizontally beside BS.

I am still marveled every time I read that the pool was green and not clean and the cover was on? what smell would a green pool create indoors? the house was for sale, and showings had already started? was the selling plan stating this was a fixer-upper? It was noted that the potential buying foreign couple who saw the bodies, had no interest in the pool but were shown and looked anyway. (IMO this is why they were mad - at the agents, the couple did not have any interest to see it and the agent(s) took them there anyway - maybe to just discuss the options of filling it in or expanding the underground garage)

Or maybe it was all true and this report is not, how are we to know.

I still believe that Honey knew the house was going to be sold as a knock down for the land and a new building. I doubt Barry felt that way, though. He wouldn't have been bothering with the home inspection report if he did. The property without the house sold for over $4 million dollars; when the house was standing it was on the market for $6 million. Razing the home did the buyers a huge favour since the cost would have been staggering.

I also don't think the Star's forensic artist's rendition of the crime scene without the details of outerwear means that that information re the coats was incorrect. I believe the sketch was to to show the orientation of the bodies in regards to the swimming pool and the postures of each body.

 

[dotr]

With respect to the coats, KD wrote: “… She is fully dressed, wearing dark pants, a blouse and a blue vest…”. IMO depending on the type of vest this could be considered a coat. Many people wear a down filled or insulated type vest outside. KD makes no mention of what BS was wearing in the pictures KD claims to have seen, so I don’t think we can conclude that BS was not wearing a coat. In both cases, based on what I perceive to be the positioning of their arms in the rudimentary drawing, imo it is possible their arms were restrained by their outerwear being somewhat pulled back. We just don’t have enough info yet. IMO.
I have not gone back to the very early days to see who first mentioned the coats. Was it in LE legal filings? Did Greenspan mention it it in one of his speeches? I rewatched the Gomes press conference and she doesn’t mention coats.

This is one of the earlier reports concerning BS' coat.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/shermans-murder-investigator-toronto-1.4878887

Oct 26, 2018
''Greenspan offered some details about how the Shermans were found, noting that ligatures were wrapped around their necks and then around the pool railing, which forced them into an upright position. Barry's legs were outstretched, with one crossed over another. He was also still wearing his glasses, and the sleeves of his jacket were pulled behind him, which would have restricted the use of his arms.''

''Lawyer Brian Greenspan announces a reward of up to $10M for info and prosecution into the murders of Barry and Honey Sherman.''

 

[FromGermany1]

The bodies are attached to the closest railing to the rest of the room And the doorway. I can’t see any reason why the killer would have pulled them or carried them to a railing that was farther away if hanging them from a railing was the objective. That’s just more work.

I can't imagine, what might have happened in a long time ago, but would it be possible, that exactly this railing (and not one of the other parts) had a (traumatic?) meaning to the killer? Perhaps the more or less upright position of the victims was a reproduction of an old scene also?
It would be treacherous and I don't know, if that had been risked by the killer (client of hitman), but ......

 

[deugirtni]

Is KD starting to get mixed up with his info?

The real estate pics which were I believe taken and published just prior to the murders, show the pool with a solar blanket to keep the heat in the heated pool, and there is no indication of the pool looking skanky and green. To me, that is ridiculous and not believable. I wonder where that piece of info came from? The house was for sale, it was actively being shown, etc., there's no way it would've been green.. it's not like these people didn't have people to keep the pool looking good. It may have been a bit skanky and possibly starting to turn green by the time the bodies were discovered after not being tended to for x number of days(?), but even that is doubtful that it would turn to that level that quickly. KD seems to be mixing up prior info given about the pool, rather than crimescene info about the pool, imo. (He tells police, in his interview two weeks after the murders, that he was aware the bodies were found near the swimming pool, but that to his knowledge Barry and Honey never went down there and that the pool was “green.” :
People had reason to ‘hurt’ Barry and Honey Sherman, son tells Toronto police in early days of the investigation) versus: (The location of the bodies is the most remote part of the Sherman house, and the pool was rarely used — the water was green, the pool cover was on, and the room had not been cleaned for three weeks. My speculation is that this area was chosen so that it would be a considerable amount of time before they were discovered. : The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?)

