Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

[Doghairrules]

I often think of Robin Williams and how shocked I was when I heard he committed suicide. You just never know...

But we did know that he had struggled with bipolar and had past substance abuse problems. I was still shocked at the time, but we haven’t heard anything like that about this couple.

 

[Montrealaise]

That's usually not what we mean by "driving a car into the ground" - when it spends more time in the shop and starts having high repair costs, it's not very frugal unless you repair your own cars. But when you do the recommended maintenance on a regular basis, which helps keep things from breaking in the first place, you can keep an old car very frugally, and remotely modern cars can be reliable for a long time if you take care of them. I have an economy car that will be turning 15 soon.

I have a 1998 Corolla which I maintain and drive carefully, and it runs like a charm - over the years, it has only required occasional minor repairs. The day it starts needing more repairs, l'll get another car. It isn't that I'm frugal - I spend money on vacations, clothes, and other things that matter to me. I'm just not into cars - if it gets me from point A to point B, that's good enough for me, and I'm not interested in impressing people by driving a Mercedes or Audi or BMW. Maybe Barry felt the same way.

 

[musicaljoke]

If their personal net worth is $4 billion, what sort of life insurance would be required? It’s basically pointless.

As for suicide clauses the old standard was that they were voided after two years, and I think it has since been relaxed.

It is is possible that Apotex had a key man policy on Barry Sherman, but I can’t see that being a big concern especially as it is unlikely a suicide would affect coverage.

When you have a ton of money, there is a good tax reason why you put lots of money into life insurance. The policy portion might cost a few thousands a year, but if you are wealthy, you can invest many thousands of dollars a year, beyond the policy costs, in order to pass money to your beneficiaries. The payout to your beneficiaries is taxed differently, if at all, doesn't go through probate, which saves the beneficiaries a lot of money.

If there is a tax specialist, or a rich person on board, I'm sure he or she can explain it better.

 

[Jealoushe]

Not sure if anyone posted this yet, but it shows Honey with her dance teacher in 2010.

Also shows the positioning of the staircases.

https://youtu.be/q-WYZ6WOhBA

Heartbreaking, to see how happy and carefree she was.

As for cars, that is a classic sign of wealthy people. I know so many people who are well off business owners (I work with business owners) and majority drive old cheap cars unless they need a new one for their job. Cars are a terrible investment, everyone knows that.

 

[NaanOfYourBusiness]

New here. So go easy on me for my simplistic theory.

If I understand correctly, there was underground parking?

Honey could have been carjacked outside somewhere, and forced to drive back to her house.

Driving her own car back home into garage/parking would not arouse suspicions.

Perp hides/ducks down in car as they drive in. Honey has electronic means to access garage/doors/pass security and is forced to use it.

Honey could have even been forced to shut her own security system off REMOTELY before they even neared the property.

From underground parking we are possibly near/at level of the (windowless?) pool. From there Honey is either presented as hostage to husband and/or killed and dragged to pool.

Either way, the perp is now in control, and the ugly hanging deed gets done.

Only issue is perp leaving the scene. Well, if security system is already shut off, then perimeters / house security is blown.

Perp awaits/exits in cover of darkness.

Discuss. . .

In this scenario, the perpetrator was patient and well-organized ... hallmarks of a 'professional'.
My leaning is that this was a hired hit meant to send a message.

 

[NaanOfYourBusiness]

Something that I haven't seen discussed here is insurance policies. Certainly these people had a ton of life insurance. I know that unless there is a suicide clause built in to your policy, it is not valid if you kill yourself. I wonder if this plays in to the family's denial of LE's suicide theory at all?

I would have thought the opposite. That is, they would carry very little insurance.
Insurance is meant to ensure your loved ones are well cared for if you were to be gone suddenly and to pay for spike in expenses (eg. funeral, lawyer fees, etc.) to settle your affairs.
With their net-worth ($ billions), I wouldn't think they'd need additional insurance.

