CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

[Bobbi Pearl]

We don’t know the answers, how could we because LE hasn’t told us, but that doesn’t mean they don’t know. And what I meant was the culprit was ultimately unsuccessful in any staging because the deaths were deemed a double homicide. Just because of an anonymous TPS non-official leak early on doesn’t prove they were ever fooled - it may’ve been done intentionally as a fishing expedition looking out for possible suspects eager to further the m/s theory.

LE knows way more than we do, agreed. In the end, IMO I believe the murderer wanted people to know they were killed, the way they were displayed was not indicative of anything but homicide and if they used twist ties to strangle them, this is less personal than using your hands or a rope that you need to muscle and hold tight. IMO the two sitting like two peas in a pod. Still comes off as a personal killing, someone who was angry with both of them.

I believe the first media questions were asked to regular traffic beat police and maybe the firemen who were first to the scene, not LE detectives, who arrived later in the day and did not say anything to the press.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

We don’t know the answers, how could we because LE hasn’t told us, but that doesn’t mean they don’t know. And what I meant was the culprit was ultimately unsuccessful in any staging because the deaths were deemed a double homicide. Just because of an anonymous TPS non-official leak early on doesn’t prove they were ever fooled - it may’ve been done intentionally as a fishing expedition looking out for possible suspects eager to further the m/s theory.

LE knows way more than we do, agreed. In the end, IMO I believe the murderer wanted people to know they were killed, the way they were displayed was not indicative of anything but homicide and if they used twist ties to strangle them, this is less personal than using your hands or a rope that you need to muscle and hold tight. IMO the two sitting like two peas in a pod. Still comes off as a personal killing, someone who was angry with both of them.

I believe the first media questions were asked to regular traffic beat police and maybe the firemen who were first to the scene, not LE detectives, who arrived later in the day and did not say anything to the press.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Fact Sheet family homicides, BS and HS really did not fit the criteria for M/S, the age group, and in most spousal murders it was stabbing or gunshot

Fact sheet: Family homicides

some snips from the above link
Family homicides against older persons
Data from the Homicide survey indicate that the rate of homicide is lower among older adults compared to those under 65 years of age.

this is an interesting little tidbit.

Homicides committed by family members against older adults (65 years and older) are primarily motivated out of frustration, anger or despair (34%) followed by an argument (29%). In comparison, the most common apparent motive behind homicides committed by non-family members against senior is financial gain (34%) (Table 4.6).

 

[juli99]

Fact Sheet family homicides, BS and HS really did not fit the criteria for M/S, the age group, and in most spousal murders it was stabbing or gunshot

Fact sheet: Family homicides

some snips from the above link
Family homicides against older persons
Data from the Homicide survey indicate that the rate of homicide is lower among older adults compared to those under 65 years of age.

this is an interesting little tidbit.

Homicides committed by family members against older adults (65 years and older) are primarily motivated out of frustration, anger or despair (34%) followed by an argument (29%). In comparison, the most common apparent motive behind homicides committed by non-family members against senior is financial gain (34%) (Table 4.6).

Very interesting. I wonder if they took financial status into account and how billionaire status would play into this.

 

[deugirtni]

I wonder if the bodies being positioned the way they were, could have tried to mimic children getting a 'timeout'.. being told to sit in the hall, or in the corner, or turn their desk around, to be excluded from activities because of their behaviour, so they can no longer participate, can no longer even watch others participate.

Both of them facing the wall like that, just seems bizarre.. if the killer had wanted it to be super revolting and have a lot more shock value for the person discovering the bodies, they could've turned the bodies around so they were instead dangling in the water, instead of 'sitting' there, with backs turned. imo.

 

[MistyWaters]

I wonder if the bodies being positioned the way they were, could have tried to mimic children getting a 'timeout'.. being told to sit in the hall, or in the corner, or turn their desk around, to be excluded from activities because of their behaviour, so they can no longer participate, can no longer even watch others participate.

Both of them facing the wall like that, just seems bizarre.. if the killer had wanted it to be super revolting and have a lot more shock value for the person discovering the bodies, they could've turned the bodies around so they were instead dangling in the water, instead of 'sitting' there, with backs turned. imo.

It doesn’t seem possible to place sitting bodies in a position facing the pool, given how close the railing is to the edge. A classic suicide pose, staged or not, is for the body to lean slightly forward from whatever structure they’re secured to so that the throat is constricted. JMO



An ‘urban explorer’ entered Barry and Honey Sherman’s home before demolition and saw papers that ‘looked like evidence’

 

[newclues]

I wonder if the bodies being positioned the way they were, could have tried to mimic children getting a 'timeout'.. being told to sit in the hall, or in the corner, or turn their desk around, to be excluded from activities because of their behaviour, so they can no longer participate, can no longer even watch others participate.

