CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

[Lexiintoronto]

There are details missing from the drawing like bs glasses, facial features etc. Maybe KD will comment on the coats in a future article

That’s possible, but he described everything HS wore except an outer coat.

AK mentioned in her police statement that HS wore slip on shoes in the home. (KD said in the article that everyone was uncertain.)

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The article in the Star has some interesting new details that I was unaware of, such as the fact that the pool was at the rear of the house and that it had not been used for some time; the room was rarely cleaned because it was not used. The author speculates that the killer(s) chose that part of the house because it would likely be some time before the bodies were discovered (in fact, they were discovered two days later by a real estate agent showing the house to prospective buyers). This means that the killer(s) was quite familiar with the house, not only knowing where the pool was located but also knowing that almost nobody went there. That would narrow the field of suspects, wouldn't it?

I agree with you, I think the killer knew the layout of the house.

But the floor plans of the house were public because the house was for sale. They’d also know about the railings in the pool room from the real estate photos.

 

[dotr]

Star Editorial Board: New evidence obtained by the Star shows the investigation of the Sherman murders was bungled from the start

‘Four and a half years after the murders of Barry and Honey Sherman, the identity of whoever was responsible is still a mystery. But it’s clear the case was bungled right from the get-go.’

www.thestar.com

By Star Editorial Board
June 16, 2022

 

[ldlager]

Big Thank you!

still no mention of these coats that we heard in the beginning, where did that come from, it is mentioned in this article

Who killed Barry and Honey Sherman? A new book offers fascinating insights. - Macleans.ca

Kevin Donovan, the chief investigative reporter at the Toronto Star, talks about the unique investigation, the family and why he believes the case will be solved

www.macleans.ca

edit to add this article

It’s been a year since Barry and Honey Sherman were killed. There are so many questions. So few answers

The killing of a Toronto pharmaceutical tycoon and his wife made headlines around the world. Now, the culprit’s identity seems more elusive than ever – and the police face urgent questions about how they investigated the case

www.theglobeandmail.com

it really states it:

Counting further against the murder-suicide theory was the scene itself: The Shermans died from what police described as “ligature neck compression,” and had been found hanging from a low railing beside their indoor swimming pool with belts around their necks, their legs outstretched and their winter coats pulled back over their arms. The scene’s arrangement conveyed a baroque drama and would have been physically challenging to compose – which didn’t accord with either Barry’s personality or physical capabilities. Beyond that, it didn’t look like a murder-suicide scene. Nothing about it made sense.

why would the artist not include a winter coat if they were in them? they show BS legs crossed at his ankles and the details of shoes, pants, and what appear to be just an upper body, no shirt sleeve end like you see the pant leg hem not a bulky winter coat?

It makes me think the winter coat detail is untrue, if so why say that, who started that rumor? it was said by someone who the reporter felt was legit, so the reporter felt they had inside knowledge of the crime scene? why suggest this?

There are details missing from the drawing like bs glasses, facial features etc. Maybe KD will comment on the coats in a future article

That’s possible, but he described everything HS wore except an outer coat.

AK mentioned in her police statement that HS wore slip on shoes in the home. (KD said in the article that everyone was uncertain.)

i believe the family was asked whether Hs was in the habit of taking her “street shoes“ off when she arrived home. The article says she had slip on shoeson when her body was found. She could have been wearing them when she arrived home, or else put them on once in the house.

 

[branmuffin]

One thing I find confusing in this article is this:

"Sources say that based on an examination of the crime scene, it is most likely that the Shermans were not killed at the spot where they were found. One theory is that Honey was surprised on the main floor when she arrived home that night, and killed there and brought down to the basement swimming pool room."

and the following paragraph:

"Barry’s leather winter gloves and a home inspection report he had promised to mark up and bring home to his real estate agent were found scattered in the hallway as if they had been dropped. It is possible, sources say, that as Barry walked out of the garage door he saw Honey (who was likely already dead) in the hall and then Barry was attacked and killed, dropping his gloves and the home inspection report."


If both Honey and Barry were killed immediately after they entered the home what was the point of putting hand restraints on them? I don't think they were killed immediately.

I believe whoever killed them wanted them alive for awhile so they could get information from them. Whether than was some kind of personal information, like the location of a will for Honey or some business information from Barry regarding proprietary information regarding the business, I have no idea.

It makes no sense to handcuff an individual if they are dead. I remember reading once that LE handcuffed Jeffrey Dahmer after he had been killed; they kept them on during the autopsy as if he was some kind of superhuman or a demon.

Honey and Barry were not killers or evil people; they were extremely rich and both generous and vindictive when it came to their friends and relatives. Barry was a business bully who reveled in the fight for control of generic drug products. Any and all of the above could be reasons enough for a murder of both.