 

[Jealoushe]

In this scenario, the perpetrator was patient and well-organized ... hallmarks of a 'professional'.
My leaning is that this was a hired hit meant to send a message.

I agree with you.... I also feel it was a hit. With a big message.

 

[jillycat]

Something that I haven't seen discussed here is insurance policies. Certainly these people had a ton of life insurance. I know that unless there is a suicide clause built in to your policy, it is not valid if you kill yourself. I wonder if this plays in to the family's denial of LE's suicide theory at all?

Suicide clauses stipulate that there will not be a payout, and they typically have 2 year limits, meaning, if you die by suicide after two years of taking out the policy, there is payment. However, in group policies through employment, there is often no clause.

 

[FastLikeLight]

I agree with you.... I also feel it was a hit. With a big message.

Message to whom? Seem that nobody even can read it.

 

[JDG]

Just a quick one in response to those thinking it was a very large funeral. I presumed it was a memorial service - not the funeral. The funeral would be more private and religious in tone, not in a convention centre. I was under the impression that the coffins were empty. Famous people often have a large scale memorial service and a quiet funeral.

Under jewish law there are specific rules to follow with funerals - they have to be done very quickly so they are probably in a hurry to get the bodies released and a second autopsy done. Though usually I'd expect a memorial service to happen later, after the funeral. Maybe they just needed to do something in the wake of all the speculation and grief after this tragedy.

I have to say it was very moving watching the children and hearing Jonathan's words. It is very, very hard to imagine it being anything other than double murder after hearing it. So tragic and completely perplexing. At first I had thought it likely to be a murder suicide - we cannot know what goes on inside self contained introvert's heads - people who suddenly snap (though of course not most introverts), but hearing the family and understanding more about their ceremonies and family rituals, a close knit jewish family, and the manner of their deaths its just really hard to see it as anything other than a macabre, deeply disturbing and tragic double murder.

JMOO...

I agree with your statements regarding Jewish law and rules for funerals. In this case, however, the bodies weren't released from the coroner until Monday (as stated by LE) so there was just enough time for a secondary autopsy before this funeral service yesterday. Not sure why you would think they would bring in empty coffins? From the demeanour of the family, their extreme distress during the eulogies etc, it was a funeral. It was also noted as a funeral on the BenjaminsPark website.

There were at least three areas at the conference centre, friends of family, dignitaries and employees. Then, the general public could take the remaining seats.

The private burial took place after the service and shiva is private. Once again, the family are asking that their privacy be respected. JMO

 

[NaanOfYourBusiness]

Message to whom? Seem that nobody even can read it.

That's for LE to decipher.

Former FBI agent Brad Garret discusses the mystery surround the death of billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman:

https://youtu.be/gy3jspjrWM8

Garrett is convince this was a double-murder and meant to 'make a statement'.

"This didn't happen just because somebody is upset. This happened for a reason. This is sort of a payback on something that occurred.
And that's what the police .. they have to get to whatever that is."

 

[deugirtni]

When you have a ton of money, there is a good tax reason why you put lots of money into life insurance. The policy portion might cost a few thousands a year, but if you are wealthy, you can invest many thousands of dollars a year, beyond the policy costs, in order to pass money to your beneficiaries. The payout to your beneficiaries is taxed differently, if at all, doesn't go through probate, which saves the beneficiaries a lot of money.

If there is a tax specialist, or a rich person on board, I'm sure he or she can explain it better.

While that is all true.... about the taxed differently, probate, quick access.. I would imagine that life insurance, no matter which kind, would be very expensive, in fact VERY expensive, given the couple's age... and especially given H's health history (it was said during the funeral she had recently fought with throat cancer, in addition to years of other ailments). I can't speak to the cost, and they *were* billionaires, afterall, so maybe a cost that was worth it to them, but personally, I would doubt if it would be worth it to pay the outrageous cost of life insurance policies on elderly billionaires with health issues. jmo.

