Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

[MrsThreadgoode]

That is not a fact. It is your opinion only.BBM

The only thing in this forum that is NOT an opinion is the cause of death. Everything else is pure speculation (aside from the financial articles, etc.) But regarding the specifics of this horrendous tragedy, every other discussion is solely opinion.

MOO

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[otto]

But the police truly haven’t said anything yet. It has all been “sources” said, with the exception of the autopsy release. We do not have enough information to even speculate, IMO.


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That's not true.

"Although there have been some media reports about evidence, police have yet to confirm any specifics beyond cause of death. However, CBC News has learned that the Shermans were found by the pool in their basement and that investigators have found no security cameras inside or outside the home.
...

But [former Toronto homicide detective Dave] Perry said the fact that police are not looking for suspects suggests investigators believe whatever happened to the Shermans was isolated to the house, between the two of them, and no one else was involved.

He said that while investigators must keep their minds wide open, from what police have so far indicated, a double murder is one of the explanations that likely can be excluded.

"It's [a] very unusual, very unusual way to commit homicide," he said. "Where you have this wonderful couple, standing members of the community, are somehow both dead from a ligature compression of the neck. It's bizarre."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-honey-sherman-homicide-deaths-1.4456170

There are many other links where police sources are quoted.

 

[Snoop Sister]

What could possibly be in a sewer??? What would they be looking for?

The family wants a thorough investigation....

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

That's not true.

"Although there have been some media reports about evidence, police have yet to confirm any specifics beyond cause of death. However, CBC News has learned that the Shermans were found by the pool in their basement and that investigators have found no security cameras inside or outside the home.
...

But [former Toronto homicide detective Dave] Perry said the fact that police are not looking for suspects suggests investigators believe whatever happened to the Shermans was isolated to the house, between the two of them, and no one else was involved.

He said that while investigators must keep their minds wide open, from what police have so far indicated, a double murder is one of the explanations that likely can be excluded.

"It's [a] very unusual, very unusual way to commit homicide," he said. "Where you have this wonderful couple, standing members of the community, are somehow both dead from a ligature compression of the neck. It's bizarre."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-honey-sherman-homicide-deaths-1.4456170

There are many other links where police sources are quoted.

Once again, you are not quoting anything coming directly from the current investigating officers. You are quoting “sources” ... that is NOTHING OFFICIAL.


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[PaulR]

That's not true.

"Although there have been some media reports about evidence, police have yet to confirm any specifics beyond cause of death. However, CBC News has learned that the Shermans were found by the pool in their basement and that investigators have found no security cameras inside or outside the home.
...

But [former Toronto homicide detective Dave] Perry said the fact that police are not looking for suspects suggests investigators believe whatever happened to the Shermans was isolated to the house, between the two of them, and no one else was involved.

He said that while investigators must keep their minds wide open, from what police have so far indicated, a double murder is one of the explanations that likely can be excluded.

"It's [a] very unusual, very unusual way to commit homicide," he said. "Where you have this wonderful couple, standing members of the community, are somehow both dead from a ligature compression of the neck. It's bizarre."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-honey-sherman-homicide-deaths-1.4456170

There are many other links where police sources are quoted.

One reason the police would not be looking for suspects is if they already have suspects.

 

[Tortoise]

One reason the police would not be looking for suspects is if they already have suspects.

Or, when they apparently made that statement they hadn't yet completed their investigation.

 

[Canterbury Tales]

That is not a fact. It is your opinion only.BBM

Yes, it's very strongly my opinion. There is nothing in this case based on what we have been told, that makes me believe this is anything but a double murder staged to look otherwise. Nothing in this case fits with a double suicide or murder-suicide IMO. A 75 year old man killed his wife in a rage and then possibly dragged her body(not a small woman), put makeshift straitjackets on and was able to hang them both with the makeshift straitjackets on? It's ludicrous IMO.

IMO this was most probably a revenge killing and most probably those cousins were involved after losing that last lawsuit in September.

All of the steps the investigators are taking now, i.e. impounding Honey's car, the sewer sweep in front of the Sherman home, etc. point to the fact that their focus has shifted to thinking it was a double murder. Personally, I'll go with the expertise of former FBI agent Brad Garrett over most of the outlandish theories I've read in this thread.