Both of them facing the wall like that, just seems bizarre.. if the killer had wanted it to be super revolting and have a lot more shock value for the person discovering the bodies, they could've turned the bodies around so they were instead dangling in the water, instead of 'sitting' there, with backs turned. imo.

Looks like the killer was having their final word or last control over them by doing this to them.

 

[juli99]

Just listening to this video. KW says (starts around 2:30)

"I believe Barry killed her, freaked out, and said my god, what to do I do now? Well I know, we'll hold hands, we'll put ropes around our neck or belts, and we'll go by the swimming pool. And it will look like we did it together. So there's no doubt in my mind, that he killed her."

"As for why he's speaking now, Winter says he's hoping to clear his name as an obvious suspect given his strained relationship with the family."

So, his story from early 2018 is consistent with what he is saying now.

Two things stand out to me - first, they were not holding hands to my knowledge. I'm not sure the exact position of their hands, does anyone know? I think they were behind their backs because of the position of their jackets?

Second - if KW wanted to clear his name, why not take the lie detector test for the question of whether he killed them?

 

[MistyWaters]

Just listening to this video. KW says (starts around 2:30)

"I believe Barry killed her, freaked out, and said my god, what to do I do now? Well I know, we'll hold hands, we'll put ropes around our neck or belts, and we'll go by the swimming pool. And it will look like we did it together. So there's no doubt in my mind, that he killed her."

"As for why he's speaking now, Winter says he's hoping to clear his name as an obvious suspect given his strained relationship with the family."

So, his story from early 2018 is consistent with what he is saying now.

Two things stand out to me - first, they were not holding hands to my knowledge. I'm not sure the exact position of their hands, does anyone know? I think they were behind their backs because of the position of their jackets?

Second - if KW wanted to clear his name, why not take the lie detector test for the question of whether he killed them?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-cousin-1.4514176

“On the advice of his lawyer, Winter also declined to take a lie detector test on the question of whether he killed the Shermans.

Winter admits he could be seen as a suspect in the Sherman killings.

"I probably had reasons to lash out to do the dirty deed," he told The Fifth Estate's Bob McKeown. "I had nothing to do with it. I don't know who did it."

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I wonder if the bodies being positioned the way they were, could have tried to mimic children getting a 'timeout'.. being told to sit in the hall, or in the corner, or turn their desk around, to be excluded from activities because of their behaviour, so they can no longer participate, can no longer even watch others participate.

Both of them facing the wall like that, just seems bizarre.. if the killer had wanted it to be super revolting and have a lot more shock value for the person discovering the bodies, they could've turned the bodies around so they were instead dangling in the water, instead of 'sitting' there, with backs turned. imo.

GREAT description, so easy to picture what you describe, I was nodding my head as I read your description. That is a seriously good summation of the staging as we know it. Who wanted to "school" them?

I also have wondered if the murderer did know them and they are the religious one who to save his sole placed them facing "their homeland" and or had some embarrassment or regret and placed them as far from normal traffic as possible. Or the pool room an area of the home with no chance of any outside views and the winter clothing was an attempt to confuse the time of death. Last thought I have also wondered, did the perp tie them up and leave the room, go through the home and return to find they attempted to get out of the ties and succumbed in the attempt, the perp found them?

 

[WINDSOR]

Fact Sheet family homicides, BS and HS really did not fit the criteria for M/S, the age group, and in most spousal murders it was stabbing or gunshot

Fact sheet: Family homicides

some snips from the above link
Family homicides against older persons
Data from the Homicide survey indicate that the rate of homicide is lower among older adults compared to those under 65 years of age.

this is an interesting little tidbit.

Homicides committed by family members against older adults (65 years and older) are primarily motivated out of frustration, anger or despair (34%) followed by an argument (29%). In comparison, the most common apparent motive behind homicides committed by non-family members against senior is financial gain (34%) (Table 4.6).

This is an area where statistical analysis can be less than valid. Two factors that are not considered, which could be extremely relevant. First, the wealth of the senior. Billionaires make up a miniscule part of the Canadian population so likely the sample of their homicides rates may be too small to be statistically valid.
Secondly the motivations of 'frustration, anger or despair' may be related to the distribution of funds.
Third, I believe the reference of homicide for financial gain, refers to the primary intention of the murderer was robbery or theft.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Just listening to this video. KW says (starts around 2:30)

"I believe Barry killed her, freaked out, and said my god, what to do I do now? Well I know, we'll hold hands, we'll put ropes around our neck or belts, and we'll go by the swimming pool. And it will look like we did it together. So there's no doubt in my mind, that he killed her."

"As for why he's speaking now, Winter says he's hoping to clear his name as an obvious suspect given his strained relationship with the family."