Confusing also, as to, if the wrist binding markings were not visible on the skin, then why would Pickup have taken samples/biopsies of the wrist skin? Surely he didn't remove all of their skin to keep as samples of nothing, but yet he kept those wrist skin samples, presumably for a reason, .. why? Why would it have taken another more experienced ME to say, yes, that skin and the underlying tissue is showing signs of having been bound, good thing you just happened to cut off that skin and keep it for no reason as evidence. AFAIK taking the wrist skin off during autopsy is not something that's done as a matter of course during all autopsies, like other things are. wth? (During the dual autopsies, Chiasson also paid close attention to the wrists. When he began his examination of the bodies, he had noted that skin biopsies had been taken from the wrists, which Pickup had done to determine the age of the markings. It appeared they were fresh, but a laboratory test would narrow the time frame. The bodies had remained undiscovered for two days, however, which might skew the timeline. Chiasson consulted Pickup's photos. From the abrasions that were present in the photographs, it looked, and Pickup agreed, like some sort of rope or plastic tie had bound the wrists. Barry and Honey Sherman: how the second autopsy revealed it was a double murder) Current article: (Chiasson keyed in on two things that Pickup had spotted, but not fully appreciated. These are apparent in the autopsy photos viewed by the Star. First, damage to tissue under the skin of the Shermans’ wrists that indicated they had been bound at the wrists. As forensic sources explained to the Star, when pressure is applied to a person’s skin, when they are alive, this causes broken blood vessels and bruising under the skin. In the case of the Shermans, the marks were not readily apparent on the outside of the skin, but Chiasson noted the damage to blood vessels under the skin around the wrist, indicating to him the Shermans had been tied up. The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?)

The prior noted comparison between the display of the bodies and the two art statues in the basement - wasn't it just KD's own theory that the bodies may have appeared to mimick the statues? To me, that has no basis in fact whatsoever and is just simply someone's imagination, whether KD's or someone else's, trying to look for a reason why the bodies may have been displayed the way they were. imo. (In the case of the male sculpture and Barry Sherman, both had one leg crossed over the other. The sculpture’s left leg was crossed over the right. Neither the police nor the family’s private investigation team have publicly said which of Barry’s legs was crossed over the other, but a Sherman private investigation source told the Star a year ago that his right leg was crossed over his left. In the case of the female sculpture and Honey Sherman, the female sculpture had one leg crossed, whereas Honey’s legs were in front of her and uncrossed. The Shermans’s bodies were found seated on the floor, with their legs in front of them. The sculptures were seated on raised speakers, and had their legs dangling, as if on a chair, which is how they were constructed — the legs were fixed and could not be extended. The female sculpture’s arms were at its side, the same as the way Honey was found. Barry’s arms were by his side, pulled back slightly by the sleeves of his bomber jacket, while the male sculpture had its hands resting on the crossed leg. : Barry and Honey Sherman’s bodies were found posed like the sculptures in their basement)

We've been told for years that the couple were wearing their 'jackets'/outerwear, and that the shoulders were pulled back, which made it difficult for the victims' arms to move. Now we see a crimescene drawing with no coats and no arms being held back. Which is it? (The Shermans were wearing winter coats that were pushed back away from the shoulders and down, which would have the effect of immobilizing the arms.: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/01/19/barry-and-honey-sherman-were-murdered-sources-say.html)

The pictures created in my mind after all we've read had always led me to surmise the bodies were seated with their legs facing toward the back wall of the pool room, so it surprises me to see them attached to the diagonal railing which meant their legs were blocking the walkway beside the pool... wouldn't that have been awkward for the killer(s) to place them there rather than the next railing over? To me, it seems like they would've had to play stepsies over the bodies in the position they're shown in that drawing?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I still believe that Honey knew the house was going to be sold as a knock down for the land and a new building. I doubt Barry felt that way, though. He wouldn't have been bothering with the home inspection report if he did. The property without the house sold for over $4 million dollars; when the house was standing it was on the market for $6 million. Razing the home did the buyers a huge favour since the cost would have been staggering.

I also don't think the Star's forensic artist's rendition of the crime scene without the details of outerwear means that that information re the coats was incorrect. I believe the sketch was to to show the orientation of the bodies in regards to the swimming pool and the postures of each body.

Very possibly true. With the lead-up intro, KD wrote I interpreted this as what he gathered from all of the people who actually saw the bodies before any outsiders arrived.

It was really cold that night and if BS was grabbed as he walked in the door and still had the coat on why not show it in the drawing? they describe clothing seen from 40 feet away. A vest to me is not a winter coat for how cold and wintery it was that night, nor does it have sleeves to pull the arms back. The drawing clearly has the hands showing palms up beside the thigh. Maybe only the gardener who went close enough to see faces gave most clothing details?

The coats are still very curious to me. If they were not wearing their winter coats, where were the coats? The staff assumed the Shermans left for Flordia early or were not at home. To me, that suggests the winter coats were not hung up or laid on a chair etc. as usual. Same for the footwear, I assume it was the outdoor footwear they still had on, again I assume staff did not see it by the door and assume someone was home.