I really wonder whether these murders will ever be solved. I am disappointed in the TPS and their initial premise that these deaths were murder/suicide when all evidence pointed to a double murder. I struggle to understand the logic of steadfastly claiming for nearly 6 weeks the alternative. It puts a target on them, IMO, for all the wrong reasons.

 

[branmuffin]

What strikes me odd, is JS has appeared to present himself as his 'own man'. He has his own businesses, his own sources of income, his own independent life, even his own family. Why in the world is JS relying on his father to fund a surrogacy? Based on the numbers quoted, a very expensive surrogacy at that.

Either JS felt he could not afford the surrogacy, or felt his dad was a soft touch and would pay for it, or JS already felt he was entitled to the Sherfam money.

According to this article, surrogacy costs between $110,000 to $170,000 per surrogacy. JS has two children, the costs aren't outside the norm. The children are both JS's and FM's children.

Price of US Surrogacy – Surrogacy Costs – Las Vegas Surrogacy Experts

Want more information about the price of US surrogacy? Our Las Vegas surrogacy experts explain what to expect financially when relying on surrogacy.

fertilitycenterlv.com

I believe JS got his parents to pay for his children's surrogacy because his parents had used surrogates for 3 of their 4 children. Since he was gay, there wasn't going to be a biological mother on the scene. He may have used Honey's inability to have successful pregnancies to show how similar their circumstances were albeit for different reasons.

 

[casesensitive]

There are details missing from the drawing like bs glasses, facial features etc. Maybe KD will comment on the coats in a future article

KD knew that the artist's actual crime scene diagram wouldn't agree with his prior reporting about the crime scene, as you noted. He said it was a No explanation from KD abou BS's glasses the coats pulled down behind their backs were missing the

 

[casesensitive]

KD knew that the artist's actual crime scene diagram wouldn't agree with his prior reporting about the crime scene, as you noted. He said it was a No explanation from KD abou BS's glasses the coats pulled down behind their backs were missing the

Sorry, my computer keeps freezing up and I can't correct my text. I'll try later.

 

[Lonicera]

How old was JS when he asked his father to pay for the 2 surrogacies? Was he financially independent? Did he have a trade or a professional career?
I wonder about his relationship with his parents: strange to ask his father to pay for his two babies ( even if the father is rich ).

 

[Ssschu]

What was the motive behind TPS classifying their deaths as murder/suicide right from the beginning when it was so obviously a double homicide? That piece of this puzzle is baffling but seems important.

Also, why didn't the Sherman children give TPS the results of the autopsy they had done independently on 12/20/17? I thought they wanted TPS to investigate it as a double homicide so it makes no sense to withhold that information. TPS didn't find find out the results of the second autopsy until a month after it was done and they found out from KD. That changed the course of the investigation from murder/suicide to double homicide.

Soooo many questions...

 

[ldlager]

What was the motive behind TPS classifying their deaths as murder/suicide right from the beginning when it was so obviously a double homicide? That piece of this puzzle is baffling but seems important.

Also, why didn't the Sherman children give TPS the results of the autopsy they had done independently on 12/20/17? I thought they wanted TPS to investigate it as a double homicide so it makes no sense to withhold that information. TPS didn't find find out the results of the second autopsy until a month after it was done and they found out from KD. That changed the course of the investigation from murder/suicide to double homicide.

Soooo many questions...

The police don’t determine the cause of death. The first pathologist, Pickup, attended the second autopsy and presumably got the results Of that autopsy. TPS refused an invitation to attend the second autopsy

 

[ldlager]

One thing I find confusing in this article is this:

"Sources say that based on an examination of the crime scene, it is most likely that the Shermans were not killed at the spot where they were found. One theory is that Honey was surprised on the main floor when she arrived home that night, and killed there and brought down to the basement swimming pool room."

and the following paragraph:

"Barry’s leather winter gloves and a home inspection report he had promised to mark up and bring home to his real estate agent were found scattered in the hallway as if they had been dropped. It is possible, sources say, that as Barry walked out of the garage door he saw Honey (who was likely already dead) in the hall and then Barry was attacked and killed, dropping his gloves and the home inspection report."


If both Honey and Barry were killed immediately after they entered the home what was the point of putting hand restraints on them? I don't think they were killed immediately.

I believe whoever killed them wanted them alive for awhile so they could get information from them. Whether than was some kind of personal information, like the location of a will for Honey or some business information from Barry regarding proprietary information regarding the business, I have no idea.

It makes no sense to handcuff an individual if they are dead. I remember reading once that LE handcuffed Jeffrey Dahmer after he had been killed; they kept them on during the autopsy as if he was some kind of superhuman or a demon.

Honey and Barry were not killers or evil people; they were extremely rich and both generous and vindictive when it came to their friends and relatives. Barry was a business bully who reveled in the fight for control of generic drug products. Any and all of the above could be reasons enough for a murder of both.

