Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

[Inthedetails]

BBM

Yup. We honestly don’t know enough to have strong opinions, and I’m kind of surprised that the debate is so intense. Although I can explain how murder-suicide could have happened to those who think it’s impossible, I keep my mind open to the possibility of a double murder, just as LE is doing.

There’s plenty of room on the fence, folks. I suspect that we may need to spike the cocoa with something stronger before this is over!

The debate has surprised me too. Not the usual WS "let's figure this out as we go along" attitude I'm used to seeing on cases.

There is no prize for having the right hunch earlier than others, no punishment if your theory isn't correct, no penalty for changing your mind. Let's puzzle this together to find the truth.

I have a couple of theories I'm keeping as possibilities, with one I think it most likely...but my opinion is subject to change as we learn more details. We don't know everything yet. :dunno:

My 2¢. Jmo

 

[liz b.]

FWIW, houses and property that my parents owned were in my mom's name. My mom and dad were married for 50+ years. I think it's a financial decision, not a reflection on the marriage.

jmo

You could be right. Whose name was their current home in ?

 

[Inthedetails]

Yes, but even at that it calls for a pause in the flow of events. A chance for reconsideration. jmo

Okay, let's say he murdered Honey and then had some time to think about it. He's a pragmatic man - he realized he would be the suspect and, in fact, was guilty. He didn't want to spend his remaining years in jail. The practical decision, in his mind perhaps, was to commit suicide. The end was the end.

I'm not sure that's what happened as part of me suspects this was planned rather than spontaneous, but it's an idea to think about.

jmo

 

[Tighthead]

You could be right. Whose name was their current home in ?

What they did 30 years ago isn’t likely relevant to what they didn’t this time. There are a multitude of reasons they may have done this.

 

[Inthedetails]

What they did 30 years ago isn’t likely relevant to what they didn’t this time. There are a multitude of reasons they may have done this.

It's a legit question and doesn't need to be dismissed. The info adds to what we know.

Anyone know the answer?

jmo

 

[tarabull]

FWIW

Toronto billionaires found dead by hanging in their mansion were under investigation: Report
December 24, 2017

http://www.crimeonline.com/2017/12/...heir-mansion-were-under-investigation-report/

ETA: Snipped from the NY Post article referenced in article above...

...And days before he died, the Shermans’ attorneys filed documents in Canadian federal court in an attempt to quash a government investigation into a possible violation of lobbying rules in connection with a $1,100-a-plate fundraising dinner the Shermans held at their home for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in 2015.

https://nypost.com/2017/12/23/billionaire-couple-faced-financial-woes-before-suspicious-deaths/

:thinking:

ETA2:

Justin Trudeau fundraiser picketed by Jewish group over Liberals' support for Iran nuclear deal
August 26, 2015

Snipped...

...About 30 protesters from the Jewish Defence League lined the street out front of Sherman’s lavish north Toronto home, holding Israeli and Canadian flags.

http://nationalpost.com/news/politi...p-over-liberals-support-for-iran-nuclear-deal

 

[Montrealaise]

It's a legit question and doesn't need to be dismissed. The info adds to what we know.

Anyone know the answer?

jmo

Many businessmen put the family home in their wife's name so that, if they or the business are sued or run into financial problems, that asset at least will be protected. This would be especially applicable to Barry, since he was more litigious than most, so having the house in Honey's name is to be expected.

 

[liz b.]

The debate has surprised me too. Not the usual WS "let's figure this out as we go along" attitude I'm used to seeing on cases.

There is no prize for having the right hunch earlier than others, no punishment if your theory isn't correct, no penalty for changing your mind. Let's puzzle this together to find the truth.

I have a couple of theories I'm keeping as possibilities, with one I think it most likely...but my opinion is subject to change as we learn more details. We don't know everything yet. :dunno:

My 2¢. Jmo

Other than a couple of child missing persons cases, I have observed that different camps of opinion form.Then solidify. Often with condescending posts. I think the crimes themselves are what drive this, so horrendous are they , it can be easy to forget that WS is essentially a crime message board. If it seems that I've done this with this case, my apologies. all jmo

 

[MFH]

FWIW

Toronto billionaires found dead by hanging in their mansion were under investigation: Report
December 24, 2017

http://www.crimeonline.com/2017/12/...heir-mansion-were-under-investigation-report/

ETA: Snipped from the NY Post article referenced in article above...


https://nypost.com/2017/12/23/billionaire-couple-faced-financial-woes-before-suspicious-deaths/

:thinking:

ETA2:

Justin Trudeau fundraiser picketed by Jewish group over Liberals' support for Iran nuclear deal
August 26, 2015

Snipped...


http://nationalpost.com/news/politi...p-over-liberals-support-for-iran-nuclear-deal

I think this ^, and many other things may show just how many people could be familiar with the Sherman’s home and their routines. Honey seems like the type who may have hosted lots of things at their house.

IMO

 

[Inthedetails]

This quote was posted upthread, but I can't find the post to quote it, so I'm re-posting it, bolded by me.

“The concept of letting go was not in his DNA,” longtime friend and former Apotex CEO Jack Kay said. “He was tenacious when he felt he was right.” http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/the-life-and-tumultuous-times-of-barry-and-honey-sherman

So, he would fight "when he felt he was right."

What about when he was wrong? What did he do then?

If he killed his wife, he knew that was wrong. I think it's entirely possible he killed Honey (whether accidentally or planned) and he knew that was not right. He would not win that battle in court. So he killed himself.