I just hope that the perps made some mistakes so that justice can be served.

 

[JDG]

That's not true.

"Although there have been some media reports about evidence, police have yet to confirm any specifics beyond cause of death. However, CBC News has learned that the Shermans were found by the pool in their basement and that investigators have found no security cameras inside or outside the home.
...

But [former Toronto homicide detective Dave] Perry said the fact that police are not looking for suspects suggests investigators believe whatever happened to the Shermans was isolated to the house, between the two of them, and no one else was involved.

He said that while investigators must keep their minds wide open, from what police have so far indicated, a double murder is one of the explanations that likely can be excluded.

"It's [a] very unusual, very unusual way to commit homicide," he said. "Where you have this wonderful couple, standing members of the community, are somehow both dead from a ligature compression of the neck. It's bizarre."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-honey-sherman-homicide-deaths-1.4456170

There are many other links where police sources are quoted.

Otto,

Please read what you posted......Thats not true. 'Although there have been some media reports about evidence, police have yet to confirm any specifics BEYOND cause of death.'

All the rest is conjecture, NOT fact. Words such as 'likely and suggest' are not indicators of fact, just the opposite.

 

[Canterbury Tales]

I think the family and friends do not want to accept that this is a murder/suicide, and homicide police have been pressured to do a criminal investigation to rule out all possibilities that there was a break in, or that a weapon was tossed into the nearby sewer.

Family and friends don't want to accept the murder-suicide theory because it's ridiculous given what we do know and they know a lot more than we do. It wasn't a random break in! It was a planned hit IMO.

 

[otto]

Once again, you are not quoting anything coming directly from the current investigating officers. You are quoting “sources” ... that is NOTHING OFFICIAL.

I choose to believe what has been reported about their deaths, the strangulation, that they were next to the pool hanging by belts, that there are no signs of a break in, that police are not looking for suspects, that this is likely a murder - suicide, that the wife may have been killed first, and that he killed himself several hours later.

Murder suicide was reported by police, and it is only because family and friends are shocked that this is being looked at as anything different than what was clear to police who were on scene when the bodies were discovered.

"Officially, Toronto police have released little information about the deaths, beyond that they were deemed suspicious. But police sources confirm to the Star that police are now probing the possibility that they were a murder-suicide."

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...gating-death-of-billionaire-and-his-wife.html

 

[otto]

One reason the police would not be looking for suspects is if they already have suspects.

They are looking at this as a murder suicide, so they already have their suspect and he is deceased.

 

[Tortoise]

This just goes round in circles. Everyone keep your hair on and accept that we all believe what we want to.

 

[Sarahlou]

I'd be quite surprised now if this turns out to be anything other than murder/suicide.

 

[otto]

I posted this earlier today. I'm not sure what sort of sources anyone is looking for if the police sources quoted in the news are not good enough.

These are the facts that we have. Although family and friends do not want to accept a murder-suicide, everything police are saying leads to no other conclusion.

"Instead of looking forward to socializing with Ms. Sherman on what was to be the first day of her vacation, friends of the couple are reeling – stunned that the pair were found hanging from a railing partly surrounding their basement lap pool on Friday.

Late Sunday, Toronto police said the couple both died from "ligature neck compression."

The homicide squad is now in charge of the investigation, although police were still classifying the deaths as "suspicious," not a homicide, in their Sunday night statement.
...

There was no sign of forced entry to the home and no note left behind to explain what had happened, the police source said."​

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...om-news-of-the-couples-death/article37362416/

"A police source told the Star that the couple was found together, by their indoor pool, hanging off a nearby structure in a semi-sitting position."​

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...ut-the-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman.html

"Sources say investigators found the Shermans, side by side, in their windowless pool room, each with a men’s leather belt wrapped around their necks and tied to the pool railing. Both had on jackets that were pulled “behind their backs” and rolled down over their arms.​

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-mystery-shrouds-deaths-of-billionaire-couple

"Sources close to the case believe Honey may have been killed in a secondary location in the $6.9 million Old Colony Rd. house and then moved to the location where she was later found with her deceased husband.