So, his story from early 2018 is consistent with what he is saying now.

Two things stand out to me - first, they were not holding hands to my knowledge. I'm not sure the exact position of their hands, does anyone know? I think they were behind their backs because of the position of their jackets?

Second - if KW wanted to clear his name, why not take the lie detector test for the question of whether he killed them?

KW said he meant it metaphorically:


Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

Calling this a m/s is done in an effort to ‘clear his name’?

 

[newclues]

Who found the Sherman's bodies first and is this significant?

 

[dotr]

Who found the Sherman's bodies first and is this significant?

Agent who found Shermans dead thought bodies were Halloween prank | Toronto Sun
''The Toronto real estate agent who found the bodies of billionaire drug czar Barry Sherman and his wife Honey thought the scene was a Halloween hangover.''

''According to the agent, his wealthy clients were less than pleased by the macabre sight that greeted them on Old Colony Rd.

“They were angry,” the agent said, adding the couple were superstitious and feared the sick scene was a sinister omen.''

“My clients weren’t really interested in the pool,” the agent said, adding they had a peak anyway. “We could see through the large glass door. [The bodies] were on the steps leading to the pool.”

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Agent who found Shermans dead thought bodies were Halloween prank | Toronto Sun
''The Toronto real estate agent who found the bodies of billionaire drug czar Barry Sherman and his wife Honey thought the scene was a Halloween hangover.''

''According to the agent, his wealthy clients were less than pleased by the macabre sight that greeted them on Old Colony Rd.

“They were angry,” the agent said, adding the couple were superstitious and feared the sick scene was a sinister omen.''

“My clients weren’t really interested in the pool,” the agent said, adding they had a peak anyway. “We could see through the large glass door. [The bodies] were on the steps leading to the pool.”

RBBM
That last sentence has always confused me because KD has reported they were facing a wall, their feet almost touching it.

 

[juli99]

RBBM
That last sentence has always confused me because KD has reported they were facing a wall, their feet almost touching it.

Maybe from their vantage point it appeared that way, or they were just speaking generally about the location.

I'm curious, what is the purpose of the railing that borders the pool?

 

[juli99]

Is it true that BS did not normally park in the underground garage? I forget where I read that.

 

[dotr]

Must have missed this updated version..includes audio.

• MAY 28, 2020 UPDATED MAR 8, 2022
  • BY KEVIN DONOVAN
• An ‘urban explorer’ entered Barry and Honey Sherman’s home before demolition and saw papers that ‘looked like evidence’ | News | toronto.com
  
• ''The Urbex man went in mid-afternoon. He climbed over a wall on one side of the property. He did not think he would get inside the home, figuring all the doors would be locked. The Sherman home had a 10-car underground garage accessed by a ramp on the right side of the house. It is likely that Barry Sherman drove down that ramp on the night of Wednesday, Dec. 13, shortly before he was murdered.''

''It was dark in the Sherman garage. The urbex man pulled the door down behind him, and switched on his light. His pulse rate was up slightly, he noticed. While he had done this sort of thing many times, this was different, given what had happened.

There was nothing to see in the garage so he left through a door that opened onto a spiral staircase heading up to the first and second floor. It’s one of two staircases it is believed the attacker or attackers used to take Honey Sherman (who was likely surprised on the first floor by an assailant) down to the basement.

The pool where the bodies were found was just down the hallway, but “I wasn’t quite ready to experience that yet,” the man said in his Reddit post. He went upstairs.''

''During his visit a year later, the Urbex man told the Star he noticed “walls in the master bedroom with holes punched through,” leading him to conclude that “somebody was looking for something.” Drawers were upended, their contents strewn on the floor.

He saw a notepad with dates and times for real estate showings in December. ''

 

[ldlager]

We have a neighbor who walks with his upper body on a backward angle, very similar to this gait. It has been referred to by the locals as waddling, this person has a short torso and a protruding stomach, and some have vocalized it looks like a waddling duck, (their own children say this) flipping the leg out (at the knee in the NW case) when they see the gait. I like a penguin waddle too, it is like the body is rigid and not flexible, that is a good NW observation.

Maybe your neighbour is the NW?

 

[Window21]

Wow, I can't believe so many items were left behind in that house! Even artwork and photographs. I find that odd, no one bothered to do much of anything it seems. Maybe it was to painful for the kids to clean out the house?
But they could have easily paid someone to clean out everything.

I also wonder why were there holes punched in the bedroom walls? Could it be someone was taking out their anger and frustration? (after their deaths) For example: Someone was sitting there thinking about their childhood and how they were treated, OR were frustrated or angry the way the investigation was going so in a rage they punched holes in the walls?

It was also noted those creepy statues went down with the house.