There are other possibilities as to what happened - I am well aware of that. But....this is one possibility.

jmopinion at the moment

 

[Inthedetails]

Other than a couple of child missing persons cases, I have observed that different camps of opinion form.Then solidify. Often with condescending posts. I think the crimes themselves are what drive this, so horrendous are they , it can be easy to forget that WS is essentially a crime message board. If it seems that I've done this with this case, my apologies. all jmo

Hang in there, liz b! We need you and your contributions.The condescending posts get to me too, but there is still a group wanting to sleuth and talk it out together nicely (even when we have differing opinions). This case is a biggie - it will have its ups and downs.

 

[dotr]

Again apologies for not being able to keep up with every post.. just wondered if anyone had noticed this before.. from an article written in the beginning (Dec19). He's calling it 'what we know'. So if the couple visited the architect on Wed evening, but they died on Thursday (doesn't say what time though, could've been in the wee hours just after midnight on Wednesday..), then it suggests they were not ambushed when they returned to their home on Wed eve? We know B did not show up at work on Thursday, so were they already dead? Why did they still have their coats/boots on if they died on Thursday?

What we know:

• – The Shermans died Thursday inside their 12,440 square-foot Old Colony Rd. mansion which was up for sale for $6.9 million.

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-mystery-shrouds-deaths-of-billionaire-couple

rbbm.
Assuming that the couple was murdered and assuming that the rumour about boots and jackets turns out to be fact, wondering if boots and jackets were put on to make it look as if the Shermans had just returned home as opposed to killers already in the home.
speculation, imo.

 

[kiwi50]

I’m trying to recall Barry Sherman’s good points. Maybe we aren’t meant to speak ill of the dead, but I think he comes across as a bully and totally arrogant.
He corrects peoples grammar, is rude to visitors in his home, sues anyone he feels like, whether he is right or wrong. I wonder how many people actually liked him. I can’t imagine women liking him or enjoying his company.

I’d love someone to list his good points, apart from his philanthropy.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Hang in there, liz b! We need you and your contributions.The condescending posts get to me too, but there is still a group wanting to sleuth and talk it out together nicely (even when we have differing opinions). This case is a biggie - it will have its ups and downs.

The thing is that information from the beginning of the original thread is brought up over and over again. Someone posts something and then later someone else reposts again and again. I guess it is because there isn’t much new information to go on. No one really knows what happened in the Sherman Home except possibly the TPS. No one knows what the Sherman’s marital relationship behind close doors was really like save for possibly her sister, which I mentioned way back. If there was marital discord, she would probably know.

I hope there will be new info soon but for TPS to do a thorough job, it could take a few weeks or even more. I don’t think anyone on this site personally knows the Shermans but in some of the posts, it is like they are personal friends. I think there is a lot of grasping at straws. I even read someone said who the beneficiaries of their life insurance policies would be...ie. to each other. How in the world could someone make that assumption.

Anyway, not being mean or anything just giving my point of view. I know, we have very little concrete and TPS verified info to go on. That being said, I am glad the Sherman children are making sure a thorough investigation is being conducted. As I have said earlier, I would have wondered about them if they hadn’t done so.

 

[Inthedetails]

I’m trying to recall Barry Sherman’s good points. Maybe we aren’t meant to speak ill of the dead, but I think he comes across as a bully and totally arrogant.
He corrects peoples grammar, is rude to visitors in his home, sues anyone he feels like, whether he is right or wrong. I wonder how many people actually liked him. I can’t imagine women liking him or enjoying his company.

I’d love someone to list his good points, apart from his philanthropy.

I don't know him personally (and haven't really even delved into this), but he was known to be a hard worker. In my eyes, that is a good point.

I know you are looking for things other than philanthropy, but giving away money is a hugely good point. Not all rich people do that.

jmo

 

[Tighthead]

It's a legit question and doesn't need to be dismissed. The info adds to what we know.

Anyone know the answer?

jmo

There are so many variables that it would be pointless to extrapolate. It’s not dismissing your question, don’t take it personally.

Tax planning, estate planning, convenience.

Are you dismissing the possibility that their circumstances now are different now than they were 30 year school ago?

Why do you think it may be significant?

What specifically would we gain by knowing it?

 

[Tighthead]

Many businessmen put the family home in their wife's name so that, if they or the business are sued or run into financial problems, that asset at least will be protected. This would be especially applicable to Barry, since he was more litigious than most, so having the house in Honey's name is to be expected.

Also if you own multiple properties and each take one on title, you may be able to get tax advantages on the primary residence capital gains exemption.

 

[Inthedetails]

There are so many variables that it would be pointless to extrapolate.

Tax planning, estate planning, convenience.

Are you dismissing the possibility that their circumstances now are different now than they were 30 year school ago?

Why do you think it may be significant?

What specifically would we gain by knowing it?

If there is a change from how they once set things up to the way they are doing things now, that could mean something. Or not. I don't know what the detail will mean, but that is often true on the many cases I have followed here. Sometimes something that seems minor will turn out to be key. We don't know much, so might as well explore what can be explored.

And, yes, it's entirely possible it would mean nothing. You're right.

jmo

 

[WhitePine]

Hi all. My first post ever on WS. I've read up somwhat on this and don't know much about these poor folks but I still just don't buy anyone staging a death in this manner. As its been stated-who wouldwant their kids to find thier mother like that? I'm pretty sure it was a double murder by pros. So sad for the family.!

 

[liz b.]

Hang in there, liz b! We need you and your contributions.The condescending posts get to me too, but there is still a group wanting to sleuth and talk it out together nicely (even when we have differing opinions). This case is a biggie - it will have its ups and downs.

And,as always, the ignore function is our friend