“Forensics need to be done and post-mortems on the bodies, but at this stage it appears there was no forced entry and no evidence of anybody else in the house,” a police source said.​

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/much-loved-billionaire-couple-found-dead-in-north-york-mansion

"Although there have been some media reports about evidence, police have yet to confirm any specifics beyond cause of death. However, CBC News has learned that the Shermans were found by the pool in their basement and that investigators have found no security cameras inside or outside the home.
...

But Perry said the fact that police are not looking for suspects suggests investigators believe whatever happened to the Shermans was isolated to the house, between the two of them, and no one else was involved.

He said that while investigators must keep their minds wide open, from what police have so far indicated, a double murder is one of the explanations that likely can be excluded.

"It's [a] very unusual, very unusual way to commit homicide," he said. "Where you have this wonderful couple, standing members of the community, are somehow both dead from a ligature compression of the neck. It's bizarre."​

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-honey-sherman-homicide-deaths-1.4456170

 

[dotr]

Re post.
http://torontopolice.on.ca/newsreleases/39905

[h=1]Investigation into two suspicious deaths,
50 Old Colony Road,
Victims identified,
Causes of death release[/h] Broadcast time: 18:55
Sunday, December 17, 2017

Case #: 2017-3201016


At 11:44 a.m., on Friday, December 15, 2017, police responded to a 9-1-1 call to 50 Old Colony Road.

Police officers attended the address and located a man and a woman inside the house. Both were deceased.

The deceased man has been identified as Barry Sherman, 75. The deceased woman has been identified as Honey Sherman, 70.

Post-mortem examinations were carried out yesterday and today. The cause of death for both deceased was ligature neck compression.

Toronto Police Service Homicide has taken the lead in this suspicious death investigation.

 

[Canterbury Tales]

They are looking at this as a murder suicide, so they already have their suspect and he is deceased.

" But police sources confirm to the Star that police are now probing the possibility that they were a murder-suicide."

How does the above statement which is NOT a direct statement from the police themselves and states that police are probing the "possibility" of a murder-suicide indicate that the police are looking at this solely as a murder-suicide case? Obviously, they aren't based on actions like impounding Honey's car, doing a sewer sweep, etc. Also, it's the job of the investigators to obfuscate the truth from the public at this point.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I choose to believe what has been reported about their deaths, the strangulation, that they were next to the pool hanging by belts, that there are no signs of a break in, that police are not looking for suspects, that this is likely a murder - suicide, that the wife may have been killed first, and that he killed himself several hours later.

Murder suicide was reported by police, and it is only because family and friends are shocked that this is being looked at as anything different than what was clear to police who were on scene when the bodies were discovered.

"Officially, Toronto police have released little information about the deaths, beyond that they were deemed suspicious. But police sources confirm to the Star that police are now probing the possibility that they were a murder-suicide."

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...gating-death-of-billionaire-and-his-wife.html

Yes, you choose to believe what has been reported as coming from sources, nothing official.

The ONLY officially released information has been the autopsy results.

You state “murder suicide was reported by police” ... it was NOT. It was a “source” which may or may not be true, but it most definitely is nothing official ... nothing that can be declared as a fact.

Please link the official quote you are referring to.


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[Tortoise]

I was quite surprised at how spread out geographically the four adult children are.

But the focus of this service was on the Sherman family; four adult children who came home from scattered locations – Florida, Whistler, B.C., California and Israel

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...make-sense-of-the-irrational/article37416950/

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I posted this earlier today. I'm not sure what sort of sources anyone is looking for if the police sources quoted in the news are not good enough.

These are the facts that we have. Although family and friends do not want to accept a murder-suicide, everything police are saying leads to no other conclusion.

"Instead of looking forward to socializing with Ms. Sherman on what was to be the first day of her vacation, friends of the couple are reeling – stunned that the pair were found hanging from a railing partly surrounding their basement lap pool on Friday.

Late Sunday, Toronto police said the couple both died from "ligature neck compression."

The homicide squad is now in charge of the investigation, although police were still classifying the deaths as "suspicious," not a homicide, in their Sunday night statement.
...