I really wonder whether these murders will ever be solved. I am disappointed in the TPS and their initial premise that these deaths were murder/suicide when all evidence pointed to a double murder. I struggle to understand the logic of steadfastly claiming for nearly 6 weeks the alternative. It puts a target on them, IMO, for all the wrong reasons.

Would you handcuff them to maybe make it easier to pull the bodies to the swimming pool? Just a thought.

 

[dotr]

AUDIO.
June 17 2022

Kevin Donovan with Jerry Agar

Homicide detectives arriving at the Barry and Honey Sherman crime scene initially ruled the couple’s deaths was a murder-suicide. But photos show a very different story. How did police and a pathologist get it so wrong? Kevin Donovan, the Star’s chief investigative reporter, has the story for...

www.iheartradio.ca

''Homicide detectives arriving at the Barry and Honey Sherman crime scene initially ruled the couple’s deaths was a murder-suicide. But photos show a very different story. How did police and a pathologist get it so wrong? Kevin Donovan, the Star’s chief investigative reporter, has the story for Moore In The Morning.''

 

[branmuffin]

Would you handcuff them to maybe make it easier to pull the bodies to the swimming pool? Just a thought.

Possibly, but dragging two individuals using zip ties would have caused significant abrasions on the wrists that would have been more noticable to Pickup during the first autopsy. I think they were handcuffed to control them during the time they were alive. I believe they were removed to reduce any possible DNA from the killers, not to suggest a murder/suicide scenario.

 

[dotr]

Regarding cold cases...fwiw.
June 16 2022

The Agenda with Steve Paikin

''Criminologist and Western University professor Michael Arntfield discusses his book “How to Solve a Cold Case: And Everything Else You Wanted to Know About Catching Killers.”

 

[Lexiintoronto]

There are details missing from the drawing like bs glasses, facial features etc. Maybe KD will comment on the coats in a future article


i believe the family was asked whether Hs was in the habit of taking her “street shoes“ off when she arrived home. The article says she had slip on shoeson when her body was found. She could have been wearing them when she arrived home, or else put them on once in the house.

Here’s the quote:
“Police also interviewed daughter Alexandra (Alex) Sherman and her husband Brad Krawczyk. (The couple have since separated). In her interview, Alex is asked about shoes and she says her mother wore a pair of “black slip-on shoes” in the house and outside the home.”

People had reason to ‘hurt’ Barry and Honey Sherman, son tells Toronto police in early days of the investigation

Statement is part of a series of police interviews released by Ontario Court of Justice as part of the Star’s ongoing attempt to bring scrutiny to the now three-year-old murder probe.

www.thestar.com

KD wrote yesterday that the children were unaware about what footwear the Shermans wore in the home. AK was the only one who knew.

 

[newclues]

By the order of their lying positions, would it not mean that BS body was brought into the pool area first before HS body since they would have to have been dragged there from only one direction? Would this also mean that HS was not killed and brought into the pool area before BS was killed and brought into the pool area?

 

[ldlager]

Kevin Donovan on radio this morning

Kevin Donovan with Jerry Agar

Homicide detectives arriving at the Barry and Honey Sherman crime scene initially ruled the couple’s deaths was a murder-suicide. But photos show a very different story. How did police and a pathologist get it so wrong? Kevin Donovan, the Star’s chief investigative reporter, has the story for...

www.iheartradio.ca

 

[ldlager]

By the order of their lying positions, would it not mean that BS body was brought into the pool area first before HS body since they would have to have been dragged there from only one direction? Would this also mean that HS was not killed and brought into the pool area before BS was killed and brought into the pool area?

They both could have been dead and BS was just positioned first. I agree that given the position of the bodies, it is likely that BS was positioned first. But I don't think it says anything about the order of death, if the were already both dead.

 

[helix527]

Hey all, first time poster. I've been quite interested in the case. I read Kevin Donovan's The Billionaire Murders and try to keep up to tabs on new developments.

Frank D'Angelo's involvement is something I go back and forth on. On the one hand, Sherman was his golden goose, and wouldn't want to lose his steady flow of revenue. On the other hand, Sherman's tap may have been running out, and Sherman's son Jonathan demanded Barry stop funding Frank's enterprises. Maybe Barry knew something shady about Frank's many business dealings and was about to go to the police? An alternative theory is that Frank did not want Barry killed, but Frank got Barry involved in a deal with shady people, and it went awry.

There is obviously a lot of speculation that the conspirator(s) hired an international hitman. One thing to consider is that the conspirator(s) may have tried to evade suspicion by having the hitman fly into an airport outside of Toronto-Pearson. For instance, flying the hitman into the Montreal-Trudeau airport and making the 4-5 hour drive to Toronto, completing the job, and then heading back to Montreal to fly back to their home country.