 

[JDG]

When you have a ton of money, there is a good tax reason why you put lots of money into life insurance. The policy portion might cost a few thousands a year, but if you are wealthy, you can invest many thousands of dollars a year, beyond the policy costs, in order to pass money to your beneficiaries. The payout to your beneficiaries is taxed differently, if at all, doesn't go through probate, which saves the beneficiaries a lot of money.

If there is a tax specialist, or a rich person on board, I'm sure he or she can explain it better.

Not sure they would even carry life insurance with a net worth in the Billions. A Billion dollars is a thousand Million dollars and I believe their net worth was around $4Billion.

Never heard that insurance was a tax benefit but am not wealthy nor a tax specialist. JMO

PS .....and keeping in mind that BS was proud to be thrifty. He had more than enough money for all of his family and then some, why would he pay to get more? JMO

 

[deugirtni]

That's for LE to decipher.

Former FBI agent Brad Garret discusses the mystery surround the death of billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman:

https://youtu.be/gy3jspjrWM8

Garrett is convince this was a double-murder and meant to 'make a statement'.

"This didn't happen just because somebody is upset. This happened for a reason. This is sort of a payback on something that occurred.
And that's what the police .. they have to get to whatever that is."

Yes, that was interesting. And suggestive of a 'hit' of some kind, not necessarily by the orchestrator(s) of the hit. Makes sense to me.

When one thinks about it, why would a murder suicide set up the bodies like that. If murder suicide, where the 'murderer' wanted to not appear like an animal after the fact, why not do it gently, where it could possibly be mistaken for 'double suicide', like... taking pills and going to sleep on a bed together. Unless the 'murderer' had already strangled the victim in a fit of sudden uncontrollable rage - and then felt he had to cover it up by making it appear to be a hit... but surely, that would have been difficult to stage by oneself, considering the 'sleeve' thing, and the staging of them together, etc. Ugh. jmo

 

[Jealoushe]

Message to whom? Seem that nobody even can read it.

To others involved. The fact that 33 is the unit looking after this says a whole lot too.

 

[Inthedetails]

Message to whom? Seem that nobody even can read it.

Message to Barry, imo.

I'm still on the fence, but if this was murder with a message, the message was for Barry - in other words, revenge.

:fence: My opinion from the fence

 

[deugirtni]

I can't imagine these intricate deaths being carried out without some evidence of a third person at the scene.

I don't know, but may have something to do with level of experience/professionalism?

 

[JDG]

His unwillingness to spend money on things he saw a unimportant, like a new car, shouldn't be surprising - many very wealthy people are frugal and some are even real cheapskates. The most notorious example is 19th century millionaire Hetty Green: when her son developed an infection in his leg, she refused to take him to a doctor because doctors charge for their services and she didn't want to pay. The infection worsened and eventually the leg had to be amputated. Just because you have lots of money doesn't mean you want to spend it.

Oh, I wasn't surprised. In the Toronto Life article, it stated that he's only driven 4 cars (as of a decade ago) in his life and was quite proud about it. We all know that cars depreciate so quickly and are a dreadful investment. If one is thrifty, as BS apparently was, he probably only drove second hand cars and let someone else take the first big depreciation when its driven off the lot. I am somewhat frugal (not cheap) by nature and do appreciate that trait in others. The first step to becoming well off is to NOT spend your money. JMO

 

[deugirtni]

Not sure they would even carry life insurance with a net worth in the Billions. A Billion dollars is a thousand Million dollars and I believe their net worth was around $4Billion.

Never heard that insurance was a tax benefit but am not wealthy nor a tax specialist. JMO

PS .....and keeping in mind that BS was proud to be thrifty. He had more than enough money for all of his family and then some, why would he pay to get more? JMO

Life ins isn't a tax benefit per se, but when received, it is not taxed as income, as most other windfalls would be.

 

[deugirtni]

Message to whom? Seem that nobody even can read it.

The people/person, whomever he/they might be, can read it.