There was no sign of forced entry to the home and no note left behind to explain what had happened, the police source said."​

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...om-news-of-the-couples-death/article37362416/

"A police source told the Star that the couple was found together, by their indoor pool, hanging off a nearby structure in a semi-sitting position."​

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...ut-the-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman.html

"Sources say investigators found the Shermans, side by side, in their windowless pool room, each with a men’s leather belt wrapped around their necks and tied to the pool railing. Both had on jackets that were pulled “behind their backs” and rolled down over their arms.​

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-mystery-shrouds-deaths-of-billionaire-couple

"Sources close to the case believe Honey may have been killed in a secondary location in the $6.9 million Old Colony Rd. house and then moved to the location where she was later found with her deceased husband.

“Forensics need to be done and post-mortems on the bodies, but at this stage it appears there was no forced entry and no evidence of anybody else in the house,” a police source said.​

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/much-loved-billionaire-couple-found-dead-in-north-york-mansion

"Although there have been some media reports about evidence, police have yet to confirm any specifics beyond cause of death. However, CBC News has learned that the Shermans were found by the pool in their basement and that investigators have found no security cameras inside or outside the home.
...

But Perry said the fact that police are not looking for suspects suggests investigators believe whatever happened to the Shermans was isolated to the house, between the two of them, and no one else was involved.

He said that while investigators must keep their minds wide open, from what police have so far indicated, a double murder is one of the explanations that likely can be excluded.

"It's [a] very unusual, very unusual way to commit homicide," he said. "Where you have this wonderful couple, standing members of the community, are somehow both dead from a ligature compression of the neck. It's bizarre."​

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-honey-sherman-homicide-deaths-1.4456170

Once again, “police sources” may or may not be true. That is NOT official. That is not fact. It is not information shared with the public as having come from official reports from the homicide team investigating their tragic deaths.


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[MrsThreadgoode]

I posted this earlier today. I'm not sure what sort of sources anyone is looking for if the police sources quoted in the news are not good enough.

These are the facts that we have. Although family and friends do not want to accept a murder-suicide, everything police are saying leads to no other conclusion.

"Instead of looking forward to socializing with Ms. Sherman on what was to be the first day of her vacation, friends of the couple are reeling – stunned that the pair were found hanging from a railing partly surrounding their basement lap pool on Friday.

Late Sunday, Toronto police said the couple both died from "ligature neck compression."

The homicide squad is now in charge of the investigation, although police were still classifying the deaths as "suspicious," not a homicide, in their Sunday night statement.
...

There was no sign of forced entry to the home and no note left behind to explain what had happened, the police source said."​

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...om-news-of-the-couples-death/article37362416/

"A police source told the Star that the couple was found together, by their indoor pool, hanging off a nearby structure in a semi-sitting position."​

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...ut-the-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman.html

"Sources say investigators found the Shermans, side by side, in their windowless pool room, each with a men’s leather belt wrapped around their necks and tied to the pool railing. Both had on jackets that were pulled “behind their backs” and rolled down over their arms.​

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-mystery-shrouds-deaths-of-billionaire-couple

"Sources close to the case believe Honey may have been killed in a secondary location in the $6.9 million Old Colony Rd. house and then moved to the location where she was later found with her deceased husband.

“Forensics need to be done and post-mortems on the bodies, but at this stage it appears there was no forced entry and no evidence of anybody else in the house,” a police source said.​

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/much-loved-billionaire-couple-found-dead-in-north-york-mansion

"Although there have been some media reports about evidence, police have yet to confirm any specifics beyond cause of death. However, CBC News has learned that the Shermans were found by the pool in their basement and that investigators have found no security cameras inside or outside the home.
...

But Perry said the fact that police are not looking for suspects suggests investigators believe whatever happened to the Shermans was isolated to the house, between the two of them, and no one else was involved.

He said that while investigators must keep their minds wide open, from what police have so far indicated, a double murder is one of the explanations that likely can be excluded.

"It's [a] very unusual, very unusual way to commit homicide," he said. "Where you have this wonderful couple, standing members of the community, are somehow both dead from a ligature compression of the neck. It's bizarre."​

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-honey-sherman-homicide-deaths-1.4456170

As dotr so kindly posted, this is the ONLY information that has been officially released by the police:

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