Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

[otto]

How does the above statement which is NOT a direct statement from the police themselves and states that police are probing the "possibility" of a murder-suicide indicate that the police are looking at this solely as a murder-suicide case? Obviously, they aren't based on actions like impounding Honey's car, doing a sewer sweep, etc. Also, it's the job of the investigators to obfuscate the truth to the public at this point.

Clearly we have a different understanding of "police sources". I interpret this to be a statement made by police officers involved in the discovery of the bodies and valid information.

I also know that the family doesn't like the conclusion of the police and have demanded that the deaths be investigated as murders. Since that time, the homicide team is doing what they do at a real murder scene. That doesn't mean that because police are doing what the family demanded, the couple were murdered.

 

[otto]

As dotr so kindly posted, this is the ONLY information that has been officially released by the police:

We have official police statements made in front of a camera, we have police sources, we have online police information, and perhaps other sources of information.

We know that "suspicious" does not mean "homicide" from reviewing all of the information that has been made available.

 

[Tillicum]

Clearly we have a different understanding of "police sources". I interpret this to be a statement made by police officers involved in the discovery of the bodies and valid information.

I also know that the family doesn't like the conclusion of the police and have demanded that the deaths be investigated as murders. Since that time, the homicide team is doing what they do at a real murder scene. That doesn't mean that because police are doing what the family demanded, the couple were murdered.

I tend to agree. While it's possible they've found something that led to removing her car, checking out the roof and the sewer sweep tomorrow, I think they are methodically ruling out possibilities one at a time. I still think it's possible they were murdered by I think it's more probable they're looking at a murder suicide.

 

[liz b.]

Just want to be clear : Honey died by ligature strangulation in another part of the house. She was strangled with the belt, I wonder ? Then she was moved to the pool area after death ? And hung there ? And so Barry then replicated the exact mode of death on himself ?

 

[otto]

Once again, “police sources” may or may not be true. That is NOT official. That is not fact. It is not information shared with the public as having come from official reports from the homicide team investigating their tragic deaths.

Do we know that the wife's car was towed, that police were looking on the roof of the house, or that the sewer is being searched? If yes, then we are accepting more information than what was in the initial written police statement. We can't selectively choose what news reports to believe. If we reject all information published in the news, then we also have to reject that the wife's car was towed, regardless of whether we saw it with our own eyes in a news report.

 

[Jennifer17]

Do we know that the wife's car was towed, that police were looking on the roof of the house, or that the sewer is being searched? If yes, then we are accepting more information than what was in the initial written police statement. We can't selectively choose what news reports to believe. If we reject all information published in the news, then we also have to reject that the wife's car was towed, regardless of whether we saw it with our own eyes in a news report.

And that their arms were constricted by jackets and that leather belts were used.

 

[jillycat]

The police got themselves in a bind by blabbering at the front end of this that it was murder-suicide. Unless that's another case of 'sources said'.

 

[otto]

And that their arms were constricted by jackets and that leather belts were used.

I think it has to be all or nothing when it comes to accepting or doubting news reports about these deaths. We can't claim that we know nothing about the deaths, even though police sources are referenced, and then accept media reports that police are looking in nearby sewers.

 

[GeeButtersnaps]

Just want to be clear : Honey died by ligature strangulation in another part of the house. She was strangled with the belt, I wonder ? Then she was moved to the pool area after death ? And hung there ? And so Barry then replicated the exact mode of death on himself ?

Yeah if all that information is true and the part about the jackets then to me how does a murder suicide make any logical sense? That would be the most illogical to me..so what if there wasn’t forced entry that could be easily explained especially compared to the other “facts”..just doesn’t make sense to me


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[CoolJ]

We have official police statements made in front of a camera, we have police sources, we have online police information, and perhaps other sources of information.

We know that "suspicious" does not mean "homicide" from reviewing all of the information that has been made available.

What does “ligature neck compression” mean to you?

 

[Ashley96]

Information posted in the media isn't the same as information posted by random people... They have a reputation to uphold (to varying degrees)... and that information has never been denied by police or family.

Could they be false reports? Could it be a staged double murder? Of course! Anything is possible. But according to reports we do have now that haven't been disputed, muder/suicide seems to be the more probable explanation. MOO

But either way, it's horrific.

 

[CoolJ]

And that their arms were constricted by jackets and that leather belts were used.

So, how does one hang himself if his arms are constricted?

 

[Jennifer17]

So, how does one hang himself if his arms are constricted?

You don't need to use your arms once the hanging device is in place.

 

[CoolJ]

You don't need to use your arms once the hanging device is in place.

Please explain how that would work. Step by step.

 

[otto]

So, how does one hang himself if his arms are constricted?

Suicide by belt has been done before:

"Within a few weeks, Fiore would be dead—savagely beaten, strangled, her fingers severed, her teeth removed—and Jenkins hanging from his neck by a belt in a British Columbia town called Hope."

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/millionaire-murder/

I'm still wondering whether the wife's jacket was rolled down because she was dragged by the belt to the pool. Was his jacket also rolled down? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[otto]

Please explain how that would work. Step by step.

Loop the belt around the railing. Shove the shoulders of the jacket down, put your head in the belt, and put all your weight on the belt to cause ligature neck compression. Be found by police in a half sitting position, dead by ligature neck compression.

 

[Jennifer17]

Please explain how that would work. Step by step.

I actually don't know the mechanics of it, but people manage to hang themselves by fashioning a noose, putting it over the head and kicking a chair out from under them, and they haven't used their arms after they put the hanging device on. I imagine that if you constricted your arms to stop the instinctual self preservation, you could do it by throwing your body forward.MOO

 

[Grace.212]

Shove the shoulders of the jacket down,

So u use the jacket as almost a straitjacket to restrict your arms from loosening the belt at the last minute? Then why was Honey arms also constricted by a jacket if she was killed in another location. The Jackets is what is the most confusing for me. Hope I am making sense.

 

[JayFriend]

One reason the police would not be looking for suspects is if they already have suspects.

That's exactly my thought.

 

[CoolJ]

Loop the belt around the railing. Shove the shoulders of the jacket down, put your head in the belt, and put all your weight on the belt to cause ligature neck compression. Be found by police in a half sitting position, dead by ligature neck compression.

So would he be hanging from the belt or leaning into it. I can’t picture how you would hang from a belt. You would need a loop (like a noose). Having a hard time picturing it. Have they described it specifically?